Mix Match setup configuration help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 7 Old 08-13-2012, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok so I have a very mix match speaker/amp setup and I would like some opinions about how to "properly" set these up.

Amps:
Pioneer VSX-D509S

Pioneer Elite VSX-21

Yamaha M4



Speakers:
Snell Acoustics Type B
Years in Production: 1990-1991
Original Price per Pair: $4490.00
Power Rating in Watts: 40-400
Frequency Response: 20Hz-20kHz
Impedance: 8 ohm
Sensitivity: 86 dB
Dimensions: 48.5x24.75x18.20
Woofer: 2x10"
Mid: 2 x 5"
Tweeter: 1"
Rear Tweeter: 3/4



KSI 6061-CSD Ceiling Mount Speakers
Frequency Response 50-20,000 HZ +/- 3db
Sensitivity 91 db (1w/1m)
Power Capacity, watts 50 RMS; 100 Program
Crossover Frequency 3500 HZ @ 6db/octave
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Nominal Dispersion At least 110° up to 6000HZ
Low Frequency Transducer 6-1/2" 1-1/2" voice coil
High Frequency Transducer 1" titanium dome
Tuning 8" passive radiator
Enclosure Type Optimally vented
Enclosure Dimensions 23 5/8"H x 23 5/8"W x 8"D


JWD 12" woofers x2 in custom boxes

Not sure on the specs of these


Optimus Pro CS3 Center channel speaker
(Not my favorite but it's what I have to work with)

KLH GFX550 Powered Subwoofer
Frequency Response 30 Hz - 180 kHz
Subwoofer Power 125 Watt
Woofer Size 10"


Sony SA-W101 Powered Subwoofer
Method SAW one-way speaker system built-in amplifier type 1 floor
Magnetically shielded,
Unit For ultra-low frequency: 16cm cone-type
Frequency Response
25Hz ~ 150Hz
Practical Maximum Output 60W
High-cut frequency 50Hz ~ 150Hz (continuously variable)
Voltage AC220V, 50Hz/60Hz
Power 45W
Dimensions Width 205 × height 500 × depth 350mm
Weight 12.5kg


KLH TW-09B "rear speakers" x 2

Product Features

2-way satellite speakers
3.625-inch dynamic woofer
0.625-inch liquid-cooled dome tweeter
Multidirectional tweeter module
Video shielded

Technical Details

Brand Name: KLH
Model: TW-09B
Speaker Amplification Type: Passive
Speakers Maximum Output Power: 100 Watts
Depth: 5 inches
Height: 6.38 inches
Width: 4 inches



Sony SS-SR 171 "rear speakers" x 2
32 W (8ohms at 1 kHz, 9% THD)



Any assistance on configuration, placement, or wiring would be appreciated. Let me know if anymore info is needed
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post #2 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 07:47 AM
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To recap:

 

2 AVRs (Pioneer VSX-D509S and Pioneer Elite VSX-21)

 

1 Amp (Yamaha M4)

 

2 sets of main speakers (Snell Acoustics Type B and JWD 12" woofers x2 in custom boxes)

 

1 center channel (Optimus Pro CS3)

 

2 sets of surround speakers (KLH TW-09B and Sony SS-SR 171)

 

2 subwoofers (KLH GFX550 and Sony SA-W101)

 

...misc (KSI 6061-CSD Ceiling Mount Speakers)  How many of these do you have?  If only one, is it used as a center channel?

 

So now that we have recapped, what is your end goal?

 

It appears that you have two systems.

 

Let us build system "A"

AVR: Pioneer VSX-D509S -->L&R Pre-Out to -->AMP: Yamaha M4 -->

Main Speaker: Snell Acoustics Type B.  I however, have no idea on how to Bi-Amp(will need more info here)

Surround Speakers: KLH TW-09B

Center channel: KSI 6061-CSD (if you only have one)

Subwoofer: KLH GFX550

 

System "B"  AKA "Leftovers"

AVR: Pioneer Elite VSX-21

Main speakers: JWD 12" woofers

Surround speakers: Sony SS-SR 171

Center channel: Optimus Pro CS3

Subwoofer: Sony SA-W101

 

I have no idea which AVR is better, nor do I know which AVR has the highest WPC.  Also, I do not know the WPC of the Yammy Amp.  However, those Snells need a decent amount of power.  Just make sure they are hooked up to either the AVR or Amp with the most power. 

 

Lastly, I do not know if the 'KSI 6061-CSD' speaker is to be used as a center channel or not, but if you have only one, you might as well use it as a center channel, positioning it may be difficult, but hey what else are you gonna do with it.

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post #3 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 08:21 AM
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+1

You really don't want to use multiple main speakers in one system because their outputs will not combine properly. You'll get all kinds of unpredictable, and everchanging if you move your head, frequency response anomalies.

If it were me, I'd use a short piece of speaker wire to reconnect the "low" and "high" inputs of the snells and not fool with biamping. Generally biamping is thought not to be worth the bother around here. I used to biamp my Maggies, and when I went to single wire I heard no difference. There's a lot of discussion around here about biamping but it comes down to this: If everything were perfectly aligned, biamping could double the power, yielding a 3 dB increase in SPL (which most folks would call one notch louder). As long as you are not distorting with one amp, the added power is meaningless. Moreover, the power content of the tweeter is going to be around 20 to 30 percent of total power, so you can never actually get double the power. The tweeter will never use that much power.
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post #4 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 12:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by underminded999 View Post

To recap:

2 AVRs (Pioneer VSX-D509S and Pioneer Elite VSX-21)

1 Amp (Yamaha M4)

2 sets of main speakers (Snell Acoustics Type B and JWD 12" woofers x2 in custom boxes)

1 center channel (Optimus Pro CS3)

2 sets of surround speakers (KLH TW-09B and Sony SS-SR 171)

2 subwoofers (KLH GFX550 and Sony SA-W101)

...misc (KSI 6061-CSD Ceiling Mount Speakers)  How many of these do you have?  If only one, is it used as a center channel?

So now that we have recapped, what is your end goal?

It appears that you have two systems.

Let us build system "A"
AVR: Pioneer VSX-D509S -->L&R Pre-Out to -->AMP: Yamaha M4 -->
Main Speaker: Snell Acoustics Type B.  I however, have no idea on how to Bi-Amp(will need more info here)
Surround Speakers: KLH TW-09B
Center channel: KSI 6061-CSD (if you only have one)
Subwoofer: KLH GFX550

System "B"  AKA "Leftovers"
AVR: Pioneer Elite VSX-21
Main speakers: JWD 12" woofers
Surround speakers: Sony SS-SR 171
Center channel: Optimus Pro CS3
Subwoofer: Sony SA-W101

I have no idea which AVR is better, nor do I know which AVR has the highest WPC.  Also, I do not know the WPC of the Yammy Amp.  However, those Snells need a decent amount of power.  Just make sure they are hooked up to either the AVR or Amp with the most power. 

Lastly, I do not know if the 'KSI 6061-CSD' speaker is to be used as a center channel or not, but if you have only one, you might as well use it as a center channel, positioning it may be difficult, but hey what else are you gonna do with it.

I have 2 of the KSI's. I'm not sure which AVR is better either but I do know the the Elite has left and right pre-outs as the D509S does not, so I believe I will use the elite as my main. Taken that I have 2 KSI's...how would that change the configuration? Both AVR's and the Yamaha have the same WPC. By the way, thanks thus far for your assistance, the snell's already sound 10 times better with the Elite as the pre-amp going into the Yamaha!
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post #5 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

+1
You really don't want to use multiple main speakers in one system because their outputs will not combine properly. You'll get all kinds of unpredictable, and everchanging if you move your head, frequency response anomalies.
If it were me, I'd use a short piece of speaker wire to reconnect the "low" and "high" inputs of the snells and not fool with biamping. Generally biamping is thought not to be worth the bother around here. I used to biamp my Maggies, and when I went to single wire I heard no difference. There's a lot of discussion around here about biamping but it comes down to this: If everything were perfectly aligned, biamping could double the power, yielding a 3 dB increase in SPL (which most folks would call one notch louder). As long as you are not distorting with one amp, the added power is meaningless. Moreover, the power content of the tweeter is going to be around 20 to 30 percent of total power, so you can never actually get double the power. The tweeter will never use that much power.

Thanks, I bridged the low and high after reading another response to a forum post, but my confusion arises on why the need for separate high and low posts...??? The Snell's weren't designed for bi-amping to begin with, from my understanding... My lack of "proper" audio setup knowledge may be showing here...
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post #6 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 05:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew Reid View Post

Thanks, I bridged the low and high after reading another response to a forum post, but my confusion arises on why the need for separate high and low posts...??? The Snell's weren't designed for bi-amping to begin with, from my understanding... My lack of "proper" audio setup knowledge may be showing here...

Fashion/marketing/lemmings. Biwiring and passive biamping have some currency in some audio circles. Folks around here are generally pretty skeptical. But why lose a sale if you can appeal to everybody by adding a set of binding posts?
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post #7 of 7 Old 08-14-2012, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Fashion/marketing/lemmings. Biwiring and passive biamping have some currency in some audio circles. Folks around here are generally pretty skeptical. But why lose a sale if you can appeal to everybody by adding a set of binding posts?

Aha! Makes sense....
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