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post #1 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 10:13 AM - Thread Starter
 
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I was wondering if anyone here in avs forum uses a better eq than the one built into "modern" receivers?.
I'm asking is because,i'm still not use to the eq that is built into so called "flag ship" 1121-k receiver, it sounds decent but it's missing some thing.
I know it has to do with room acoustics and such but on my last receiver that i had Elite 92 txh,the receiver had very nice depth to the sound and good low end. The 1121 k is missing the oomph and it sounds dull. So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?.

Thanks
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post #2 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 10:17 AM
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1121 is flagship for pioneer's standard line. Doesn't even begin to touch the entry level elite. So that explains your hiccup if u were coming from a 92 which was an elite

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post #3 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Oh okay,
but why does 1121-k sucks so much? compared to the elite?. Maybe i'm just picky. Thanks for the quick response.
Fyi i had the 1121-k for about two months now.
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post #4 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 01:09 PM
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The quality of the amps in them would be a drop off...processing capabilities...dac's...I'm not that familiar with pioneer's mcacc processing however if its like any other manufacturer the higher end ones use better and more precise algorithms

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post #5 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 02:55 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Yaomizzle that explains it.
I should of got the elite fix but the place here in california by third party wanted 129. an hour and labor fees depends what the problem and parts. ugh
The issue with my 92 is it won't come on, it comes on but shuts off when audio transmit.
Once again thanks for helping me to understand. I think for now on i'll stick to higher end.
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post #6 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 03:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

I was wondering if anyone here in avs forum uses a better eq than the one built into "modern" receivers?.
I'm asking is because,i'm still not use to the eq that is built into so called "flag ship" 1121-k receiver, it sounds decent but it's missing some thing.
I know it has to do with room acoustics and such but on my last receiver that i had Elite 92 txh,the receiver had very nice depth to the sound and good low end. The 1121 k is missing the oomph and it sounds dull. So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?.
Thanks

Doubtful.  First, you are introducing a limited and cheap box into the signal path and one that will EQ only 2 channels.  Second, the difference between the two AVRs that you describe is surprising unless something else, room, setup or speakers, has changed.  Finally, there are better room EQs than the MCACC that is built into the Pioneers.  For built-in EQs, some prefer the Audyssey MultEQ XT32 or Trinnov and these are not part of the Pioneer line.  For stand-alone, they get pretty pricey in comparison to the 1121K.

 

OTOH, mebbe what you want is not an EQ for making the sound more accurate by compensating for room acoustics but to impose your preferred taste in sound, in which case, any built-in multiband EQ might do.


Kal Rubinson

"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #7 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 03:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

1121 is flagship for pioneer's standard line. Doesn't even begin to touch the entry level elite. So that explains your hiccup if u were coming from a 92 which was an elite

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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

The quality of the amps in them would be a drop off...processing capabilities...dac's...I'm not that familiar with pioneer's mcacc processing however if its like any other manufacturer the higher end ones use better and more precise algorithms

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

baloney... the 1121 is a clone of an elite model... rolleyes.gif

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post #8 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 03:45 PM
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Digitalguy tthis is what I always say to my friends when they balk at my purchases "the problem with owning high end gear is you can never get away from it. Cause once you've had it everything else is just so subpar"

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post #9 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 03:52 PM
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HT EQ?? been running a Rane THX44 for many years also have the SSE22 for back channels never had any issues with these units ever. have to much system and to small of room the EQ can really help with these problems. very well built and can pick them up pretty cheap now
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post #10 of 24 Old 08-15-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Hi Kal,
i was wondering when you'll pop in. smile.gif I took a look at their web site Trinnov and your right the built in eq may have to do until i can save up and get a elite model down the road.
I didn't see any prices on their product so probably out of my budget area. smile.gif this hobby is fun to me but man it can break my bank if im not careful hehe
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post #11 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 05:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

Digitalguy tthis is what I always say to my friends when they balk at my purchases "the problem with owning high end gear is you can never get away from it. Cause once you've had it everything else is just so subpar"

Sent from my GT-P7510 using Tapatalk 2

rolleyes.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

Hi Kal,
i was wondering when you'll pop in. smile.gif I took a look at their web site Trinnov and your right the built in eq may have to do until i can save up and get a elite model down the road.
I didn't see any prices on their product so probably out of my budget area. smile.gif this hobby is fun to me but man it can break my bank if im not careful hehe

i wish trinnov wasn't so ungodly expensive... eek.gif i'd jump on that in a new york minute if the price was anywhere near "reasonable"...

"upgrading" to an elite isn't going to change things... regardless of what other "not as well informed posters" might think... just as a fwiw, i have owned both of the recent pioneer flagships (the susano and the 59), as well as a collection of other pioneer gear... amoungst a few other reasons, the inadequacy of mcacc (specifically, the inability to eq the area where all "home users" have the most issues) is what eventually drove me from the pioneer camp...

kal's comment about "preference" likely has a bit of truth to it...

ime... if you are looking for "better" automated eq, you need to look outside the pioneer line... if you are looking for "preference", then you'll need to tag a few more bucks into the budget in order to accomplish that...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #12 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 09:38 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

rolleyes.gif
i wish trinnov wasn't so ungodly expensive... eek.gif i'd jump on that in a new york minute if the price was anywhere near "reasonable"...
"upgrading" to an elite isn't going to change things... regardless of what other "not as well informed posters" might think... just as a fwiw, i have owned both of the recent pioneer flagships (the susano and the 59), as well as a collection of other pioneer gear... amoungst a few other reasons, the inadequacy of mcacc (specifically, the inability to eq the area where all "home users" have the most issues) is what eventually drove me from the pioneer camp...
kal's comment about "preference" likely has a bit of truth to it...
ime... if you are looking for "better" automated eq, you need to look outside the pioneer line... if you are looking for "preference", then you'll need to tag a few more bucks into the budget in order to accomplish that...

Good point,
so what would you recommend outside of pioneer line?. If i was gonna upgrade again with a budget of 1500 for performance?
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post #13 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 10:16 AM
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What is the difference between Trinnov and Auddyssey Multi EQ XT32?
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post #14 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 10:38 AM
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@ddigital...

to be honest, my a100 has turned me into an out and out denon ho'... the 4311 (same unit as a100 without cast iron feet, lol) is available well within your budget... if i was you, i would look in that direction... xt32 is the "real deal"... the rest of the feature set is essentially complete... robust amplification section... no odd behaviours...

i have blown through more than my share of hardware over the last several years... while i will no doubt entertain thoughts of a 4520 when they hit the streets, this is the first year in a LONG time that i won't buy a new avr/pre-pro... i think that says something (although i'm not sure what... redface.gif )....

then take the few hundred that is left over and save some more and buy the pro kit, and you can twiddle with the target curve to your heart's delight... smile.gif

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #15 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

. So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?.
Thanks

You need three Manley Massive Passives: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/MassivePassive/

"Ah, that's a joke, son." Foghorn Leghorn

Although you'd likely be able to dial in a sound you quite liked with $15K of outboard EQ . . .
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post #16 of 24 Old 08-16-2012, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?

I doubt a cheap equalizer is going to perform better than the one in your receiver. Incidentally, you do know that you can’t use an outboard equalizer unless you also have outboard amplification, right? Because there is no way to insert an equalizer in a receiver’s signal chain unless it has both pre-out and amp-in jacks. AFAIK, no one makes a receiver like that anymore.

As far as good built-in equalization goes, you might look into Yamaha’s Aventage line. They have 1/3-octave fully parametric EQ for all channels (not sure about the entry level models, but the upper-tier units do). With built-in equalization as powerful as that, you hardly need an outboard equalizer.

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post #17 of 24 Old 08-17-2012, 09:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

the 1121 is a clone of an elite model...

I just spent some time comparing the two user manuals, and found that they are pretty close, other than that the 1121 appears to use class AB power amps while the comparable Elite uses class D (switchmode) power amps. They both appear to use 9 channel graphic eqs, which is frankly a lot like the little Behringer that people are talking about. Behringer makes far better equalizers with a lot more capability than this bottom of the line model.
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post #18 of 24 Old 08-17-2012, 10:28 AM
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^^^

nah, amps are the same too (the cloned unit is a vsx-52)... smile.gif the "direct energy" pio amp is an a/b...

the elite gets another year of warrantee and a few little doo-dads...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

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post #19 of 24 Old 11-29-2012, 09:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

I was wondering if anyone here in avs forum uses a better eq than the one built into "modern" receivers?.
I'm asking is because,i'm still not use to the eq that is built into so called "flag ship" 1121-k receiver, it sounds decent but it's missing some thing.
I know it has to do with room acoustics and such but on my last receiver that i had Elite 92 txh,the receiver had very nice depth to the sound and good low end. The 1121 k is missing the oomph and it sounds dull. So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?.
Thanks


Hi,
I have done just that with my 5.1 setup at home. I use to have a receiver w/ basic built in EQ and then upgrade to a Cambridge 650R - sounds great for the price; a really audio quality aimed receiver but there is no EQ at all! Surprising for 21st century. There is Bass & Treble which is simply +/- dB from 100Hz for bass and 10k for treble BUT that doesn't work if you run DIRECT IN which I do as I run 5.1 Analogue direct in from my Cambridge 751BD Blu Ray.

I have implemented 2 x KlarkTeknik (Midas own this company now) DN360 Professional EQ's
http://www.klarkteknik.com/dn360.php

These are 30 band graphic EQ's (analogue). So 1/3 Octave and +/-6dB / +/-12dB settings you can switch between as well as bypass.
I find this is the best way to achieve the EQ you want for your PRIMARY listening preference.
I looked into other brands & even trialied a pair but the results were a lot of noise (not ground hum) but hiss. Analgoue introduces a lot of white noise & when putting between digital home theatres & components the results can be very poor & the background silence actually has slight background hiss. Unless you're prepared to pay for a good EQ.

The DN360's retail here in Australia at $1999 each at the time I purchased. I managed to score a deal directly at a pro audio event for floor stock they were needing to flog. They are right up there in the Professional audio world. This is cheap actually for Pro and are used in PA's around the globe, touring and also studios because of their high quality. In the pro world they are mass produced.

The result is incredibly low signal noise & hiss. i.e. you can't hear anything from 1 meter away and exceptional tone control. Best investment I have ever made to change my sound. I have absorbsion panels, bass traps etc but for my LEFT, CENTER & RIGHT speakers this is the best way to get even, flat response for all 3 channels when watching movies which was my goal.

How I have connected
Cambridge 751BD analogue RCA out to Cambridge 650R in.
650R analogue RCA out (5.1) SL&SR straight to Emotiva XPA-5 amp (no EQ on surrounds), Sub straight to Velodyne DD18 sub, L, C, R convert from RCA to XLR to 2 x DN360 EQ's. (only have 2 channels each so needed 2)
L, C, R XLR out from DN360 EQ's, inputted via XLR connections to XPA-5 amp.

In my previous home (where I can have it closer to reference level) I set the EQ for L, C, R to what is known as the X-curve but running pink noise through it and using a calibrated mic. Doing this 1 channel at a time.
http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_9_2/feature-article-curves-6-2002.html
for listening / reference level. Happy to discuss why I did this.


The result when demo-ing to myself and others was a very cinematic sound. Really crunchy not the annoying tinkling of glass piercing your ears normally found when winding the volume up without EQ. It literally sounded cinematic becuase speakers used in cinema typically roll off from 5k, 10k etc. Check their specs; they are often +/-10dB at say 12k. To me watching something at reference level lost the "loudness" and sounded FULL with incredible vocal breadth and depth instead of just twinkling clarity to the ear. You can get so much more out of your speakers than just buying new, more expensive ones. If your room isn't good you a good, flat response it will be colouring the sound and you won't be hearing what the studio mixer of the movie/music intended.

Sorry so long. Hoping someone else has played around like this here???

- - CA 751BD - - CA 650R - - Emotiva XPA-5 - - Velodyne DD18 - - Dali Concept 8's, Center, 1's - - Klark Teknik DN360 GEQs - - Van Den Hul, Kordz & Emotiva interconnects - - LG 60" FHD Plasma - -
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post #20 of 24 Old 11-30-2012, 06:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DDigitalGuy05 View Post

I was wondering if anyone here in avs forum uses a better eq than the one built into "modern" receivers?.
I'm asking is because,i'm still not use to the eq that is built into so called "flag ship" 1121-k receiver, it sounds decent but it's missing some thing.
I know it has to do with room acoustics and such but on my last receiver that i had Elite 92 txh,the receiver had very nice depth to the sound and good low end. The 1121 k is missing the oomph and it sounds dull. So if i got a 9 band eq from Behringer model minfbq will i get better sound from built in eq?.

Behringer's flagship eq product, the DEQ 2496 seems to be more to the point. The Minifbq is probably no more and may be less than what's in the receiver. There are several powerful eqs between the two in Behringer's product line, all of which are used productively by many audiophiles.
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post #21 of 24 Old 12-17-2012, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj View Post

@ddigital...
to be honest, my a100 has turned me into an out and out denon ho'... the 4311 (same unit as a100 without cast iron feet, lol) is available well within your budget... if i was you, i would look in that direction... xt32 is the "real deal"... the rest of the feature set is essentially complete... robust amplification section... no odd behaviours...
i have blown through more than my share of hardware over the last several years... while i will no doubt entertain thoughts of a 4520 when they hit the streets, this is the first year in a LONG time that i won't buy a new avr/pre-pro... i think that says something (although i'm not sure what... redface.gif )....
then take the few hundred that is left over and save some more and buy the pro kit, and you can twiddle with the target curve to your heart's delight... smile.gif

Chris- SInce you are a self-professed "Denon Ho".....

I would love the opportunity to own a Denon AVP, but, I can't really afford the price to purchase one. I am looking to upgrade from my old Lexicon DC-1 and want something with Audyssey XT32 that will also be in the same league as my Lexicon in SQ.

Do you know of any Denon receivers, that I could use strictly as a pre/pro into my existing amps, that would come close to the performance of an AVP?

I don't care about or need HDMi or switching capabilities; I run video directly to my projector.

David Lynch Current Equipment: Marantz AV8801, Proceed HPA3, Parasound HCA-1206, Aerial Acoustics LR5's (LCR), Aerial Acoustics LR3's (sides), RBH in-walls (rears), Seaton Submersive, Marantz VP15s1, 106" Carada BW screen, Oppo BDP-103.
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post #22 of 24 Old 12-17-2012, 08:47 AM
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For outboard EQs generally my knee jerk reaction would be that multiple parametric EQs should outperform graphics unless your room problems magically fit the graphic's center frequencies and Q. I haven't fiddled w outboard EQs in a while but was quite disappointed in the noise performance of an ART I had for PA in the past.

Generally analog EQ brings with it potential noise issues and external digital EQ automatically incurs whatever audible penalty may occur because of the additional AD to DA needed (although I'd expect the difference to be inaudible with only one additional generation using what's available today.)

My usual strictly tongue in cheek recommendstion is a stack of Manley Massive Passive EQs. Only around $5k each IIRC.
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post #23 of 24 Old 12-18-2012, 04:33 AM
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@david...

your best bet right now would be to see if you can find one of the remaining 4311's on closeout...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

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post #24 of 24 Old 12-18-2012, 08:01 AM
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What not get something such as a MiniDsp? Wouldn't that be a perfectly good EQ tool?
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