Audio problems...try to solve this confusion!! - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 08-12-2012, 12:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a problem and I don't even know where to start to troubleshoot, or even ask, but you all seem brilliant and maybe this makes sense to someone?

I have a newer Sony Bravia (one with internet apps etc.). There is a digital cable box, DVD player, and WDTV fed into the TV; all audio signal runs through the TV and out one cable to a roughly 5 year old Yamaha 5.1 receiver. The problem is, when I run Netflix (the app on the TV), after a period of time (unclear how long, but at least a 30 min show) when returning to watch the cable box, the audio is not functional through the receiver. Audio works in netflix, but anything coming in from the cable box has no sound. More interestingly, if I just use the TV speakers, all audio is good. So Netflix TV app runs audio to receiver fine, cable box will run to TV speakers, but not pass through to receiver. I can't find any receiver setting this appears to be the problem as I ran through all I could find (radio still works). In testing, when this happens the WDTV which feeds into the TV and audios out to the receiver on the same wire also does not have functional audio. When all is left alone and turned off for a period of time, it functions as normal.

Do I have a TV problem? Receiver problem? Wiring problem? No clue where to even start...hoping someone has seen similar issues?

(Also, perhaps unrelated, now Netflix is lagging to the point of not playing movies)
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post #2 of 12 Old 08-12-2012, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by MDGuelker View Post

I have a problem and I don't even know where to start to troubleshoot, or even ask, but you all seem brilliant and maybe this makes sense to someone?
I have a newer Sony Bravia (one with internet apps etc.). There is a digital cable box, DVD player, and WDTV fed into the TV; all audio signal runs through the TV and out one cable to a roughly 5 year old Yamaha 5.1 receiver. The problem is, when I run Netflix (the app on the TV), after a period of time (unclear how long, but at least a 30 min show) when returning to watch the cable box, the audio is not functional through the receiver. Audio works in netflix, but anything coming in from the cable box has no sound. More interestingly, if I just use the TV speakers, all audio is good. So Netflix TV app runs audio to receiver fine, cable box will run to TV speakers, but not pass through to receiver. I can't find any receiver setting this appears to be the problem as I ran through all I could find (radio still works). In testing, when this happens the WDTV which feeds into the TV and audios out to the receiver on the same wire also does not have functional audio. When all is left alone and turned off for a period of time, it functions as normal.
Do I have a TV problem? Receiver problem? Wiring problem? No clue where to even start...hoping someone has seen similar issues?
(Also, perhaps unrelated, now Netflix is lagging to the point of not playing movies)

I'd suspect the receiver. Its surround decoder or something like it is cutting out after running for a while.

Of course check your wiring. BTW what sort of wire is coming out of the TV and to the receiver? Coax? HDMI?

If the receiver is failing then it should fail on other similar inputs such as the DVD player and the WDTV if they are providing the same flavors of audio (e.g. Dolby Digital and Dolby HD)

The lagging Netflix is probably due to your cable company. When I had that problem I verified it with some of the Speed tests on the web, and Comcast fixed it with a new cable modem. Everything lagged, including YouTube.
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post #3 of 12 Old 08-12-2012, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDGuelker View Post

I have a problem and I don't even know where to start to troubleshoot, or even ask, but you all seem brilliant and maybe this makes sense to someone?
I have a newer Sony Bravia (one with internet apps etc.). There is a digital cable box, DVD player, and WDTV fed into the TV; all audio signal runs through the TV and out one cable to a roughly 5 year old Yamaha 5.1 receiver. The problem is, when I run Netflix (the app on the TV), after a period of time (unclear how long, but at least a 30 min show) when returning to watch the cable box, the audio is not functional through the receiver. Audio works in netflix, but anything coming in from the cable box has no sound. More interestingly, if I just use the TV speakers, all audio is good. So Netflix TV app runs audio to receiver fine, cable box will run to TV speakers, but not pass through to receiver. I can't find any receiver setting this appears to be the problem as I ran through all I could find (radio still works). In testing, when this happens the WDTV which feeds into the TV and audios out to the receiver on the same wire also does not have functional audio. When all is left alone and turned off for a period of time, it functions as normal.
Do I have a TV problem? Receiver problem? Wiring problem? No clue where to even start...hoping someone has seen similar issues?
(Also, perhaps unrelated, now Netflix is lagging to the point of not playing movies)
I don't know what the problem might be, but why are you running everything through rhe TV? Why not run everything through the receiver and then just send the video to the TV? You are probably only getting downmixed stereo out from the TV. If you run everything through the receiver you can get the highest level of surround available in the program content. This wouldn't "solve" your problem, but it would eliminate it.

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post #4 of 12 Old 08-12-2012, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I agree that it sounds like the reciever, but wouldn't the cut-out happen for everything including Netflix...not everything after Netflix but Netflix still working? It also doesn't seem that it's having the same eventual cut-out when I use anything else for a prolonged period of time. I don't know enough to know what kind of signal is coming from each source so that's part of the struggle with how to troubleshoot and fix (or reset if needed).

The TV to receiver is connected via Optical cable...

I have it all hooked up through the TV because the TV is newer than the reciever and has HDMI ports that the reciever doesn't have...I figured I'd get a better picture with the HDMI cables into the TV and better sound with the one optical in rather than a series of other types of connections (coax, RCA, etc)...I guess I could audio out from the cable box, WDTV, xBox, and TV seperately but aren't certain signal types going to be better anyway (figured pass through optical would be pretty good.)? Also, much of what I use (Netflix, Hulu) originates in the TV anyway

...now that I say that, it seems that what doesn't originate from an outside source is what still works when I lose partial audio, in other words, audio that doesn't need to pass through the TV is still intact. Any diagnositic thoughts there?
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post #5 of 12 Old 08-12-2012, 06:46 PM
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In your case, I'd run the video to the TV, and run the audio to the receiver. The fact that the TV converts the analog sources to optical doesn't "scrub" the signal at all. In fact, it's one extra conversion step which could be degrading audio a little. It would be better to eliminate the "middleman" and feed all the audio to the receiver. For your analog audio sources, it would be preferrable to not digitize it just to have the receiver convert it back to analog.

Doesn't solve the bug with Netflix, though. I'd check on a firmware update for the TV if you insist on feeding it all your audio.

Still confused? Read "
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post #6 of 12 Old 08-13-2012, 05:32 AM
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Originally Posted by MDGuelker View Post

I agree that it sounds like the reciever, but wouldn't the cut-out happen for everything including Netflix...not everything after Netflix but Netflix still working? It also doesn't seem that it's having the same eventual cut-out when I use anything else for a prolonged period of time. I don't know enough to know what kind of signal is coming from each source so that's part of the struggle with how to troubleshoot and fix (or reset if needed).

One of the hidden agendas in this story is that the receiver can possibly be receiving audio in a number of different digital formats as you switch inputs and sources. It might be working fine, but when it starts playing Netflix, you use a format that the receiver cannot somehow reset itself from. And leads to a troubleshooting problem - if you power down a different item in the signal chain, turning which item back on restores the audio?
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The TV to receiver is connected via Optical cable...

How is the TV set up? Some TVs can be set to either PCM or bitstream (or something like bitstream). When you set the TV to PCM it simplifies life for your receiver at the cost of eliminating surround. While selecting PCM would not be a good permanent situation, what does setting the TV to PCM temporarily do to the problem?
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I have it all hooked up through the TV because the TV is newer than the reciever and has HDMI ports that the reciever doesn't have...I figured I'd get a better picture with the HDMI cables into the TV and better sound with the one optical in rather than a series of other types of connections (coax, RCA, etc)...I guess I could audio out from the cable box, WDTV, xBox, and TV seperately but aren't certain signal types going to be better anyway (figured pass through optical would be pretty good.)? Also, much of what I use (Netflix, Hulu) originates in the TV anyway

I have an AVR that handles HDMI but after experimenting with the various options I ended up running coax from the TV's audio output to the input of my receiver for PCM to obtain the easiest usage (WAF) and most reliable operation. Mt particular TV only puts out PCM - it does not support surround at all. Still works and sounds great! So your basic idea is not automatically wrong.
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post #7 of 12 Old 08-13-2012, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDGuelker View Post

I have it all hooked up through the TV because the TV is newer than the reciever and has HDMI ports that the reciever doesn't have...I figured I'd get a better picture with the HDMI cables into the TV and better sound with the one optical in rather than a series of other types of connections (coax, RCA, etc)...I guess I could audio out from the cable box, WDTV, xBox, and TV seperately but aren't certain signal types going to be better anyway (figured pass through optical would be pretty good.)? Also, much of what I use (Netflix, Hulu) originates in the TV anyway
What TV is this? If your TV only outputs "stereo", that's all you'll get to your receiver, no matter what the signal that is sent to the TV from the "source". If your cable box or your DVD player output Dolby Digital or DTS, those signals won't pass through the TV to the receiver.

Assuming your TV has multiple HDMI inputs, sending an HDMI signal to the TV is still possible, even when sending a digital audio signal to the receiver, (assuming your receiver has multiple digital inputs, co-ax and optical.) This would be the best of both worlds in terms of SQ and PQ, but it will be inconvenient for switching of audio and video. You'll need to switch the video at the TV and audio at the receiver. If you want the convenience of doing all the switching through the receiver, use component video along with a digital audio connection and run everything through the receiver. I highly doubt you'll be able to see the difference between component video and HDMI video. Most people can't tell the difference.
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

I have an AVR that handles HDMI but after experimenting with the various options I ended up running coax from the TV's audio output to the input of my receiver for PCM to obtain the easiest usage (WAF) and most reliable operation. Mt particular TV only puts out PCM - it does not support surround at all. Still works and sounds great! So your basic idea is not automatically wrong.

Really??? I can't believe you would accept this highly compromised audio setup. And for WAF??? Are you kidding me??? eek.gif Please tell me this is not your primary system. rolleyes.gif

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post #8 of 12 Old 08-14-2012, 07:41 AM
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It would make a lot of sense to get a new receiver that has HDMI IN / OUT capability. You are flogging a dead horse with the setup you have.

The optical connection from the TV to the receiver is audio only and 2-channel only; you may not be aware of that.

As for Netflix "lagging" that sounds like a lack of speed capability in your internet connection (or wireless router connection problem).
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post #9 of 12 Old 08-14-2012, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

What TV is this?

The one I watch the most. ;-)

Runs a lot of PBS and other documentary-oriented channels. One Blu Ray a week from Netflix.
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If your TV only outputs "stereo", that's all you'll get to your receiver, no matter what the signal that is sent to the TV from the "source".

Exactly, but not to worry. Its a 2.1 system.
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If your cable box or your DVD player output Dolby Digital or DTS, those signals won't pass through the TV to the receiver.

However it happens, all the media plays in ways that are satisfying to me.
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Assuming your TV has multiple HDMI inputs, sending an HDMI signal to the TV is still possible, even when sending a digital audio signal to the receiver, (assuming your receiver has multiple digital inputs, co-ax and optical.)

Been there, done that first.
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This would be the best of both worlds in terms of SQ and PQ, but it will be inconvenient for switching of audio and video.

Which is why I went the other way.
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You'll need to switch the video at the TV and audio at the receiver. If you want the convenience of doing all the switching through the receiver, use component video along with a digital audio connection and run everything through the receiver.

Why?
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I highly doubt you'll be able to see the difference between component video and HDMI video. Most people can't tell the difference.

Why not just take the PCM from the TV and route it through the receiver?

BTW, much of my listening is via headphones. I drive the headphones and receiver from the same PCM output on the TV. That way I can listen with the headphones (Senn RS 160) and not even turn on the receiver. There's a DAC between the TV set and the 'phones.
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Really??? I can't believe you would accept this highly compromised audio setup.

Hey fella, its mostly for watching documentaries on PBS and the History channel. Ever had the experience? ;-)

Of course serious audio listening happens elsewhere. It is mostly related to A/V production.
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And for WAF??? Are you kidding me??? eek.gif

Well WAF, and my own ease of use. I get to play with knobs-a-plenty with my 56 channel digital console. ;-)
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Please tell me this is not your primary system. rolleyes.gif
Craig

No, it is not my primary system. Primary systems are mostly used for A/V production.

I get the feeling that you are shocked by the idea that people use A/V to meet practical needs, as opposed to pure entertainment purposes. ;-)
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post #10 of 12 Old 08-15-2012, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by craig john View Post

I don't know what the problem might be, but why are you running everything through rhe TV? Why not run everything through the receiver and then just send the video to the TV? You are probably only getting downmixed stereo out from the TV. If you run everything through the receiver you can get the highest level of surround available in the program content. This wouldn't "solve" your problem, but it would eliminate it.
Craig

I like this response because Craig seems to be focused on the OP's questions/problems/confusions. To the OP, you need to understand that your gear allows many hook up choices. Most devices have "ins and outs" to pass the audio and video from one place to another. This choices can be confusing. If you think of your receiver/processor as a docking station for all of your gear, perhaps it will make things more clear to you. I'm only thinking of audio for this response because you mention audio problems. So, if you have a set top box (cable/sattalite), a blu-ray player, a DVD player...use the best "out", HDMI or optical/toslink, and hook to the receivers "in" to get proper sound. I have a TV with aps, like Pandora and YouTube. I do run an optical out of the TV and run it back to the processors optical in, even though I don't need to, because I have the same apps on the Blu-Ray player. I just like the format of the apps on the TV better than the apps on my Blu-Ray player...like the way Pandora is displayed and used. Also, your receiver should display exactly what format is playing...DTS...D.D.5.1...PLLII. You also might need to go in the set up menu of your devices to make sure they are set to output the highest audio format. Sending sound out of your TV back to your receiver may or may not produce the highest sound quality.

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post #11 of 12 Old 08-15-2012, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post


I like this response because Craig seems to be focused on the OP's questions/problems/confusions. To the OP, you need to understand that your gear allows many hook up choices. Most devices have "ins and outs" to pass the audio and video from one place to another. This choices can be confusing. If you think of your receiver/processor as a docking station for all of your gear, perhaps it will make things more clear to you. I'm only thinking of audio for this response because you mention audio problems. So, if you have a set top box (cable/satellite), a blu-ray player, a DVD player...use the best "out", HDMI or optical/toslink, and hook to the receivers "in" to get proper sound. I have a TV with aps, like Pandora and YouTube. I do run an optical out of the TV and run it back to the processors optical in, even though I don't need to, because I have the same apps on the Blu-Ray player. I just like the format of the apps on the TV better than the apps on my Blu-Ray player...like the way Pandora is displayed and used. Also, your receiver should display exactly what format is playing...DTS...D.D.5.1...PLLII. You also might need to go in the set up menu of your devices to make sure they are set to output the highest audio format. Sending sound out of your TV back to your receiver may or may not produce the highest sound quality.

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post #12 of 12 Old 08-15-2012, 09:59 PM
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whoops, sorry for #10 and #11 above. I somehow lost my spellchecker...got it back and corrected one word, and I guess because I haven't used the new AVS format much lately, quoted twice..me not right tonight.biggrin.gif

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