Digital S/PDIF 3.5mm stereo to digital coaxial RCA cable. - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 36 Old 11-09-2012, 10:30 PM - Thread Starter
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my setup goes....

Asus Xonar DX S/PDIF digital 3.5mm stereo jack output - - - - - > > > > > Denon 1712 coaxial digital RCA jack input (FYI, optical digital TOSlink input is already taken by WDTV Live)

I could use this cable: http://www.infinitecables.com/pop-usa/av_dig-35mm.htm
but it's expensive.

Since this is the only one I can find but is expensive, is there a less expensive cable like this that I'm misisng?

TIA

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #2 of 36 Old 11-10-2012, 05:01 AM
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36¢ and just use one of your RCA cables.
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post #3 of 36 Old 11-10-2012, 08:24 PM - Thread Starter
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thx i thought specialized digital cables were needed to pass digital signals from digital output to digital input ....

do i need that mono plug or a stereo plug?

as for the rca cables, should i use a digital coaxial rca cable or will a standard rca cable be fine?

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #4 of 36 Old 11-10-2012, 09:37 PM
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You need a mono plug. Any standard RCA cable will be fine. A video cable will be best, since it is 75-ohm, which is spec'd for digital cables also. But you could use a metal coat-hangar for the wire and it will sound perfect. It has been done and documented!
No need for special cables. That is just marketing-speak. Almost frosts me as much as special "subwoofer" cable. I mean, really?rolleyes.gif
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post #5 of 36 Old 11-11-2012, 02:14 AM - Thread Starter
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i have a gold plated RG59/U 75ohm rca cable but it's too short so i need to buy a longer one at monoprice.

as for a video cable being the best, since it is 75-ohm, do i need to buy the RG6/U cable or can i just buy the RG59/U cable?

and since i'm passing digital audio, I wonder if the two make a noticeable difference in terms of noise interference protection because isn't RG59/U for analog cable TV and RG6/U is for digital cable signals and satellite signals?

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #6 of 36 Old 11-11-2012, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si View Post

... I wonder if the two make a noticeable difference in terms of noise interference protection because isn't RG59/U for analog cable TV and RG6/U is for digital cable signals and satellite signals?

No, cables don't now a digital signal from an analog. To the cable both signals are just electrons passing through. Digital or analog designed is >99% marketing hype and the difference is just to separate you from your $s.

Just to add: You seem to believe (as most do) that a digital signal requires a higher quality cable than an analog signal. It is actually just the opposite. Digital is far more tolerant than analog.
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post #7 of 36 Old 11-11-2012, 05:31 AM
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thx i thought specialized digital cables were needed to pass digital signals from digital output to digital input ...

You have to worry about the cable's signal-handling format onl if the cable is handling very, very high power (e.g. speaker cables), very sensitive signals (e.g. phono cartrdige), very high frequencies (e.g. VGA or HDMI) or very long (e.g. 30 feet or more).

For typical home audio purposes, it is safe for example to use RCA cables and 3.5 mm cables (headphones) interchangeably.
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do i need that mono plug or a stereo plug?

Frankly, for digital audio, either can work.
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as for the rca cables, should i use a digital coaxial rca cable or will a standard rca cable be fine?

For typical situations, first try to use what you've got. On many occasions I've sucessfully connected digital to a 3.5 mm jack to a portable device or from a a 3.5 mm jack on a PC using a standard 2x RCA to one stereo headphone jack cable. I just tried both RCA plugs until I found one that worked (usually left or black) and taped the other one up so that it wouldn't short out.

I've measured the performance of several systems built both ways, once with the absolutely correct impedance-matched cables, and once with whatever the cat drug in, and the results were the same. It's digital and digital tends to level performance out to a very high standard.
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post #8 of 36 Old 11-11-2012, 09:12 AM
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thx i thought specialized digital cables were needed to pass digital signals from digital output to digital input ....

There is no such thing as a digital cable.
Conductors carry current...they don't know what that current represents.
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post #9 of 36 Old 11-11-2012, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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thanks all i learned something everyday here. very useful to know for other possible future applications

but sorry if anyone's offended here if it seems my decision is going against your advice......because i'm organizing the cables in a very tight conditions, i may need to bend the cables at sharp angles to get them to where I want them to go and looking nice (instead of sticking out) and after trying out my rg59/u cable and judging from the appearance of the rg59 cables on monoprice and comapring its appearance to that of mine, the rubber conductor ends would seem very easy to 'pop out' if bent too sharp an angle so i opted to go with the rg6, the pictures showing the ends of the cable seem more durable and rugged to withstand tight spaces and angles...

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #10 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 03:58 AM
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RG59 is a lot more flexible then RG6
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post #11 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 04:34 AM
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RG59 is a lot more flexible then RG6

And a plain old RCA cable works as well in reasonable lengths, and can be far more flexible than either.
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post #12 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 03:58 PM - Thread Starter
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I found this: 6ft RCA Plug/Plug M/M Cable - Black. it's the shortest one i can find and i don't know if they are 75ohm.

if it only comes with silver instead of gold, can i use the silver plated one with the gold plated version of the 3.5mm stereo-to-RCA adapter?

would this work just as well as rg59/u rg6/u cables @ 6 ft?

and....

just to be sure all i need is that 3.5mm stereo to rca adapter and an old rca cable in order to pass digital audio from s/pdif 3.5mm digital output to denon 1712 digital coaxial input?? have anyone actually tried this before or is this in theory?

Paul H from monoprice said this: For this, it would take a mini optical to plug into the digital on the computer like PID 1556 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10229&cs_id=1022902&p_id=1556&seq=1&format=2&Rep=paul and then a converter PID 2948 http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10423&cs_id=1042302&p_id=2948&seq=1&format=2&Rep=paul and then a cable like the 619 to go from the converter to the digital RCA input on the receiver

he also said they do know the difference between a digital and analog signal.

i guess i will try some old cables and adapter lying around and test to see if it's true. if not, i will be careful for asking advice on these forums again. smile.gif

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #13 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 04:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si View Post

where in monoprice can i find a plain old single RCA cable, a video one if possible? all i find are the high quality rg56/u or rg6/u cables. they are thick so when i bend the cable it's possible the lip covering the end may 'pop out' as well.

Look under "2-RCA Audio Cables", and avoid the ones with the word "premium" in their names.
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post #14 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Look under "2-RCA Audio Cables", and avoid the ones with the word "premium" in their names.
but why 2-rca? i'm only using one single wire?

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #15 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 05:42 PM - Thread Starter
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i got some old rca cables and a rg59/u cable lying around and a 3.5mm stereoto RCA adapter..i'll test them first to see if it works but it'll be quite awhile before i unpack the stuff.

if it doesn't work then i'll buy the mini toslink, coax converter, and rg59 cable...

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #16 of 36 Old 11-12-2012, 05:55 PM
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I have not used this card but looking quickly at its make up, I think you are on the wrong path there smile.gif. The combo jack that you are trying to use on the card is Toslink (optical) and microphone/analog *input*. It does not have coax S/PDIF. So the cable you are building does not work. Your only path is the Toslink adapter. See: http://www.asus.com/Multimedia/Audio_Cards/Xonar_DX/#specifications

"1 x S/PDIF out (1 x Optical (Toslink)/(combo with analog in))"

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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post #17 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stealth3si View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Look under "2-RCA Audio Cables", and avoid the ones with the word "premium" in their names.
but why 2-rca? i'm only using one single wire?

I think that by "2-RCA", they mean cable with an RCA connector at each end.
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post #18 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 05:56 AM
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he also said they do know the difference between a digital and analog signal.

How? Does the cable speak to him?
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post #19 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 06:12 AM - Thread Starter
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forget it man then i might as well just plug the 6ft Optical Toslink to Mini Toslink M/M 5.0mm OD Molded Cable into the Denon's optical input and call it day...i guess i'll hook up the WDTV Live's HDMI cable to the receiver to pass its digital audio.

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #20 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 07:47 AM
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Punctuation, try it sometime.
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post #21 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

How? Does the cable speak to him?

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Originally Posted by SAM64 View Post

Punctuation, try it sometime.

Nothing to contribute again? rolleyes.gif
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post #22 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 09:08 AM - Thread Starter
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well guess what i just learned that the premium cable high quality cables are better shielded...lot less rf/noise interference..so if you're like getting noise interference like radio noises, then the more shileding the better even tho technically any old rca cable would work but how long until you get noise?

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #23 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 09:55 AM
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Nothing to contribute again? rolleyes.gif

nothing to contribute, again?
Still gunning that post count I see.
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post #24 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Stealth3si View Post

well guess what i just learned that the premium cable high quality cables are better shielded...lot less rf/noise interference..so if you're like getting noise interference like radio noises, then the more shileding the better even tho technically any old rca cable would work but how long until you get noise?

where do you get this stuff from?
Coax cables are inherently shielded, otherwise they wouldn't be coaxial cable.
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post #25 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 10:44 AM
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well guess what i just learned that the premium cable high quality cables are better shielded.

That sounds to me like an advertising claim that was designed to impress small boys.

Reality is that excellent shielding isn't a panacea, it frequently provides no actual audible performance advantage, and that cables with outstanding shielding (e.g. Quad-shielded RG-6) are sold for pennies a foot.

I say that excellent shielding is not a panacea because on the best day of its life, shielding primarily addresses only a fraction of the noise pickup problem. Cables pick up noise from both electromagnetic and electrostatic fields, but shielding primarily addresses only electrostatic fields. For example, shielding has no effect on noise due to ground loops and most other grounding problems.

I say that excellent shielding generally provides no actual audible performance advantages because environmental noise pickup is not a serious audible problem for most interconnects. This is particularly true for digital interconnections, which are becoming more and more prevalent. Most people who are setting up systems today are interconnecting them with digital links like 100BTX digital networking and HDMI. Noise has minimal effects on digital interconnects unless the noise is so great that it actually overcomes the signal. Moderate contamination of the signal is rejected at the receiving end.

Another example is speaker cabling, where the signal is so large and robust that it has large amounts of inherent rejection of outside noise sources.

Finally, the unbelievable pricing of high end cabling is belied by the simple fact that commodity cables with incredible shielding such as quad-shielded RG6 sell for literally pennies per foot.

Nice try, but no cigar!
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post #26 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 10:56 AM
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Still gunning that post count I see.
Yeah... okay. 10 more years (or sooner) and you will catch up. biggrin.gif
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post #27 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 11:24 AM
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Yeah... okay. 10 more years (or sooner) and you will catch up. biggrin.gif

Nah, I actually have a life.
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post #28 of 36 Old 11-13-2012, 11:27 AM
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Another example is speaker cabling, where the signal is so large and robust that it has large amounts of inherent rejection of outside noise sources.

this myth get repeated often.
If noise isn't induced into speaker cable, because of the signal level, as is often claimed. Why doesn't induced noise show up when the volume is low, or during quiet passages, or when the amplifier is off?

Noise isn't induced into speaker cables because of the very low impedance of the circuit....that's all.
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post #29 of 36 Old 11-14-2012, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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where do you get this stuff from?
Coax cables are inherently shielded, otherwise they wouldn't be coaxial cable.
that's why i'm getting the high quality cable - it's coxial = shielding = more shielding > rca. i have ots of rca cables. they're not coaxial and there fore are more susepctible to noise rf interference. i say this from first hand experience.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

That sounds to me like an advertising claim that was designed to impress small boys.
Reality is that excellent shielding isn't a panacea, it frequently provides no actual audible performance advantage, and that cables with outstanding shielding (e.g. Quad-shielded RG-6) are sold for pennies a foot.
I say that excellent shielding is not a panacea because on the best day of its life, shielding primarily addresses only a fraction of the noise pickup problem. Cables pick up noise from both electromagnetic and electrostatic fields, but shielding primarily addresses only electrostatic fields. For example, shielding has no effect on noise due to ground loops and most other grounding problems.
I say that excellent shielding generally provides no actual audible performance advantages because environmental noise pickup is not a serious audible problem for most interconnects. This is particularly true for digital interconnections, which are becoming more and more prevalent. Most people who are setting up systems today are interconnecting them with digital links like 100BTX digital networking and HDMI. Noise has minimal effects on digital interconnects unless the noise is so great that it actually overcomes the signal. Moderate contamination of the signal is rejected at the receiving end.
Another example is speaker cabling, where the signal is so large and robust that it has large amounts of inherent rejection of outside noise sources.
Finally, the unbelievable pricing of high end cabling is belied by the simple fact that commodity cables with incredible shielding such as quad-shielded RG6 sell for literally pennies per foot.
Nice try, but no cigar!
thanks. but i wasn't particualrly impressed by what i learned....granted it doesn't improve performance but doesn't it reduce RF interference which intorduce hte possiblity of other unwatned noises. i use to hear people talking from my subwoofer and speakres...like a radio ghost just passed by.

My 5.1 audio system bedroom setup:
10'1" L x 9'11" D x 8' H. One corner opens up to a space (for the door to open/close) that measures 2'4" L x 2'11" D x 8' H.
AVR: Denon 1712
Fronts: Pioneer SP-BS41-LR
Center: Pioneer SP-C21
Rear: Pioneer SP-BS21-LR
Subwoofer: SVS PC12-NSD
TV: Samsung UN46EH6070...
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post #30 of 36 Old 11-14-2012, 04:32 AM
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that's why i'm getting the high quality cable - it's coxial = shielding = more shielding > rca. i have ots of rca cables. they're not coaxial and there fore are more susepctible to noise rf interference. i say this from first hand experience.
thanks. but i wasn't particualrly impressed by what i learned....granted it doesn't improve performance but doesn't it reduce RF interference which intorduce hte possiblity of other unwatned noises. i use to hear people talking from my subwoofer and speakres...like a radio ghost just passed by.

(almost) All RCA cables (low level) are coaxial/shielded. Also a digital signal is not susceptible to interference (RF added) noise the same way an analog is.
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