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Old 04-23-2015, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
I had the opposite result. I compared the TrueHD track on Star Trek Into Darkness to the DTS-HD MA track on Stargate. Now, I know they're different movies, but the TrueHD track smoked the DTS Master Audio track. Not saying TrueHD is better, just reporting my findings.

The Dark Knight and The Matrix are awesome in True HD, although I would be curious to see what those movies would sound like if they where mixed with DTS HD MA.


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Old 04-23-2015, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
The Dark Knight and The Matrix are awesome in True HD, although I would be curious to see what those movies would sound like if they where mixed with DTS HD MA.
If that were to happen, I think the DTS-HD MA track would be more identical to the original than the TrueHD track.

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Old 04-23-2015, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post
If that were to happen, I think the DTS-HD MA track would be more identical to the original than the TrueHD track.

Curious as to why you think that? Although I wouldn't doubt it.


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Old 04-26-2015, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
The Dark Knight and The Matrix are awesome in True HD, although I would be curious to see what those movies would sound like if they where mixed with DTS HD MA.
dts and dolby are different data compression codecs, not different methods of mixing soundtracks. A movie is mixed, creating a multichannel PCM soundtrack. Sometime later, that PCM track is put in a disc, almost always using data compression to save space. With lossless codecs such as TrueHD and dts-MA, the PCM coming out of the decoder is identical to the PCM that was fed into the encoder. In other words, if you start with the same soundtrack, it makes no difference which lossless codec is used.

btw, I think Sanjay is fooling with you a bit. Comparing two different movies says nothing about the lossless codecs involved. And, by definition, with the same input, the outputs of two lossless codecs must be the same. One cannot be "more identical" than the other.
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Old 04-27-2015, 03:35 AM
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Dolby TrueHD vs. DTS-HD Master Audio

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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
dts and dolby are different data compression codecs, not different methods of mixing soundtracks. A movie is mixed, creating a multichannel PCM soundtrack. Sometime later, that PCM track is put in a disc, almost always using data compression to save space. With lossless codecs such as TrueHD and dts-MA, the PCM coming out of the decoder is identical to the PCM that was fed into the encoder. In other words, if you start with the same soundtrack, it makes no difference which lossless codec is used.

btw, I think Sanjay is fooling with you a bit. Comparing two different movies says nothing about the lossless codecs involved. And, by definition, with the same input, the outputs of two lossless codecs must be the same. One cannot be "more identical" than the other.

So all soundtracks start out as PCM, and then are encoded in either Dolby T HD or DTS HD MA on the disc? Then the receiver re-encodes it back to PCM for output?


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Old 04-28-2015, 03:09 AM
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I don't know for sure, but I suspect not "encode to PCM", but rather decode the compression scheme (DD*/DTS*), and with the resultant data streams in memory, apply processing prior to output to amps.

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Old 04-28-2015, 11:30 AM
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no mixing or sound manipulation software can work directly on data compressed signals like DD or DTS, so in a recording situation, mostly you see folks using PCM, unless they're into the analog thing. The Sony one-bit system also is around, but there is AFAIK limited software to add EQ, reverb, etc etc etc and it's use is somewhat limited to audiophile "no enhancements" type recordings. I could be wrong abot that, though.

But, yeah, movies and music mostly are recorded mixed mastered and generally fooled with in PCM. If I wanted to add compression or reverb to DD or DTS sound file, I'd have to decode it to PCM so my software could understand it. Or I'd have to decode it to PCM so my DA converters could turn it into analog that I could feed into my (not in the sense that I'll ever own any of these devices) mulitkilobuck 60s and 70s outboard analog boxes, then that revised signal would come back to the AD converter to be turned into PCM, which could then be turned into DD or DTS if I so chose.
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Old 04-28-2015, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
So all soundtracks start out as PCM, and then are encoded in either Dolby T HD or DTS HD MA on the disc? Then the receiver re-encodes it back to PCM for output?


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It's pretty much a zipping and unzipping process. The PCM goes into the encoder where it gets zipped up to save space. The decoder does the unzip, turning it back into PCM.

With lossless codecs, the PCM coming out of the decoder is identical to the PCM fed into the encoder. With lossy codecs, like DD and DTS, some of the data removed in the encoding process is not restored by the decoder.

Why do they do this? In the early days, a PCM soundtrack was much too large to fit on a film strip or in the audio area of a DVD. Dolby and DTS developed lossy codecs to squeeze multichannel tracks onto the available media. Blu-rays have a lot more space and can hold a 7.1 PCM soundtrack. But, the studios would rather use the space for other purposes. Lossless codecs do less compression than their older lossy cousins, allowing studios to provide soundtracks matching the original PCM while still saving space for extras.
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Old 05-03-2015, 08:25 PM
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Early Blu-rays used LPCM as their soundtracks as the mastering tools were very immature (and that's also why they used MPEG-2). Early Blu-rays were also single layer, which meant there was a severe space crunch - it was hard to put a 1080p movie and a 7.1 soundtrack without compromising the video to fit it all, which was why early Blu-Ray didn't go so well compared to alternatives. It's why a lot of early Blu-rays got reissued years later.

These days it doesn't matter as the tools are mature. You cannot compare two different movies as their mastering makes a whole pile of difference and it in no way reflects which method is better.
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Old 05-05-2015, 04:36 AM
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I think this is a fairly meaningless issue. Any differences in sound could be ascribed just as accurately to differences in the masters than any audible differences in the codecs. I would view it as very very unimportant.
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Old 05-06-2015, 06:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FMW View Post
I think this is a fairly meaningless issue. Any differences in sound could be ascribed just as accurately to differences in the masters than any audible differences in the codecs. I would view it as very very unimportant.
Either that or get a movie that is mastered with both HD codecs. Top Gun has both codecs on it's BD.
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Old 05-06-2015, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DRC72 View Post
Either that or get a movie that is mastered with both HD codecs. Top Gun has both codecs on it's BD.
If memory serves, the different Top Gun encodes come from different masters. So, it's not a meaningful comparison.
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
If memory serves, the different Top Gun encodes come from different masters. So, it's not a meaningful comparison.
Would make sense. Both are lossless codecs - they really should come out the same either way otherwise there's a problem with your system somewhere. The only reason a disc would be mastered with both is if they just copied the mastered audio track across to save encoding time.

This is really like arguing over whether FLAC sounds better than ALAC or PCM WAV.
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Old 05-07-2015, 04:10 AM
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Dolby TrueHD vs. DTS-HD Master Audio

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post
If memory serves, the different Top Gun encodes come from different masters. So, it's not a meaningful comparison.
Yeah the DTS track is 6.1 compared to the 5.1 Dolby track.


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