Is there a reason why audio looks out of synch on my new TV? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 29 Old 11-23-2012, 10:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Sorry if this is not the right discussion board for this question, but back in July I bought a brand new Samsung Smart TV that is 1080P 120Hz. The model number is s6100.

Anyway, no matter what I try, the dialog coming out of the center channel has a habit of looking out of synch with the lip movement, while the sound effects are fine. I thought it might have been the disc, but it has happened on nearly every movie I watch, and calibrating the tv has not fixed the issue. Does anyone know what is going on and how I fix this?

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post #2 of 29 Old 11-24-2012, 09:42 AM
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Yes. Video processing in TVs often results in the picture being out of sync with the audio. See if your TV has a "game" mode. Set it to that, don't worry about the picture changing, and see if it is more in sync now.

As to fix, your processor/audio equipment likely has an audio delay setting. Go into that menu and change it and see if you can get it in sync. It is very common to have to do this to get good sync.

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post #3 of 29 Old 11-24-2012, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

no matter what I try, the dialog coming out of the center channel has a habit of looking out of synch with the lip movement

There are many causes of sync problems with TV broadcasts, and this article explains it in detail:

http://mixonline.com/post/features/audio_late_future/

Note that the video it usually ahead, at least that's the case when I notice this on TV. So delaying the audio would only make the problem worse. (Though this should not be an issue with DVDs or Blu-rays etc.)

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post #4 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

There are many causes of sync problems with TV broadcasts, and this article explains it in detail:
http://mixonline.com/post/features/audio_late_future/
Note that the video it usually ahead, at least that's the case when I notice this on TV. So delaying the audio would only make the problem worse. (Though this should not be an issue with DVDs or Blu-rays etc.)
--Ethan

Yeah, I don't watch tv broadcasts. I am referring to the audio on BDs and DVDs.

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post #5 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer View Post

There are many causes of sync problems with TV broadcasts, and this article explains it in detail:
http://mixonline.com/post/features/audio_late_future/
Note that the video it usually ahead, at least that's the case when I notice this on TV. So delaying the audio would only make the problem worse. (Though this should not be an issue with DVDs or Blu-rays etc.)
--Ethan

Yeah, I don't watch tv broadcasts. I am referring to the audio on BDs and DVDs.



I have no problem with TV audio. For my hi-def TV I do have to use the audio delay feature built into by Bluray player to get the lip sync right for DVD and Bluray. As I recall I need to use 50 ms of audio delay.
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post #6 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 04:40 PM
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If the delay is consistent and the audio precedes the video you may be able to fix it with either a setting on the TV or your AV receiver as advised above..

If it's random, you are just seeing the sloppiness in today's TV broadcast industry. And then who fault is it really? The production facility, the duplicator, the network, the local station, the cable or satellite company? Any of these can induce lip sync errors these days.

Most of it is caused by the MPEG (or other) compression and re-compression processes. When we had analog distribution chains and even early uncompressed digital systems, these lip sync problems were rare. Today they seem to be the norm!

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post #7 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

I have no problem with TV audio. For my hi-def TV I do have to use the audio delay feature built into by Bluray player to get the lip sync right for DVD and Bluray. As I recall I need to use 50 ms of audio delay.

Where do I go to access this audio delay feature? I use the PS3 for my BD viewing. And my receiver is a Pioneer Elite.
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

If the delay is consistent and the audio precedes the video you may be able to fix it with either a setting on the TV or your AV receiver as advised above..
If it's random, you are just seeing the sloppiness in today's TV broadcast industry. And then who fault is it really? The production facility, the duplicator, the network, the local station, the cable or satellite company? Any of these can induce lip sync errors these days.
Most of it is caused by the MPEG (or other) compression and re-compression processes. When we had analog distribution chains and even early uncompressed digital systems, these lip sync problems were rare. Today they seem to be the norm!

Once again, I do not watch anything broadcasted over tv as I do not have cable. Everything I watch is either on disc, streamed, or downloaded.

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post #8 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 09:07 PM
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Broadcast tv doesn't necessarily mean cable, it can still be over the air and can make a difference as the video is directly part of the tv rather than an outside source and how that's routed and being processed.

In your Pioneer's manual there should be a listing for how to find your lipsync or audio delay adjustment feature.

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post #9 of 29 Old 12-02-2012, 09:26 PM
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Streaming and internet download? I would expect these sources to be the worst in terms of lip sync. Far too many encoder/decoder incompatabilities with streaming technology.

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post #10 of 29 Old 12-03-2012, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Streaming and internet download? I would expect these sources to be the worst in terms of lip sync. Far too many encoder/decoder incompatabilities with streaming technology.

Except I don't have any problems with either of those. It only does it on BD discs. Not every time, but it will do it for like 5 minute spurts. And usually it is only lip movements, as sound effects will still be synched.

Of course, this receiver was not really worth the $800 I paid. There seems to be little bass out of it no matter how high I turn up my subwoover.

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post #11 of 29 Old 12-03-2012, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

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Streaming and internet download? I would expect these sources to be the worst in terms of lip sync. Far too many encoder/decoder incompatabilities with streaming technology.

Except I don't have any problems with either of those. It only does it on BD discs. Not every time, but it will do it for like 5 minute spurts. And usually it is only lip movements, as sound effects will still be synched.

Of course, this receiver was not really worth the $800 I paid. There seems to be little bass out of it no matter how high I turn up my subwoover.

I'd return the bd player or replace if it performs inconsistently.

The sub setup sounds off, and the settings for your avr/sub you don't specify. What are the details of settings on the sub, in your avr and what you did to setup the sub overall?

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post #12 of 29 Old 12-03-2012, 10:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

Except I don't have any problems with either of those. It only does it on BD discs. Not every time, but it will do it for like 5 minute spurts. And usually it is only lip movements, as sound effects will still be synched.
Did you try setting the TV to game mode as I suggested? If it works, I can explain why smile.gif.

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post #13 of 29 Old 12-04-2012, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

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Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

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Originally Posted by Glimmie View Post

Streaming and internet download? I would expect these sources to be the worst in terms of lip sync. Far too many encoder/decoder incompatabilities with streaming technology.

Except I don't have any problems with either of those. It only does it on BD discs. Not every time, but it will do it for like 5 minute spurts. And usually it is only lip movements, as sound effects will still be synched.

Of course, this receiver was not really worth the $800 I paid. There seems to be little bass out of it no matter how high I turn up my subwoover.

I'd return the bd player or replace if it performs inconsistently.

The sub setup sounds off, and the settings for your avr/sub you don't specify. What are the details of settings on the sub, in your avr and what you did to setup the sub overall?

The symptoms given above are extremely unusual.

Typically, lip synch from BD players is off consistently unless the actual video has problems. The usual situation is that the audio leads the video which most modern receivers can correct.

Our perception of lip synch is much more critical with dialogue than sound effects. Maybe that is what is going on.

Receivers generally can provide excellent bass response unless there is a problem with the selection, room, positioning or adjustment of the speakers.
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post #14 of 29 Old 12-04-2012, 04:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I'd return the bd player or replace if it performs inconsistently.

It is a PS3 that is 2 years old. I cannot really just replace it. In fact, it was fine until I got a new tv this past summer.
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The sub setup sounds off, and the settings for your avr/sub you don't specify. What are the details of settings on the sub, in your avr and what you did to setup the sub overall?

I plugged it in to the receiver and turned on the power button.

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post #15 of 29 Old 12-04-2012, 07:57 PM
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I have a PS3 not quite 2 years old. Never an issue. You sure it's not the source media? Did you try adjusting for delay in the AVR?

As to your sub, what sub is it and what input to the sub are you using?

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post #16 of 29 Old 12-04-2012, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

It is a PS3 that is 2 years old. I cannot really just replace it. In fact, it was fine until I got a new tv this past summer.
Which is what I have been trying to tell you smile.gif. The TV has video processing. It attempts to de-interlace and inverse telecine the video to get back to 24p for movies. It does this by analyzing the picture and depending on what it sees, it changes what it does to generate a progressive frame image. And when it does this, it can change the amount of time it takes for the video to reach the screen. Now, it is not supposed to be broken this way but sadly, that is the nature of the animal sometimes. Mistakes in how the video is encoded causes this problem to show up on some titles and some parts of a title and not others.

Try a couple of things:

1. Set PS3 to 1080p24. Connect it directly to the TV first, bypassing the AVR. Play the part that has the problem and see if it is still there. If it is not, then try it through the AVR as that box also attempts to screw around with the video. If it is still there try #2 below

2. Set your TV to game mode as I suggested. Game mode is designed for low latency and it likewise removes the video processing. It also screws up the picture so you don't want to use it permanently but for now, will produce a new data point on what could be wrong.

If you are unwilling to try things as suggested please say so and I will go ahead and try to confuse someone else and not you. biggrin.gif

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post #17 of 29 Old 12-26-2012, 10:23 AM - Thread Starter
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It still does it occasionally, but it only does it every few movies I watch and only for a few minutes.

Amirm, I wanted to ask though, if I plug the PS3 directly into the tv, how am I going to get the best lossless audio out of my receiver? Can it still detect DTS-HD and Dolby True HD even if it is not directly plugged into the receiver?

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post #18 of 29 Old 12-30-2012, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

I plugged it in to the receiver and turned on the power button.

This is probably why your bass is non existent. Im betting your receiver isnt seeing your sub, your +/- setting in the receiver is off, or some combo of the two.
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post #19 of 29 Old 12-30-2012, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

Sorry if this is not the right discussion board for this question, but back in July I bought a brand new Samsung Smart TV that is 1080P 120Hz. The model number is s6100.
Anyway, no matter what I try, the dialog coming out of the center channel has a habit of looking out of synch with the lip movement, while the sound effects are fine. I thought it might have been the disc, but it has happened on nearly every movie I watch, and calibrating the tv has not fixed the issue. Does anyone know what is going on and how I fix this?

Dr. Kain, take a look at the Pioneer remote control. Perhaps you will see "lip sync", and you can make the adjustment on the fly. I would be very surprised if the receiver didn't have this. Please state what model number the receiver is.

Are you processing the audio from..."out" of the disc player...to "in" on the receiver. Some people are "out" of the TV to "in" on the receiver...(ARC/ audio return channel).
HDMI or optical/toslink hook up?

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post #20 of 29 Old 12-30-2012, 07:52 PM
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The VSX-60, one of the smaller Pioneer Elite's does in fact have "lip Sync". From my experience, this is not a problem created by the networks or the TV, but an audio delay that happens as a result of the signal traveling through components and passing from one component to another. I don't really know the real answer...LOL. We shall wait to see what the Dr's model number is.

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post #21 of 29 Old 12-31-2012, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Espo77 View Post

The VSX-60, one of the smaller Pioneer Elite's does in fact have "lip Sync". From my experience, this is not a problem created by the networks or the TV, but an audio delay that happens as a result of the signal traveling through components and passing from one component to another. I don't really know the real answer...LOL. We shall wait to see what the Dr's model number is.

Correct even the 5x series Elites have it.

The fact is, there are MANY reason why lip sync issues can occur. For example, it is well known that Directv has lip sync issues with NBC, Nat Geo, and a few other channels. Directv hasnt come out and said it, but its a common enough discussion on their boards its considered a known issue. Then there are as you mentioned hardware issues. Which is more prevalent? Who knows. But there are many reasons for lip sunc issues.
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post #22 of 29 Old 01-03-2013, 09:58 AM - Thread Starter
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This is probably why your bass is non existent. Im betting your receiver isnt seeing your sub, your +/- setting in the receiver is off, or some combo of the two.

Would that have any to do with my receiver saying Dial Norm +4 for BDs and Dial Norm -5 for DVDs?

And there is no button on my remote called Lip Synch. As for model, it is a VSX-30.

As for set up, I have TV HMDI going into the Receiver with HDMI going from the Receiver into my DVD player, BD player, and PS3.

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post #23 of 29 Old 01-03-2013, 11:13 AM
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DIalnorm has nothing to do with bass levels specifically. It is intended to allow automatic adjustment between different movies that have different average dialog levels (dialog normalization) so they all sound about the same loudness, at least in the dialog. It's metadata in the digital stream, and 4 (or -4, depending on how the particular device displays it) is basically the default value. Not always used on Dolby encodes, available but essentially never used for DTS (as I understand it).

If you have not atke nsteps to set your subwoofer's output to balance with the other speakers, it's possible the sub needs more signal from the receiver to get to the right level.

But if like many you listen well below "reference" things may sound bass shy, because of how humans' ears work. Equal loudness curves show that (very, very roughly) if you turn a movie down by 6 dB, the bass will sound like it's been turned down by more like 12 dB, because our ears are less sensitive to bass . . . . Some folks use a "house curve" (bass boost) to deal with this, some rely on software solutions in their receivers, and others just live with it (like pertty much everybody did until maybe 10 years ago or so). The old-fashioned "loudness" controls on some stereo devices are intended to get at this issue, too . . .
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post #24 of 29 Old 01-04-2013, 08:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

Would that have any to do with my receiver saying Dial Norm +4 for BDs and Dial Norm -5 for DVDs?
And there is no button on my remote called Lip Synch. As for model, it is a VSX-30.
As for set up, I have TV HMDI going into the Receiver with HDMI going from the Receiver into my DVD player, BD player, and PS3.

The VSX-30 has a "10 frame delay" lip sync...whatever that means...it will in fact allow you to make this adjustment. Do you have "monitor out" from the rear of the receiver connected to the TV so that you can view the on screen menu?

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post #25 of 29 Old 01-07-2013, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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The VSX-30 has a "10 frame delay" lip sync...whatever that means...it will in fact allow you to make this adjustment. Do you have "monitor out" from the rear of the receiver connected to the TV so that you can view the on screen menu?

Yes, I'm able to see the menu on the tv screen. That is how I test the speakers and sub to make sure they are plugged in.

BTW, I guess I should clarify what I mean by no bass. When I first moved into my new apartment and used Batman Begins as my test, I had this nice bass sound from every little thing in the movie. It sounded very rich. When I go to watch the movie now, I don't get anything like that outside of the parts with explosions and stuff. Hell, I just watched the first 3 Harry Potter movies and outside of a few specific scenes, it seemed like nothing was coming out of my sub.

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post #26 of 29 Old 01-07-2013, 11:40 AM
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Um.....hey Doc, what happened to the lip sync issue?

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post #27 of 29 Old 02-09-2014, 07:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Kain View Post

It still does it occasionally, but it only does it every few movies I watch and only for a few minutes.

Amirm, I wanted to ask though, if I plug the PS3 directly into the tv, how am I going to get the best lossless audio out of my receiver? Can it still detect DTS-HD and Dolby True HD even if it is not directly plugged into the receiver?

I was having the same issue with my new TV. I went from an older LG 42LN450 42" 60hz tv to a Samsung 55" UN55F6400. I have a Yamaha RX-V475 and everything ran through the receiver. My HTPC, Blu Ray and TV Audio (ARC). The HTPC and the TV (ARC) still are fine, no sync issues but the BD had em so I did what you said. I plugged the BD right into the TV and let the ARC handle the audio and WHAM, right on target. Or as they said in Aliens "Down the pipe 5 by 5".. That was the BD I was testing with and noticed the sync issues the most. PS. The BD Player is a Samsung BD-F5900. 

 

And anyone who complains about a noisy BD player doesn't have their volume high enough. ;) 

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post #28 of 29 Old 02-25-2014, 11:56 AM
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Well I started researching this a few moments ago and this is one of the first places that came up. After reading this thread I decided to share my experiences.

In the beginning when I switched to the digital world of TV delivery I was on cable. I had just purchased a Samsung Plasma TV. I already had a Sony 7.1 receiver. This setup all worked perfectly with no discernible delay between audio and video. The cable box was feeding the receiver with a toslink optical cable and the video went to the TV via HDMI. I also have a Samsung Blu Ray disc player with a similar setup. When I moved to FibeTV, again there were no issues. Now I have to renovate and decided to move the TV upstairs into the living room. Alas the Plasma and the new articulating arm wall mount and the wall did not get along to well. The weight deformed the studs enough that the TV would extend out the full length of the arm. So I decided ok an excuse to by something new. I purchased a Samsung UN60F6300. Since I can't put my stereo in my living room I purchased a Vizio sound bar with subwoofer. I went ok great I have an optical out on my TV and an optical in on the sound bar. I can listen to TV, use smart functions of the TV and get sound on the sound bar. I proceeded to hook up the FibTV box by HDMI to the TV. I went through the menus and turned off the TV speakers which sounded pitiful anyway and enabled the digital out. I said to myself hmmm whats this delay thingy below the enable check box, by default set to 30ms. I left it alone. I watched TV for a bit, its sounded pretty good and so decided to get Netflix working. I watched two movies and did not notice anything unusual. The next day I noticed that the TV broadcasts were somewhat out of sync. Sometime it was not noticable and sometimes very disconcerting. So I said ok lets play with the delay. What I discovered was that the video was ahead of the sound. Setting the delay to 0 made it better but not good enough to be unnoticeable. So I said ok, lets try feeding the sound bar from the FibeTV box. Hey guess what the delay is gone or not noticeable. It is still connected by toslink. So now I am not sure what I want to do. I might return the TV or the sound bar or both. I did find a Yamaha sound bar with dual Toslink inputs, I could get a sound bar that has dual hdmi that supports ARC. But I still have the BlueRay to hook up and I have not checkrd out this issue with it yet. I also will go back to Netflix and take a closer look.

 

Arrggg!!!

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post #29 of 29 Old 02-25-2014, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Garry925 View Post
 

Well I started researching this a few moments ago and this is one of the first places that came up. After reading this thread I decided to share my experiences.

In the beginning when I switched to the digital world of TV delivery I was on cable. I had just purchased a Samsung Plasma TV. I already had a Sony 7.1 receiver. This setup all worked perfectly with no discernible delay between audio and video. The cable box was feeding the receiver with a toslink optical cable and the video went to the TV via HDMI. I also have a Samsung Blu Ray disc player with a similar setup. When I moved to FibeTV, again there were no issues. Now I have to renovate and decided to move the TV upstairs into the living room. Alas the Plasma and the new articulating arm wall mount and the wall did not get along to well. The weight deformed the studs enough that the TV would extend out the full length of the arm. So I decided ok an excuse to by something new. I purchased a Samsung UN60F6300. Since I can't put my stereo in my living room I purchased a Vizio sound bar with subwoofer. I went ok great I have an optical out on my TV and an optical in on the sound bar. I can listen to TV, use smart functions of the TV and get sound on the sound bar. I proceeded to hook up the FibTV box by HDMI to the TV. I went through the menus and turned off the TV speakers which sounded pitiful anyway and enabled the digital out. I said to myself hmmm whats this delay thingy below the enable check box, by default set to 30ms. I left it alone. I watched TV for a bit, its sounded pretty good and so decided to get Netflix working. I watched two movies and did not notice anything unusual. The next day I noticed that the TV broadcasts were somewhat out of sync. Sometime it was not noticable and sometimes very disconcerting. So I said ok lets play with the delay. What I discovered was that the video was ahead of the sound. Setting the delay to 0 made it better but not good enough to be unnoticeable. So I said ok, lets try feeding the sound bar from the FibeTV box. Hey guess what the delay is gone or not noticeable. It is still connected by toslink. So now I am not sure what I want to do. I might return the TV or the sound bar or both. I did find a Yamaha sound bar with dual Toslink inputs, I could get a sound bar that has dual hdmi that supports ARC. But I still have the BlueRay to hook up and I have not checkrd out this issue with it yet. I also will go back to Netflix and take a closer look.

 

Arrggg!!!

 

Yeah, I had issues with sync at first, then tried to let the TV control the distribution of it all. That became a mess in itself. So I let the AVR do the work and I figured out the lipsync (45ms is my sweet spot). 

 

Though I'm running everything through HDMI. If you have a soundbar that supports HDMI, why not try and let that do everything? Ugh, I hate soundbars and all in one units for those reasons lol. 

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