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post #1 of 873 Old 11-17-2012, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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H, guys im planning to get b&w cm1 speakers with amps,dac. I know i have to buy rca cables,speaker cable and usb cables for my pcfi. I already reached my maximum budget so im looking for best audio cable for low budget. Im looking forward to spent high quality cables in the future but now i need all the cables for about 100 dollars. Can you guys give me recommendation? Thank you.
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post #2 of 873 Old 11-17-2012, 11:35 PM
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Hi CY,
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Originally Posted by cyyoung749 View Post

Can you guys give me recommendation?
Yes: Monoprice

They will all work well, and within your budget.
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post #3 of 873 Old 11-18-2012, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by cyyoung749 View Post

...Im looking forward to spent high quality cables in the future but now i need all the cables for about 100 dollars. Can you guys give me recommendation? Thank you.

Stick with monoprice cables for the LONG run and you should be "looking forward to spent" on equipment upgrades "in the future". Now when you finally upgrade to B&W Nautilus then there is nothing wrong with "wasting" money on high end cables. In the meantime spend the extra money on what gives the most results. High end cables should be last on the list since results are at best debatable, especially with less than high end equipment.
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post #4 of 873 Old 11-18-2012, 05:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cyyoung749 View Post

H, guys im planning to get b&w cm1 speakers with amps,dac. I know i have to buy rca cables,speaker cable and usb cables for my pcfi. I already reached my maximum budget so im looking for best audio cable for low budget. Im looking forward to spent high quality cables in the future but now i need all the cables for about 100 dollars. Can you guys give me recommendation? Thank you.

Especially since your money is tight, don't waste a penny in the myth of overpriced, so-called high quality cables or amps, or DACs. Investing money in better-sounding more capable speakers is good. Leaving some money for room treatments often a very good idea. Your best buy in amplification is going to be an AVR, doubly so since an AVR will have its own DAC. Heavier gauge (e.g. 12 or 14 gauge) speaker cables can make a difference, but again they don't have to cost a lot of money.
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post #5 of 873 Old 11-29-2012, 02:28 PM
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Cables...cables..cables..there's two sides of the camp on this one
I have tryed cheap cables.. Yea you get sound...I have tryed and own hi-end cables and yes..they do make a difference...a very big one!..mono price is good for the money..but in my opinion..when I replaced all my cables with straight wire level 3...speaker cable,interconnects..digital cable from DAC ..I sware it sounded like a whole different system!.. Cables make a big difference..I know this for a fact...best bet is to try some inexpensive ones..and then try some more hi-end straight wire and let your ears decide...a lot of people don't believe it..so you just have to try and decide...best money I ever spent!
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post #6 of 873 Old 11-29-2012, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Cables...cables..cables..there's two sides of the camp on this one
I have tryed cheap cables.. Yea you get sound...I have tryed and own hi-end cables and yes..they do make a difference...a very big one!..mono price is good for the money..but in my opinion..when I replaced all my cables with straight wire level 3...speaker cable,interconnects..digital cable from DAC ..I sware it sounded like a whole different system!.. Cables make a big difference..I know this for a fact...best bet is to try some inexpensive ones..and then try some more hi-end straight wire and let your ears decide...a lot of people don't believe it..so you just have to try and decide...best money I ever spent!

One of the more interesting factoids is that there have been double blind comparisons of high end cables to regular commodity cables using high end systems and experienced audiophiles as the listeners, Deprived of visual feedback about what they are listening to, the audiophiles ended up randomly guessing about what they were listening to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One of the more interesting factoids is that there have been double blind comparisons of high end cables to regular commodity cables using high end systems and experienced audiophiles as the listeners, Deprived of visual feedback about what they are listening to, the audiophiles ended up randomly guessing about what they were listening to.
Yes I know there's two sides to this story..just passing on my experiences with cable testing...when I swapped them out for the straight wire..the differences was absolutly
night@day...but yes I know all about all the test done..that's why he just has to see for himself
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Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Yes I know there's two sides to this story..just passing on my experiences with cable testing...when I swapped them out for the straight wire..the differences was absolutly
night@day...but yes I know all about all the test done..that's why he just has to see for himself
Do you sell AV gears and or accessories?
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post #9 of 873 Old 11-30-2012, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by esh516 
Cables make a big difference..I know this for a fact...

The word "fact" does not mean what you believe it does. This I now for a fact.

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post #10 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 08:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One of the more interesting factoids is that there have been double blind comparisons of high end cables to regular commodity cables using high end systems and experienced audiophiles as the listeners, Deprived of visual feedback about what they are listening to, the audiophiles ended up randomly guessing about what they were listening to.


Yes I know there's two sides to this story.

If by "story" you mean the particular cable test, both sides agreed on the facts I presented.

If by "story" you you mean something more general, the two sides are usually science versus anti-science.

If you like to base your life on anti-science, well be my guest but don't try to impress me with the general applicability of your beliefs. ;-)

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.just passing on my experiences with cable testing...when I swapped them out for the straight wire..the differences was absolutly
night@day...but yes I know all about all the test done..that's why he just has to see for himself

All indications at this point are that your so-called test didn't involve anything like the best available science. If that is true, I will pass by it.
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post #11 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 12:48 PM
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Do you sell AV gears and or accessories?
No..I do not sell anything audio...I do sell granite countertops and kitchen remodeling though!
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post #12 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 01:16 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

If by "story" you mean the particular cable test, both sides agreed on the facts I presented.
If by "story" you you mean something more general, the two sides are usually science versus anti-science.
If you like to base your life on anti-science, well be my guest but don't try to impress me with the general applicability of your beliefs. ;-)
All indications at this point are that your so-called test didn't involve anything like the best available science. If that is true, I will pass by it.
Unbelievable!... I don't care about scientific evidence... Blah..blah..blah..you mean to tell Mr if you have a pair of radio shack 10$ cables and you swap them out for 300$ straight wire or kimber cable you can not tell a difference??...that's odd...stereophile and other high end mags sure can tell a big difference and I usually agree on there results after I try it for myself...just like when they swapped out the stock power cord on the emotive CD player for a audio quest nrg-3..they noticed the same effects Idid..bells and whistles seriously jumped out at you...creeping closer into the listening area..and that's what I experienced!
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post #13 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 01:54 PM
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^Of course you did. The power of suggestion is pretty strong in audio.

If I told you the cheap cables were actually $1000 and were highly recommended by Stereophile, you'd probably hear things with them and think they were better.

That's human nature, and you're human, right?

Stereophile says you'll hear something, you listen for it, and do (or think you do). Makes perfect sense. But it's in your head and not outside it.

For every new thing I learn, I forget two things I used to know.
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post #14 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Cables...cables..cables..there's two sides of the camp on this one
I have tryed cheap cables.. Yea you get sound...I have tryed and own hi-end cables and yes..they do make a difference...a very big one!..mono price is good for the money..but in my opinion..when I replaced all my cables with straight wire level 3...speaker cable,interconnects..digital cable from DAC ..I sware it sounded like a whole different system!.. Cables make a big difference..I know this for a fact...best bet is to try some inexpensive ones..and then try some more hi-end straight wire and let your ears decide...a lot of people don't believe it..so you just have to try and decide...best money I ever spent!

You don't mention power cords. If you didn't replace those, you can't possibly have the best performance. Contact member "IamAnoobiecheez" to get the best information available about power cords.

I, myself am planning to rip out my 3 20-amp circuits and, based on noobiecheez's advice, replace them with one Grim Reaper Power Cord from Coconut-audio.com. It's $200,000, but it provides "bleeding edge" performance. I'm going to get an inexpensive $100 power conditioner and connect it to the fuze box with the Grim Reaper. Then all I need to do is attach everything to that power conditioner with "cheap" $500 - $1,000 power cords. For my subs, I plan to get 3 Magic Mushroom Power Cords @ $38,000 each. The performance of my system will increase gastronomically. Here the thread where he gave me this incredibly excellent advice: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440640/high-end-power-cord-for-subwoofer

Here is the coconut-audio website. http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html They have some great pre-holiday sales going on right now.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

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post #15 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 04:11 PM
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Although the speaker and IC cable silliness is hilarious, the power cable claptrap is absiolutely priceless.Too bad those that think a power cable affects sound or video in any way have zero concept of what happens inside the power supply.
Why did i ever give away all those deeds to the bridges and monuments I had?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Unbelievable!... I don't care about scientific evidence... Blah..blah..blah..you mean to tell Mr if you have a pair of radio shack 10$ cables and you swap them out for 300$ straight wire or kimber cable you can not tell a difference??...that's odd...stereophile and other high end mags sure can tell a big difference and I usually agree on there results after I try it for myself...just like when they swapped out the stock power cord on the emotive CD player for a audio quest nrg-3..they noticed the same effects Idid..bells and whistles seriously jumped out at you...creeping closer into the listening area..and that's what I experienced!
That's called placebo effect. We are all prone to that. One way to eliminate that is to do double blind test which you haven't tried for yourself. May be you should.
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post #17 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Unbelievable!... I don't care about scientific evidence... Blah..blah..blah..you mean to tell Mr if you have a pair of radio shack 10$ cables and you swap them out for 300$ straight wire or kimber cable you can not tell a difference?

Of course I can tell the difference - if I can see the cables.
Quote:
?...that's odd

No, that's science.
Quote:
...Stereophile and other high end mags sure can tell a big difference

I guess you're saying that if ifs published in a magazine or on the web, it must be true, eh?

You don't think that these sources might not be a little biased?
Quote:
and I usually agree on there results after I try it for myself..

The probability seem high that your own tests lack bias controls. As I said before, removing sighted bias from listening tests generally brings their results into conformance with what we expect from scientific analysis.

Do you have a problem with science?
Quote:
.just like when they swapped out the stock power cord on the emotive CD player for a audio quest nrg-3..they noticed the same effects Idid..bells and whistles seriously jumped out at you...creeping closer into the listening area..and that's what I experienced!

Ever hear of the phrase "expectation effects"?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You don't mention power cords. If you didn't replace those, you can't possibly have the best performance. Contact member "IamAnoobiecheez" to get the best information available about power cords.
I, myself am planning to rip out my 3 20-amp circuits and, based on noobiecheez's advice, replace them with one Grim Reaper Power Cord from Coconut-audio.com. It's $200,000, but it provides "bleeding edge" performance. I'm going to get an inexpensive $100 power conditioner and connect it to the fuze box with the Grim Reaper. Then all I need to do is attach everything to that power conditioner with "cheap" $500 - $1,000 power cords. For my subs, I plan to get 3 Magic Mushroom Power Cords @ $38,000 each. The performance of my system will increase gastronomically. Here the thread where he gave me this incredibly excellent advice: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440640/high-end-power-cord-for-subwoofer
Here is the coconut-audio website. http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html They have some great pre-holiday sales going on right now.
Craig
Wow...OK..my kidney is up on eBay..lol
Yes I have replaced all my power cords with pangae ac-9 se...very nice upgrade...sure would like to eat..I mean try those magic mushrooms though!
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post #19 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 04:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

You don't mention power cords. If you didn't replace those, you can't possibly have the best performance. Contact member "IamAnoobiecheez" to get the best information available about power cords.
I, myself am planning to rip out my 3 20-amp circuits and, based on noobiecheez's advice, replace them with one Grim Reaper Power Cord from Coconut-audio.com. It's $200,000, but it provides "bleeding edge" performance. I'm going to get an inexpensive $100 power conditioner and connect it to the fuze box with the Grim Reaper. Then all I need to do is attach everything to that power conditioner with "cheap" $500 - $1,000 power cords. For my subs, I plan to get 3 Magic Mushroom Power Cords @ $38,000 each. The performance of my system will increase gastronomically. Here the thread where he gave me this incredibly excellent advice: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440640/high-end-power-cord-for-subwoofer
Here is the coconut-audio website. http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html They have some great pre-holiday sales going on right now.
Craig
Good reading!..thanks for the link
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Good reading!..thanks for the link
You're welcome. Just remember, if you want one of those Grim Reapers, they take 4 months to build. Even the Magic Mushrooms take 2 months. You won't get any of them in time for Christmas.

Craig

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post #21 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 05:48 PM
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^Of course you did. The power of suggestion is pretty strong in audio.
If I told you the cheap cables were actually $1000 and were highly recommended by Stereophile, you'd probably hear things with them and think they were better.
That's human nature, and you're human, right?
Stereophile says you'll hear something, you listen for it, and do (or think you do). Makes perfect sense. But it's in your head and not outside it.
I understand what your saying and I have had friends pull that on me before...they were using radio shack 10$ speaker cable and tryed to tell me it was kimber kable 800$..I knew right away they were pulling my leg!..but yes I do understand your philosophy.. But it won't really work on someone in this hobby with a trained ear-and know what to listen for!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

I understand what your saying and I have had friends pull that on me before...they were using radio shack 10$ speaker cable and tryed to tell me it was kimber kable 800$..I knew right away they were pulling my leg!..but yes I do understand your philosophy.. But it won't really work on someone in this hobby with a trained ear-and know what to listen for!
You mean what to look at, right?
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post #23 of 873 Old 12-01-2012, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

I understand what your saying and I have had friends pull that on me before...they were using radio shack 10$ speaker cable and tryed to tell me it was kimber kable 800$..I knew right away they were pulling my leg!..but yes I do understand your philosophy.. But it won't really work on someone in this hobby with a trained ear-and know what to listen for!

The fact that you identify various wires by pricetags says all one needs to know about that particular scam/cult.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

One of the more interesting factoids is that there have been double blind comparisons of high end cables to regular commodity cables using high end systems and experienced audiophiles as the listeners, Deprived of visual feedback about what they are listening to, the audiophiles ended up randomly guessing about what they were listening to.

snuffed with powder will do that to you.
jst a quick scoop from the mid or side band channels that you werent paying attention to.
that is why they say 'what is the scoop?'
or
'a lot can happen in 5 minutes'
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post #25 of 873 Old 12-02-2012, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by esh516 View Post

Cables...cables..cables..there's two sides of the camp on this one
I have tryed cheap cables.. Yea you get sound...I have tryed and own hi-end cables and yes..they do make a difference...a very big one!..mono price is good for the money..but in my opinion..when I replaced all my cables with straight wire level 3...speaker cable,interconnects..digital cable from DAC ..I sware it sounded like a whole different system!.. Cables make a big difference..I know this for a fact...best bet is to try some inexpensive ones..and then try some more hi-end straight wire and let your ears decide...a lot of people don't believe it..so you just have to try and decide...best money I ever spent!

You don't mention power cords. If you didn't replace those, you can't possibly have the best performance. Contact member "IamAnoobiecheez" to get the best information available about power cords.

I, myself am planning to rip out my 3 20-amp circuits and, based on noobiecheez's advice, replace them with one Grim Reaper Power Cord from Coconut-audio.com. It's $200,000, but it provides "bleeding edge" performance. I'm going to get an inexpensive $100 power conditioner and connect it to the fuze box with the Grim Reaper. Then all I need to do is attach everything to that power conditioner with "cheap" $500 - $1,000 power cords. For my subs, I plan to get 3 Magic Mushroom Power Cords @ $38,000 each. The performance of my system will increase gastronomically. Here the thread where he gave me this incredibly excellent advice: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1440640/high-end-power-cord-for-subwoofer

Here is the coconut-audio website. http://www.coconut-audio.com/index.html They have some great pre-holiday sales going on right now.

Craig

 

LOL!!  AVS member arnyk recently made a very apt comment on the difference cables can make to the performance of your system. Commenting on how cables can make a huge difference to the sound quality he had this to say: it has been proven that if the component to component distance is greater than the length of the cable, the sound will definitely suffer.  I paraphrase but that is the gist of it. I have tested this myself and he is 100% correct - the cable under test did make a vast sonic difference.

 

Edit: @arnyk - I didn't see you were here in this thread so apologies for talking about you as if you weren;t there!  And your original comment was funnier than my paraphrase too ;)

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post #26 of 873 Old 12-02-2012, 04:02 AM
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Wow!  I hope your doctor doesn’t have the same philosophy wink.gif

The "anti-science" attitude among some makes me seriously question the quality of our educational system.
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post #28 of 873 Old 12-02-2012, 04:59 AM
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Wow!  I hope your doctor doesn’t have the same philosophy wink.gif

The "anti-science" attitude among some makes me seriously question the quality of our educational system.

You can take a horse to water...
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post #29 of 873 Old 12-02-2012, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Wow!  I hope your doctor doesn’t have the same philosophy wink.gif

The "anti-science" attitude among some makes me seriously question the quality of our educational system.

Yes, IKWYM. Of course things like 'expectation bias' and 'placebo effect' and so on are also rooted in science, so it isn’t surprising that those who reject the objective evidence science offers, in favour of their 'beliefs', also reject the notion that they are being influenced by expectation bias and so on. 

 

There has always been this dichotomy between scientific evidence and beliefs. Once people 'believed' the earth was flat: they could 'see' that it was 'with their own eyes'. Once they 'believed' that the sun went around the earth: again they could 'observe with their own eyes and senses' that it was so. The person who scientifically demonstrated that they were wrong was attacked from all sides and, significantly, on the basis that Copernicus's findings were 'against the evidence of the senses' (not to mention against the content of the Bible). To go back and read the rebuttals from the distinguished opponents is now amusing in the light of what we know today. Interestingly, one of the key arguments put forward as rebuttal of Copernicus's discovery was that it was largely based on mathematics and that mathematics was a mere 'product of the intellect' without any real connection to physical reality! As such, math could not offer a solution of a physical or 'natural' problem such as whether or not the Earth was the centre of the universe. See any similarities there with the discussion about whether amps, cables and so on 'sound different' to each other?

 

At least esh516 is honest and openly says that he doesn't care about science. He prefers the 'evidence of his own senses' just as the anti-Copernicans did all those centuries ago.

 

I assume that the discoveries of Copernicus and Galileo etc are still taught in schools today? It's a long time since I went to school ;)

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post #30 of 873 Old 12-02-2012, 05:50 AM
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Its been a long time for me too. I was forced to learn scientific principles in my training to be a Registered Nurse and growing up in the household of a doctor, my father. Psychiatry was my specialty so feelings do matter a great deal to me but I don't let them trump contradictory scientific evidence. I do understand that some cannot get beyond feelings and perception.
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