Audio setup (to dump or not to dump?) - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 09:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Hi everyone,

I am planning to move to a new house and would like to upgrade some of my AV devices. Basically I am very interested in buying a OPPO BDP-95 and a power amp for my Dynaudio Audience speakers. But in the meantime I am also in a dilemma of making decisions to keep old stuff or not. I have two connnection options in drawing, but since I cannot post images I will try to describe in detail.
Existing equipment:
Panasonic RP91 CD/DVD player(192k/24bit), Marantz SR7000 AVR, Dynaudio Audience 40, 50, c120 and Velodyne sub
Wish list:
Oppo BDP 95, Emotiva amp (have not decided which one)
Option 1
Oppo as the CD/DVD/BD source, connects to a power amp (Emotiva UPA500, 120W @4ohm x5 ch), then connect to my 5.1.
Option 2
Oppo as the BD/DVD source, Pana as the CD source, use Marantz as AV receiver, pre-out to Emotiva XPA200(240W @4ohm x2 ch) to drive front right and left channel, Marantz to drive RR/RL/C.

Can you guys tell me ,
1. Is 120W @4ohm per channel enough to drive Dyna's?
2. Is the audio playback quality of OPPO good enough I can dump my old Panasonic RP91 (192K/24bit)?
3. I know people might suggest me to upgrade my AVR. But if I have OPPO, I have the DAC already, why should I buy AVR? I can run my speakers like in Option 1
Any feedback is highly appreciated!

-Bryan
tenmad899 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 10:10 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenmad899 View Post

Hi everyone,

I am planning to move to a new house and would like to upgrade some of my AV devices.

One of the most important of your AV devices is your listening room. What are you doing to make it an acoustical upgrade over what it is now, or what you have now?
Quote:
Basically I am very interested in buying a OPPO BDP-95 and a power amp for my Dynaudio Audience speakers.

Looks like you are majoring in wheel spinning 101.

Of course you could have a a mini Velodyne sub - so which one do you have?

Quote:
But in the meantime I am also in a dilemma of making decisions to keep old stuff or not.

Where do you live? I'll take your old stuff freight paid if its reasonable. I might even drive over there myself and pick it up. ;-)
Quote:
Can you guys tell me ,
1. Is 120W @4ohm per channel enough to drive Dyna's?

Probably more than enough.
Quote:
2. Is the audio playback quality of OPPO good enough I can dump my old Panasonic RP91 (192K/24bit)?

Why spend all that money on the Oppo?
Quote:
3. I know people might suggest me to upgrade my AVR. But if I have OPPO, I have the DAC already, why should I buy AVR? I can run my speakers like in Option 1
Any feedback is highly appreciated!

You've got good enough electronics to sound great if you have a listening room with good acoustics.

If you have a listening room with poor acoustics no amount of upgraded electronics will help you much.
arnyk is offline  
post #3 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 11:30 AM
Newbie
 
dynamic73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have a friend who has those same speakers. He tried many different amps to drive them. Until he got a Conrad Johnson amp, which is putting out about 250 wpc. We never really heard what the speakers are truly capable of producing. Those speakers are power hungry. 120 watts will drive them. But they won't sound as they should. Till you get something more powerful for them. The difference was really amazing.
dynamic73 is offline  
post #4 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 12:29 PM
Member
 
Hifisound's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 132
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamic73 View Post

I have a friend who has those same speakers. He tried many different amps to drive them. Until he got a Conrad Johnson amp, which is putting out about 250 wpc. We never really heard what the speakers are truly capable of producing. Those speakers are power hungry. 120 watts will drive them. But they won't sound as they should. Till you get something more powerful for them. The difference was really amazing.

If not far away, maybe you can take your AVR to your friend's place and then compare the 2 amps with the same source,same speaker and same room (will need to match loudness).

Hifisound is offline  
post #5 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Arnyk,
Quote:
One of the most important of your AV devices is your listening room. What are you doing to make it an acoustical upgrade over what it is now, or what you have now?

I understand the importance of listening environment. I will work on that in my next step. Right now I just want to know which one would sound better? Or makes good sense of use for my equipment.
Quote:
Of course you could have a a mini Velodyne sub - so which one do you have?
I believe it is CT120
Quote:
I might even drive over there myself and pick it up. ;-)
I live in Taiwan. Care to cross Pacfic Ocean to make a deal?
Quote:
Why spend all that money on the Oppo?

Simple. Oppo does new things such as Blue Ray play back, with 3D, or use DLNA to play the music in my laptop HDD, and decode latest surround sound technology (e.g. Dolby True HD)
tenmad899 is offline  
post #6 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 06:35 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by dynamic73 View Post

I have a friend who has those same speakers. He tried many different amps to drive them. Until he got a Conrad Johnson amp, which is putting out about 250 wpc. We never really heard what the speakers are truly capable of producing. Those speakers are power hungry. 120 watts will drive them. But they won't sound as they should. Till you get something more powerful for them. The difference was really amazing.

Hi dynamic73,

Your friend's 250W is at 8ohm load or 4ohm?
tenmad899 is offline  
post #7 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hifisound View Post

If not far away, maybe you can take your AVR to your friend's place and then compare the 2 amps with the same source,same speaker and same room (will need to match loudness).

Hi Hifisound,

I wish I had such a friend closeby. The thing is, Oppo (the source) is on my wish list, I have not purchased one yet. So is the power amp.
tenmad899 is offline  
post #8 of 20 Old 11-20-2012, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10

Connection diagrams
tenmad899 is offline  
post #9 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 12:21 AM
Newbie
 
asherwood's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 6
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have the OPPO 95 (and the 83SE before that) and only use it for playing movies. The sound is pretty horrible for music. Very tinny. I owned a Marantz UD7006 but it died within a month of ownership. I replaced it with the McIntosh MVP891. Better sound than the Marantz, and the McIntosh included one thing that will be on any player that I buy again: a layer button on the front of the unit, and on the remote!

The best thing that you can do for your sound (in priority order):
* the best source that you can afford
* the best pre-amp that you can afford
* the best mono-blocks that you can afford (don't even waste your time with stereo amps)
asherwood is offline  
post #10 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 01:20 AM
Newbie
 
dynamic73's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenmad899 View Post

Hi dynamic73,
Your friend's 250W is at 8ohm load or 4ohm?

Their 4 ohm speakers. So he's using a C J 200 wpc @ 8 ohm amp. So it's probably pushing them at 250-300 wpc @ 4 ohms. They will get loud under most any amp. But they don't have the bass and the sound stage. Till you get plenty of power on them.
dynamic73 is offline  
post #11 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 06:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
ccotenj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: the toxic waste dumps of new jersey
Posts: 21,915
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 90
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherwood View Post

I have the OPPO 95 (and the 83SE before that) and only use it for playing movies. The sound is pretty horrible for music. Very tinny. I owned a Marantz UD7006 but it died within a month of ownership. I replaced it with the McIntosh MVP891. Better sound than the Marantz, and the McIntosh included one thing that will be on any player that I buy again: a layer button on the front of the unit, and on the remote!

The best thing that you can do for your sound (in priority order):
* the best source that you can afford
* the best pre-amp that you can afford
* the best mono-blocks that you can afford (don't even waste your time with stereo amps)

ummm... no....

the "best" thing you can do for your sound is first to understand that virtually ALL of what you hear is a result of the speakers and how they interface with the room...

until you understand that, you are merely flopping around...

- chris

 

my build thread - updated 8-20-12 - new seating installed and projector isolation solution

 

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1332917/ccotenj-finally-gets-a-projector

ccotenj is offline  
post #12 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 07:17 AM
Senior Member
 
kraut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 379
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 60
Quote:
The best thing that you can do for your sound (in priority order):
* the best source that you can afford
* the best pre-amp that you can afford
* the best mono-blocks that you can afford (don't even waste your time with stereo amps)

Isn't free speech nice. Anybody can have an opinion, no matter what evidence for it.
You are telling that above mess to a guy that switched from a bryston system to a cheap (comparatively) hypex amp and now an old quad 405/33 combo after testing extensively and not being able to hear any differences.
What counts are the speakers and to have an amp that can deliver the sound at desired volume plus some extra with less than audible distortion at that level, and is build to last longer than a few years.
kraut is offline  
post #13 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 07:29 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherwood View Post

I have the OPPO 95 (and the 83SE before that) and only use it for playing movies. The sound is pretty horrible for music. Very tinny. I owned a Marantz UD7006 but it died within a month of ownership. I replaced it with the McIntosh MVP891. Better sound than the Marantz, and the McIntosh included one thing that will be on any player that I buy again: a layer button on the front of the unit, and on the remote!

The best thing that you can do for your sound (in priority order):
* the best source that you can afford
* the best pre-amp that you can afford
* the best mono-blocks that you can afford (don't even waste your time with stereo amps)

Hmm a post with what appears to be 3 audiophile myths in a row!

Happy Thanksgiving to me! ;-)

Practically thinking the best things that you can do for your sound (in priority order):

* Pay a lot of attention to speakers and room acoustics. A average audio system that is well-matched to a room with good acoustics will sound a ton better than the best components carelessly tossed into a bad room. Bad rooms abound.

* A good AVR and BD player connected to the AVR via a HDMI, optical or coax cable are your friends.

* Source material quality is very important. The bad news is that most of such things are chosen based on artistic and popularity consideration, and the SQ is what it is [/quote]
arnyk is offline  
post #14 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Guys, thanks for all your inputs. However I think we are a bit off topic now. Let's forget the make and model I listed. Option 1: connect BDP with a multi channel power amp; Option 2: connect BDP to old AVR, AVR pre-out to a power amp to drive front speakers, let old AVR drive center and surrounds. Which one is better?
tenmad899 is offline  
post #15 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 09:03 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenmad899 View Post

Guys, thanks for all your inputs. However I think we are a bit off topic now. Let's forget the make and model I listed.

Option 1: connect BDP with a multi channel power amp;

Where is the volume control?
What about bass management?
Quote:
Option 2: connect BDP to old AVR, AVR pre-out to a power amp to drive front speakers, let old AVR drive center and surrounds.

Why add the power amp?

Option 3: connect BDP to new AVR e.g. Marantz SR7005

HDMI support
DLNA support
Audyssey Mutlieq XT

etc. etc.
arnyk is offline  
post #16 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Where is the volume control?
Good question. Is there any power amp with volume control?
Quote:
What about bass management?
BDP has analog output directly connects to an active sub.
Quote:
Why add the power amp?
Because I was told AVR does not have enough power under 4ohm load.
Quote:
Option 3: connect BDP to new AVR e.g. Marantz SR7005
If above is not true, then this would be the one.
tenmad899 is offline  
post #17 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 10:08 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
amirm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Washington State
Posts: 18,375
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 980 Post(s)
Liked: 546
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenmad899 View Post

Good question. Is there any power amp with volume control?
No. If it has a volume control, then it is called an integrated amplifier. It will then have a pre-amp in it which has the volume control.
Quote:
Because I was told AVR does not have enough power under 4ohm load.
You have another consideration: whether the AVR will drive a 4 ohm load without overheating and/or going into protection. I glanced at the manual and it only talks about 8 ohms. Likely this is not a problem but thought I mention it.

Outside of this point, if this is for watching movies, then the channel that needs the most amplification is the center. That is where most of the signal is including sound effects (augmenting the sub). So putting the separate power amp for L/R channels is not as useful. Ideally you would have a 3-channel amp that you use for the fronts (L/C/R).

Amir
Retired Technology Insider
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"
amirm is online now  
post #18 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 11:58 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
arnyk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Grosse Pointe Woods, MI
Posts: 14,387
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked: 1175
Quote:
Originally Posted by tenmad899 View Post

Quote:
Where is the volume control?
Good question. Is there any power amp with volume control?

Individual channel gain controls are pretty common on power amps for professional use. They are very inconvenient to use as home system volume controls.
Quote:
Quote:
What about bass management?
BDP has analog output directly connects to an active sub.

IME BDP bass management is far less sophisticated than that on a good AVR.
Quote:
Quote:
Why add the power amp?
Because I was told AVR does not have enough power under 4ohm load.

"Being told" seems to be pretty weak support. If I tell you it does, does that make a difference? ;-)
Quote:
Quote:
Option 3: connect BDP to new AVR e.g. Marantz SR7005
If above is not true, then this would be the one.
arnyk is offline  
post #19 of 20 Old 11-22-2012, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
tenmad899's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 18
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Arnyk,

Thanks for your input. It seems option 1 is not realistic. Now the question comes down to do I buy a new AVR to replace old one or do I buy a power amp and keep my old AVR as in option 2.
tenmad899 is offline  
post #20 of 20 Old 12-01-2012, 04:49 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
bobpaule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: US
Posts: 1,410
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Liked: 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by asherwood View Post

I have the OPPO 95 (and the 83SE before that) and only use it for playing movies. The sound is pretty horrible for music. Very tinny. I owned a Marantz UD7006 but it died within a month of ownership. I replaced it with the McIntosh MVP891. Better sound than the Marantz, and the McIntosh included one thing that will be on any player that I buy again: a layer button on the front of the unit, and on the remote!
The best thing that you can do for your sound (in priority order):
* the best source that you can afford
* the best pre-amp that you can afford
* the best mono-blocks that you can afford (don't even waste your time with stereo amps)

Amen bro, D&M Holdings gave me the twin minus 3D, ie DVD-A1UDCI, which just like the UD9004 and MVP881 cousin
share the same audio decoding and signal processing as your machine. I doubt i will ever buy another SACD player again, not until a non-cloned Denon or Oppo with XLR Stereo and RCA 7.1 comes to the market with superior DACs and balanced pathways.
bobpaule is offline  
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off