5.1 Dolby Digital output from SPDIF/Optical port? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 09:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I have the SPDIF audio optical going from my samsung UN46ES7500 to my 5.1 surround sound receiver... it is not outputing 5.1 Dolby Digital, only Stereo Dolby Digital....does this even support 5.1 dolby digital? I went under the audio settings and no luck.... and yes the programming is being broadcasted in 5.1 DD

PLEASE HELP!

No 5.1 DD being output OTA, Amazon video or Netflix....very frustrating....

and don't tell me 5.1 DD only works under HDMI output...I need 5.1 in optical output....eek.gif
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post #2 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 09:37 AM
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A lot of TV sets do not output DD multi-channel via the optical output of the TV.

My Sony TV outputs multi-channel via optical for OTA broadcasts when available, but I heard that Samsung TVs do not do so.
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post #3 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 09:42 AM - Thread Starter
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that stinks....how am I supposed to watch movies from Netflix or Amazon prime from this smart tv IN STEREO MODE? Thats unacceptable...
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post #4 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 10:16 AM - Thread Starter
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I just got off the chat with samsung rep..here, they gave me this link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/SupportOwnersFAQPopup.do?faq_id=FAQ00000636&fm_seq=804

they told me that the spdif/optical audio output on the SAMSUNG UN46ES7500 does indeed support 5.1 dolby digital output...

we shall see!

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post #5 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 10:45 AM
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You can also use the analog (stereo left and right) output of your TV and plug it into your receiver. At least this way you can get the old Dolby Pro Logic. Not nearly as good as Dolby Digital, but beats the hell out of 2-channel stereo for movies! Also, many new channels broadcast in DD 2.0. I hate having the center channel silent during news. If you have the analog cables hooked up, you can then get the news in Dolby Pro Logic where most of the voice will come from the center channel.

The only advice I can give is to thoroughly go through all your menu's on the TV and see if there's anything you can turn-on for DD 5.1. Good luck!

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post #6 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
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thanx bro....but the days of upmixing stereo signals to pro logic 2 are over...the sound's quality is pretty lame too...I want the REAL DEAL.....

Anyway, I found out what the real problem was....On my 2012 samsung smart TV (UN46ES7500), it does support output 5.1 audio via PCM or DD, whether on Optical/SPDIF or HDMI outputs....but heres the catch, The entire SmartHub User Interface only supports 2 channels...yes even for netflix and amazon video streaming services....what a rip off.....

Here's the SmartHub Fiasco Thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1438853/official-samsung-smart-hub-fiasco-thread
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post #7 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 01:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

I have the SPDIF audio optical going from my samsung UN46ES7500 to my 5.1 surround sound receiver... it is not outputing 5.1 Dolby Digital, only Stereo Dolby Digital....does this even support 5.1 dolby digital? I went under the audio settings and no luck.... and yes the programming is being broadcasted in 5.1 DD

PLEASE HELP!

No 5.1 DD being output OTA, Amazon video or Netflix....very frustrating....

and don't tell me 5.1 DD only works under HDMI output...I need 5.1 in optical output....eek.gif

The information that you seek is probably in the User's manual which (hint, int) is probably online and you could have read it before you bought the equipment.

Modern AVR's are set up to pass HDMI from the source though them and in the process decode audio directly from the source, not an output of the TV. This is the standard way to avoid the problems you are having.
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post #8 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 02:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

I just got off the chat with samsung rep..here, they gave me this link:

http://www.samsung.com/us/support/SupportOwnersFAQPopup.do?faq_id=FAQ00000636&fm_seq=804

they told me that the spdif/optical audio output on the SAMSUNG UN46ES7500 does indeed support 5.1 dolby digital output...

we shall see!



OK, I took a look at that Samsung link. For OTA signals, you can get DD 5.1 via optical when it is available. Good so far, so you can get multichannel audio out of your TV for OTA signals.


"After you have connected the Digital Optical out jack on your TV to a Digital Optical in jack on your Home Theater System, you should hear sound output from the TV’s Optical jack. You do not need to make any additional adjustments. When the TV displays a DTV(air) signal that is carrying the , the TV sends 5.1 channel sound to the Home Theater."



Now the bad part. With any HDMI signal connected to the TV you can not output DD 5.1 audio via optical. Only 2 channel audio is available.


"If the source is a digital component such as a DVD player, and you have connected the source and the TV using HDMI, and then connected the TV to your Home Theater using Digital Optical connections, you will hear only two channel sound from the Home Theater. Your TV can not transmit 5.1 channel audio from an HDMI digital source through the Optical connection."


That is the difference between my Sony and your Samsung. I can get DD 5.1 via optical when any HDMI equipment is connected to the TV. DTS audio does not work, so I connect direct from my Blu-ray player to the AVR via optical for that type of decode.

Funny thing is I did not research this issue before I bought my TV earlier this year. I guess that I lucked out on that.

What I did not luck out on was the ROVI TV Guide. ROVI is dropping the service for OTA signals.
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post #9 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 02:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

The information that you seek is probably in the User's manual which (hint, int) is probably online and you could have read it before you bought the equipment.
Modern AVR's are set up to pass HDMI from the source though them and in the process decode audio directly from the source, not an output of the TV. This is the standard way to avoid the problems you are having.
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

OK, I took a look at that Samsung link. For OTA signals, you can get DD 5.1 via optical when it is available. Good so far, so you can get multichannel audio out of your TV for OTA signals.
"After you have connected the Digital Optical out jack on your TV to a Digital Optical in jack on your Home Theater System, you should hear sound output from the TV’s Optical jack. You do not need to make any additional adjustments. When the TV displays a DTV(air) signal that is carrying the , the TV sends 5.1 channel sound to the Home Theater."
Now the bad part. With any HDMI signal connected to the TV you can not output DD 5.1 audio via optical. Only 2 channel audio is available.
"If the source is a digital component such as a DVD player, and you have connected the source and the TV using HDMI, and then connected the TV to your Home Theater using Digital Optical connections, you will hear only two channel sound from the Home Theater. Your TV can not transmit 5.1 channel audio from an HDMI digital source through the Optical connection."
That is the difference between my Sony and your Samsung. I can get DD 5.1 via optical when any HDMI equipment is connected to the TV. DTS audio does not work, so I connect direct from my Blu-ray player to the AVR via optical for that type of decode.
Funny thing is I did not research this issue before I bought my TV earlier this year. I guess that I lucked out on that.
What I did not luck out on was the ROVI TV Guide. ROVI is dropping the service for OTA signals.

the whole point is this.... smart hub interface audio is only being output as 2 channel stereo...no matter what kinda connection you have....samsung needs to fix this with a firmware for people like us that use netflix and amazon video...we need 5.1 surround sound...end of story...read my other thread for details....
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post #10 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 03:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post


the whole point is this.... smart hub interface audio is only being output as 2 channel stereo...no matter what kinda connection you have....samsung needs to fix this with a firmware for people like us that use netflix and amazon video...we need 5.1 surround sound...end of story...read my other thread for details....


I understand your point of view. However, I assume it is more than a firmware issue.
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post #11 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 05:35 PM
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If the television cannot decode and remix the multichannel inptu (pretty high end stuff for TVs), it could never play the soundtrack with the dialog in it, since the dialog is in the center channel, not the left and right channels that the TV has. So in the HDMI handshake the TV tells the connected device it has to receive stereo and the connected device automatically sends a stereo mix. There is not a way to send two different left and right channels (one in stereo so the dialog gets mixed in and one with the original multichannel left and right) over HDMI. SO the TV gets a stereo mix via HDMI and that's all it can pass on. That's how mine works. So you'd need to connect HDMI directly to the receiver and let the receiver pass the video to the TV via HDMI (or use a separate video output to go to the TV and lose hi def video).
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post #12 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 06:03 PM
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Hi JHAz,

I think you misunderstand the problem (as I did, until I did some googling).

There is no HDMI involved. Everything is inside the Samsung TV. Unlike my first impresion, "Smart Hub" is a piece of software inside the TV that can receive NetFlix and Amazon from the Internet and play them on the TV. Although the TV receives DD5.1 from NetFlix, and the optical link can transmit DD5.1 to the AVR, the "Smart Hub" software is in the middle, down-converting the DD5.1 to stereo. There is no good reason that the software would go out of its way to down-convert, rather than just passing DD5.1 through.

I suspect that problem arises because the Smart-Hub software developers assumed the customer was using the TV's speakers, and therefore converts everything down to stereo. But that's just my conjecture, having been involved in similar corporate blunders.
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post #13 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi JHAz,
I think you misunderstand the problem (as I did, until I did some googling).
There is no HDMI involved. Everything is inside the Samsung TV. Unlike my first impresion, "Smart Hub" is a piece of software inside the TV that can receive NetFlix and Amazon from the Internet and play them on the TV. Although the TV receives DD5.1 from NetFlix, and the optical link can transmit DD5.1 to the AVR, the "Smart Hub" software is in the middle, down-converting the DD5.1 to stereo. There is no good reason that the software would go out of its way to down-convert, rather than just passing DD5.1 through.
I suspect that problem arises because the Smart-Hub software developers assumed the customer was using the TV's speakers, and therefore converts everything down to stereo. But that's just my conjecture, having been involved in similar corporate blunders.

Ahhh. Silly software designers must not have AVRs . . .
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post #14 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi JHAz,
I think you misunderstand the problem (as I did, until I did some googling).
There is no HDMI involved. Everything is inside the Samsung TV. Unlike my first impresion, "Smart Hub" is a piece of software inside the TV that can receive NetFlix and Amazon from the Internet and play them on the TV. Although the TV receives DD5.1 from NetFlix, and the optical link can transmit DD5.1 to the AVR, the "Smart Hub" software is in the middle, down-converting the DD5.1 to stereo. There is no good reason that the software would go out of its way to down-convert, rather than just passing DD5.1 through.
I suspect that problem arises because the Smart-Hub software developers assumed the customer was using the TV's speakers, and therefore converts everything down to stereo. But that's just my conjecture, having been involved in similar corporate blunders.

Exactly, could not have said it better....Also thats what the samsung customer rep said....he told me that the entire smart hub user interface is only outputing in 2 channels(stereo) both via HDMI or SPDIF/Optical, no difference either way. These are the FACTS... SADLY frown.gif

But if I was Amazon or Netflix I would be upset that my customers could not enjoy the full 5.1 sourround sound experience while watching their movies thru samsung smart hub.

Some people think that a stereo signal being upconverted/mixed to Pro Logic II is the same as 5.1 Dolby Digital or 5.1 DTS...It's like night and day. Big Difference....Apples and Oranges...[/CO
LOR]
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-12-2012, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JHAz View Post

Ahhh. Silly software designers must not have AVRs . . .

True Dat brother...you think customers that spent over $2000 on a high end TV like the samsung UNxxES7500 or 8000 would be using a home theater with at least 5.1 DD/DTS, not the tiny punnie 10w built-in stereo speakers. Idiot PR people trying to cut corners...Im a software engineer by trade....and I am pisssed to no end with this issue...I'm gonna call netflix and amazon now to complain too...I spent a lot of many on this so called "SMART TV"
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post #16 of 43 Old 11-13-2012, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi JHAz,

I think you misunderstand the problem (as I did, until I did some googling).

There is no HDMI involved. Everything is inside the Samsung TV. Unlike my first impresion, "Smart Hub" is a piece of software inside the TV that can receive NetFlix and Amazon from the Internet and play them on the TV. Although the TV receives DD5.1 from NetFlix, and the optical link can transmit DD5.1 to the AVR, the "Smart Hub" software is in the middle, down-converting the DD5.1 to stereo. There is no good reason that the software would go out of its way to down-convert, rather than just passing DD5.1 through.

I suspect that problem arises because the Smart-Hub software developers assumed the customer was using the TV's speakers, and therefore converts everything down to stereo. But that's just my conjecture, having been involved in similar corporate blunders.



The Samsung will not pass DD 5.1 to audio optical even when an HDMI input is used, so perhaps it is a pure hardware issue.
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-13-2012, 12:50 AM
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Hi J,
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

The Samsung will not pass DD 5.1 to audio optical even when an HDMI input is used, so perhaps it is a pure hardware issue.
Yes, that could be true. But my understanding is that it does pass DD5.1 to optical from OTA programs that have DD5.1
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post #18 of 43 Old 11-13-2012, 05:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi J,
Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

The Samsung will not pass DD 5.1 to audio optical even when an HDMI input is used, so perhaps it is a pure hardware issue.
Yes, that could be true. But my understanding is that it does pass DD5.1 to optical from OTA programs that have DD5.1


Yes, the Samsung does "pass" DD 5.1 ATSC audio from the TV to the optical audio output.

However, streaming is not an ATSC channel. A PC input is not an ATSC channel.

From what I have heard, it is not that common for a TV to be capable of playing DD 5.1 audio from a source that is other than OTA ATSC content obtained via the TV tuner.

Most people end up having to use their Blu-ray player audio outputs to decode DD 5.1 audio when streaming.

I don't have an HDMI capable AVR, so I connect my Blu-ray player direct to the HDMI input of my Sony TV. DTS audio is only via coax from the Blu-ray to the AVR. DD 5.1 can be sent to the AVR via TV optical or via coax direct from the Blu-ray player. I have not tried to stream from the internet yet, so I assume that there will be no problem with DD 5.1 audio.
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post #19 of 43 Old 11-13-2012, 07:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

The Samsung will not pass DD 5.1 to audio optical even when an HDMI input is used, so perhaps it is a pure hardware issue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkHotchkiss View Post

Hi J,
Yes, that could be true. But my understanding is that it does pass DD5.1 to optical from OTA programs that have DD5.1

Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Yes, the Samsung does "pass" DD 5.1 ATSC audio from the TV to the optical audio output.
However, streaming is not an ATSC channel. A PC input is not an ATSC channel.
From what I have heard, it is not that common for a TV to be capable of playing DD 5.1 audio from a source that is other than OTA ATSC content obtained via the TV tuner.
Most people end up having to use their Blu-ray player audio outputs to decode DD 5.1 audio when streaming.
I don't have an HDMI capable AVR, so I connect my Blu-ray player direct to the HDMI input of my Sony TV. DTS audio is only via coax from the Blu-ray to the AVR. DD 5.1 can be sent to the AVR via TV optical or via coax direct from the Blu-ray player. I have not tried to stream from the internet yet, so I assume that there will be no problem with DD 5.1 audio.

I think you guys are missing the whole point here, even tho some of you comments might be true.... when it comes down to it, the problem is with the software being used for the Smart Hub Interface. I dont know why SmartHub audio is only being output in stereo on netflix/amazon video services on smart hub. We all gotta figure out why...my AVR is set up perfectly, 5.1 sound is being recieved from my PS3, HD cable box and Blueray player...

Smart Hub is not so smart after allll
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post #20 of 43 Old 11-26-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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after plenty of homework, and calling samsung, amazon & netflix:
Here are the facts about Samsung Smart Hub Apps:

Netflix VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - YES, yes on PS3 too...
Amazon VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3
VUDU VOD: Discreet 5.1 DD/DTS via HDMI & Optical - NO NO NO, but yes on my PS3


If you guys can test your sets and let me know if you come up with the same conclusion....
Bottom line, more firmware updates are needed for sure..
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post #21 of 43 Old 03-27-2013, 05:50 AM
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Hello Guys,

There are 3 cases here

1) Playing content coming via Tuner. Clear that 5.1 out is supported.

2) Playing content coming from STB. In that case, it is clear that TV cannot output 5.1 via Optical. it has been mentioned clearly in Manual.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465180/lightbox/post/23125749/id/176124


2) Playing content from any other source like DLNA, Smart Hub , USB plug and Play. This is where user manual is totally silent. Gosh ..they need to clarify it ..

I tried the following

1) Play 5.1 sound movie via USB on my TV. When i go to settings -->Sound Settings --> Bottom of Menu --> SPDIF Audio Output Format --> Default is PCM. Click on Left arrow and it changes to 'Dolby Digital' (5.1 ch)

2) Same for playing movie with 5.1 over DLNA.

So, TV is clearly identifying that 5.1 sound is available. Now, all we need is to do some experiments. I

People with whole setup ..Please share your experiences ?

Thanks
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post #22 of 43 Old 03-27-2013, 07:53 AM
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This is not a theory issue. It's an engineering matter for your specific model of TV. You'll likely get better replies of you post in a thread for your TV in one of the Display Devices forums.
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post #23 of 43 Old 03-27-2013, 10:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post

No 5.1 DD being output OTA, Amazon video or Netflix....very frustrating....
I wouldn't expect Amazon video or Netflix to work, because the TV's optical output is intended to get you DD 5.1 from the TV's tuner only, when the TV is receiving HD digital over-the-air broadcasts through its antenna. However, if when you write "OTA" you truly mean over-the-air (not cable, not by satellite), then I don't understand what is going wrong there. It seems to me that DD 5.1 from OTA HD digital stations should be coming over the optical cable.

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post #24 of 43 Old 03-28-2013, 06:28 AM
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^^ This ended up being an issue of the way Samung handles Smart TV apps. You'll notice that the last post in this exchange (back in November!) says Netflix outputs in 5.1, but not Amazon or Vudu. OTA dropped out of that discussion after just the first mention. In fact, a later post seems to acknowledge the set outputs DD 5.1, just not for the apps.
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post #25 of 43 Old 03-30-2013, 06:54 AM
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And I thought it was just me, first going deaf, then, suffering equipment failure. You guys have given me a sanity boost which I am most gratefull for. I have been fighting with this issue for over 6 months now. I've had fights with Samsung, the cable company (Virgin), the retail shop (HDMI cables/optical leads) and on-line streaming sites (misrepresenting their films).

I got nowhere and have just resigned myself to listening to the majority of media in 'Old school' 2 channel sterio until I can afford a new AV HT device.

One quick question - has anybody tried connecting just the audio outs from either TV or HT?
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post #26 of 43 Old 04-03-2013, 09:19 AM
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I have an older Sony AV receiver that doesn't have HDMI inputs so I connected my uverse DVR to the Sony receiver via optical port to get 5.1 DD. Recently purchased Samsung 7100 series smart TV and Blu Ray player. Since the Sony reciever only has one optical input, I connected both the uverse DVR and Blu Ray via HDMI to the Samsung 7100 and the optical out from the TV to the Sony reciever.

This is what doesn't make sense to me - my Sony receiver shows it is receving 3/2.1 DD (5.1 DD) (blue light illuminated) from the uverse DVR contrary to Samsung documentation. Non HD channels show two channel. A chat with a Samsung rep emphatically says the TV will not pass 5.1 via HDMI. Any thoughts why the Sony receiver indicates multi channel 3/2.1 Dolby Digital, the same as when connected directly to the uverse STB? The sound is better when connected directly to the uverse DVR but the receiver displays are identical. If this a conversion to pro logic the reciever should indicate accordingly. Blu Ray was a promotion so I don't have a disc to test with.

Any suggestions (other than ugrade my reciever) on why the the receiver is indcating a multi channel signal if the TV doesn't pass the 5.1 DD output via the optical port?
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post #27 of 43 Old 04-03-2013, 11:50 AM
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I suspect the TV actually does pass DD 5.1 from HDMI inputs.
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post #28 of 43 Old 04-03-2013, 12:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EndeaverouX View Post



I think you guys are missing the whole point here, even tho some of you comments might be true.... when it comes down to it, the problem is with the software being used for the Smart Hub Interface. I dont know why SmartHub audio is only being output in stereo on netflix/amazon video services on smart hub. We all gotta figure out why...my AVR is set up perfectly, 5.1 sound is being recieved from my PS3, HD cable box and Blueray player...

Smart Hub is not so smart after allll

It just seems very unlikely to me that the TV has sophisticated enough software to take a multichannel input, then downmix it to stereo, and send it out only in stereo vi spdif. Which leads me to believe that the way Samsung reps describe what's going on focuses on the output, when the issue remains in the input. No great trick to take a 5.1 input and transfer it via 5.1. If the input is HDMI and the source is a BD, the handshake would have to tell the device to send the lossy encode, because you cannot transfer multichannel lossless or multichannel PCM over spdif. If it's smart hub downmixing, that seems really, really bizarre to me. Going out of their way to screw up the incoming signal.

But it's just as true that the system only sends out stereo whether that's because it somehow forces a stereo input or because it downmixes the multichannel inputs it receives, and I wouldn't take the Samsung rep's statement to preclude either possibility . . .
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post #29 of 43 Old 04-04-2013, 08:35 PM
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Dear Buzznet,

Can you try the following and share the result

1) Play content on your smart TV via USB (USB plug and Play)
2) Play content via Allshare

Give the Optical out from your TV to Optical in Sony receiver

Can you get 5.1 DD sound in above 2 cases ?

Thanks
Airan
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post #30 of 43 Old 04-22-2013, 11:42 PM
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Update ..

My TV LN46C650 does outputs DD from Optical out. I confirmed it with USB and AllShare streaming.

1) Play content on your smart TV via USB (USB plug and Play)
2) Play content via Allshare

In both cases, receiver detected DD and showed up on display.
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