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-   -   Tower Speakers Overpowering (http://www.avsforum.com/forum/91-audio-theory-setup-chat/1441365-tower-speakers-overpowering.html)

brent_b_23 11-25-2012 08:11 PM

I recently got a new receiver and was trying to integrate some tower speakers for a 9.2 ch setup but have been having an issue with them overpowering the center and producing very little separation from the center channel. I have tried lower output level on towers, increasing output level on center, and increasing cross over frequency to send more bass to the subs.
I have a second set of book shelf speakers (def tech sm350) that do a much better job of separating themselves from the center channel and creating a better surround sound effect.
Does anyone have any ideas of other things to try? Thanks.

Setup
RX-A2010
Subs -2 Energy VSW10
All Definitive Technology speakers:
Front - BP10-B
Presence - SM350
Center - CS8040HD
Rear - Pro Mon 1000
Rear surround - Pro Mon 800

drunkpenguin 11-28-2012 08:55 AM

I spent the last several years tweaking and tweaking my system because the center channel never could keep up with my LR towers. I upgraded receiver, added an amp, tried dual centers, added a sub to the center and was never happy with it. Treated my room, treated it some more, still not happy with the center channel. I had an infinity c360 center with infinity beta 50s for LR.

Finally as a last resort I bought another tower speaker for the center and BAM! There it was. The sound I had been missing all this time. Horizontal speakers just produce a different type o sound I guess. I don't know if a tower in the center is an option for you but try this, plug one or your towers in the center just for a test and you'll have an immediate upgrade bug. biggrin.gif

fbov 11-30-2012 11:12 AM

Looking at the components, the mfr. sells them fo ruse together, and while the CC's drivers are smaller, its sensitivity and power handling are equivalent. The only thing that may be at play from this end is the bipolar radiation pattern interacting strangely in your room.

How familiar are you with YPAO? Have you run the routine? How does it set speaker levels? Have you tried upping CC output at this point in teh process?

Have fun,
Frank

karlsaudio 12-03-2012 09:53 PM

Yes, three identical speakers across the front is ideal. Placement can be a problem however. A three or four foot tower in the middle could raise the TV a bit.

J_Palmer_Cass 12-04-2012 12:30 AM

How far apart are the R & L main speakers? If they are not spread far enough apart you will not hear the sound of speaker separation in an optimal way.

commsysman 12-04-2012 09:20 AM

I have seen this problem over and over.

The center speaker should NOT be putting out any bass; this should be entirely left to the towers and sub. The large oval radiator in that 8040 center speaker is the worst thing anyone ever put in a center speaker IMO. The guy who designed that speaker should be demoted to Janitor.

The solution, which has worked for me many many times is to go to a center speaker with smaller drivers and set it to ONLY operate above 120 HZ. These problems will go away when the center speaker is chosen and set up to operate in the midrange only.

One speaker I have used several times and always seems to work great is the Cambridge Audio S50.

Try it; you will see what I mean.

You have already found that the sound from the BP-10 speakers is of poor quality. This is what I have heard from them, and if it were me I would get some GOOD speakers to replace them. Their bipolar design makes them extremely difficult to place in a room to avoid acoustic disaster; this is a big part of your problem, I think

I suggest that you consider the KEF iQ70 speakers, which are half price now at KEF Direct. Those are FAR FAR better speakers than the BP-10.

Once you hear the IQ70 speakers, you will be amazed at how bad the BP10 speakers are, by comparison.

karlsaudio 12-04-2012 10:07 AM

So, out of curiousity, where does the 80 to 120 Hz "info" go from the center channel? And why a 120 Hz crossover? I just see a mathmatical flaw here. Please explain.

drunkpenguin 12-04-2012 11:04 AM

Everybody has an opinion but most set the crossover at 80hz. Anything below that will be sent to the sub. Depending on your speakers you an adjust this up or down some depending on what sounds best to you but whatever you set it to, everything below is takin out and given to the sub.

karlsaudio 12-05-2012 11:14 AM

Quote:
Originally Posted by drunkpenguin View Post

Everybody has an opinion but most set the crossover at 80hz. Anything below that will be sent to the sub. Depending on your speakers you an adjust this up or down some depending on what sounds best to you but whatever you set it to, everything below is takin out and given to the sub.

It has more to do with localization. 80 Hz seems to be the average frequency that people cannot tell where it is coming from. Sure, most subs can go up to the 120-150 Hz range. But you will start looking at it when it makes a noise in that range! I just feel that placing the crossover at the same level across the front makes more sense. Otherwise you will have a "bump" or "valley" in the sound field.


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