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post #1 of 11 Old 08-10-2012, 04:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Recentlly, I visited a hi end audio stoe in Raleigh, NC and listened to some very high end equipment and I was unmoved by the sonic experience. The room had extensive room treatment. Is it possible to have a room so acoutically treated that it renders the room acoustically dead?
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post #2 of 11 Old 08-10-2012, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Recentlly, I visited a hi end audio stoe in Raleigh, NC and listened to some very high end equipment and I was unmoved by the sonic experience. The room had extensive room treatment. Is it possible to have a room so acoutically treated that it renders the room acoustically dead?

Certainly, although I would call it acoustically mistreated.


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post #3 of 11 Old 08-10-2012, 07:48 PM
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You've hit upon the single most important aspect of room treatment; addressing the room's issues with known best practices, however proceeding prudently while retaining a sense of appealing spaciousness.

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post #4 of 11 Old 08-11-2012, 01:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gbaby View Post

Recentlly, I visited a hi end audio stoe in Raleigh, NC and listened to some very high end equipment and I was unmoved by the sonic experience. The room had extensive room treatment. Is it possible to have a room so acoutically treated that it renders the room acoustically dead?

Yes. One might think that an anechoic chamber would be the best listening room, but it never seems to be so.

For openers all speakers are designed to be placed on or along or spaced away from a wall or in a corner. The bass won't be right if the room is excessively absorptive.
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post #5 of 11 Old 08-11-2012, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post


Yes. One might think that an anechoic chamber would be the best listening room, but it never seems to be so.
For openers all speakers are designed to be placed on or along or spaced away from a wall or in a corner. The bass won't be right if the room is excessively absorptive.

Agreed but it is hard to have too much bass trapping in a normal room.  I think the more common problem is that, in trying to treat the bass with many large absorbers, the consequence is that there is too much mid and treble absorbtion and the room sounds dead.  Putting a reflective skin on some/many of the bass traps will prevent that.


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post #6 of 11 Old 08-11-2012, 07:45 AM
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+1 -- or adding diffusors, or a logical mixture of both.

"After silence, that which best expresses the inexpressible, is music" - Aldous Huxley
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post #7 of 11 Old 08-11-2012, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Yes. One might think that an anechoic chamber would be the best listening room, but it never seems to be so.
.

but you don't need to succumb yourself to an anechoic chamber to achieve an anechoic speaker/listener response.

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The bass won't be right if the room is excessively absorptive.

that's usually a result of operator error.
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post #8 of 11 Old 08-12-2012, 07:16 PM
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I do recall that there is a variation of the Owens Corning rigid fiberglass with paper on one side. When making DIY panels, these can be used with the paper side facing into the room so that the highs don't get absorbed, making the room excessively dead.

So yes, it is easily possible to make a room dead if one goes overboard with absorption.

That being said, is that what the problem seemed to be in the room? It could have been other things such as the music being played, or poor speaker positioning.

On the other end of the spectrum, I once visited a Magnolia HiFi with a Klipsch THX Ultra 2 system in a "listening room". This room had a sofa, bare floor, bare walls, and a glass back. Horrid.

Still confused? Read "
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post #9 of 11 Old 08-13-2012, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanLW View Post

I do recall that there is a variation of the Owens Corning rigid fiberglass with paper on one side. When making DIY panels, these can be used with the paper side facing into the room so that the highs don't get absorbed, making the room excessively dead.

6mil plastic can be utilized as an outer face to the LF porous absorber to reflect specular energies (500hz+) back into the room - or any other form of scattering/diffusive treatment (MLS, RPG, etc) can also be applied as noted above.

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post #10 of 11 Old 08-13-2012, 11:43 AM
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I don't recall the numbers (703/704/705 etc.) but the fire-retardent Corning panels have a foil/paper covering on one side. You can indeed order either way.

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post #11 of 11 Old 08-15-2012, 08:35 AM
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Getting great imaging isnt that hard, just absorb everywhere.

Getting spaciousness isnt hard, go get some Bose 901's, or fill the room with reflective materials.

But getting a detailed image AND spaciousness is tricky.

Using LEDE / RFZ models seems to be a way to go to this end. An oversimplification of this can be described as:

Minimize (-20db or better) reflections in the first 10-20ms creating a Reflective Free Zone (RFZ). Then, introduce them (-10 -12db) creating a ISD termination.



Using ETC measurements, the reflective time / magnitude of reflections can be measured. The goal in this model is illustrated above.

I dont pretend to be presenting the full context and content of this line of thinking. The subject is complex and frankly, parts are beyond my understanding. But I have used this model and had good results with it.


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