Looking for some input/thoughts on speaker setup for a room with off-center and limited placement options - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 16 Old 11-26-2012, 12:15 PM - Thread Starter
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I am finally getting around to updating my home theater setup now that my kids are a bit older. I plan on picking up a Pioneer SC-61 or Denon 3313CI receiver over the next few weeks to replace my old Pioneer Elite 45tx. I currently have a Revel B12 Subwoofer and some old Infinity Reference series speakers. I plan on replacing the Infiniti speakers but might keep the Revel Sub. I have built-in ceiling speakers that came with the house and am not looking to change them up so will just need to deal with those limitations. Those ceiling speakers face down just to each side of where the loveseat is.

Unfortunately my setup options are very limited. I have attached a picture of the setup (old picture with prior owners equipment but my speakers are similarly placed.) My first thought it to put a center channel speaker on a keyboard stand just behind the television and angle it slightly down. Another option would be to raise the TV on a higher stand and put the center channel below it.

My biggest question is what to do for the main speakers. Since these cannot be on the floor would I be better off going with bookshelf speakers rather than floor standing? This will be 70% HT and about 30% music, but little time for critical listening of music. The room pictured opens to the kitchen. Ceiling are approximately 12 feet. Budget is approximately $1200 for speakers (not including center).

I could potentially convince my wife to allow me to move the sub into the right corner of the room but it would be difficult. The current sub is 14" H x 13" W x 16" D and that leaves little space. I could go very slightly bigger in the enclosure but not much. I used to have a big HSU box sub and I will not be able to get away with that sitting in the corner of the room.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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post #2 of 16 Old 11-26-2012, 01:34 PM
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Hi,

With this current arrangement as seen on the photo I see no hope to get even a decent HT setup when it comes to speak about sound quality. Would you (or your better half) allow to move the sofa from the right side wall to the opposite side, because in that case you could build up your system on the right side wall. If affirmative, there will be tons of good advises from many knowledgable members. Just wait and see how many others will chime in. smile.gif

Cheers, Feri


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post #3 of 16 Old 11-26-2012, 02:35 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi,
With this current arrangement as seen on the photo I see no hope to get even a decent HT setup when it comes to speak about sound quality. Would you (or your better half) allow to move the sofa from the right side wall to the opposite side, because in that case you could build up your system on the right side wall. If affirmative, there will be tons of good advises from many knowledgable members. Just wait and see how many others will chime in. smile.gif

That would, without a doubt, result in a divorce. The best I can hope to do is move the subwoofer to a corner of the room.
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post #4 of 16 Old 11-26-2012, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mcw View Post

That would, without a doubt, result in a divorce. The best I can hope to do is move the subwoofer to a corner of the room.

In that case then best would be to forget the living room HT setup. Subwoofer in a corner will result in abnormal build up of uncontrollable boomy bass. We're talking about sound quality, not family matters, right? This is Da AVSForum!! Do you have a basement or an attic where you could setup your own mancave? cool.gifsmile.gifwink.gif

Cheers, Feri


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post #5 of 16 Old 11-27-2012, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

With this current arrangement as seen on the photo I see no hope to get even a decent HT setup

+1 – it’s a hopeless situation with the way the room is currently set up.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt





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post #6 of 16 Old 11-27-2012, 10:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post


+1 – it’s a hopeless situation with the way the room is currently set up.
Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Well then I guess the bright side of that is all the money I will save in not worrying about setting up anything special. Think I will still mount the center channel just over the TV but angled downward.
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post #7 of 16 Old 11-27-2012, 10:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

I am finally getting around to updating my home theater setup now that my kids are a bit older. I plan on picking up a Pioneer SC-61 or Denon 3313CI receiver over the next few weeks to replace my old Pioneer Elite 45tx. I currently have a Revel B12 Subwoofer and some old Infinity Reference series speakers. I plan on replacing the Infiniti speakers but might keep the Revel Sub. I have built-in ceiling speakers that came with the house and am not looking to change them up so will just need to deal with those limitations. Those ceiling speakers face down just to each side of where the loveseat is.

Unfortunately my setup options are very limited. I have attached a picture of the setup (old picture with prior owners equipment but my speakers are similarly placed.) My first thought it to put a center channel speaker on a keyboard stand just behind the television and angle it slightly down. Another option would be to raise the TV on a higher stand and put the center channel below it.

My biggest question is what to do for the main speakers. Since these cannot be on the floor would I be better off going with bookshelf speakers rather than floor standing? This will be 70% HT and about 30% music, but little time for critical listening of music. The room pictured opens to the kitchen. Ceiling are approximately 12 feet. Budget is approximately $1200 for speakers (not including center).

I could potentially convince my wife to allow me to move the sub into the right corner of the room but it would be difficult. The current sub is 14" H x 13" W x 16" D and that leaves little space. I could go very slightly bigger in the enclosure but not much. I used to have a big HSU box sub and I will not be able to get away with that sitting in the corner of the room.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I agree with the other posters who see no hope for the current setup.

I would recommend blocking off the little equipment nook with drywall and positioning the speakers across the newly flattened wall, starting with left front to the left of the fireplace.

If sound quality is important to you and you can't change the room enough, might I recommend some good Sennheiser wireless headphones?
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post #8 of 16 Old 11-29-2012, 07:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

I am finally getting around to updating my home theater setup now that my kids are a bit older. I plan on picking up a Pioneer SC-61 or Denon 3313CI receiver over the next few weeks to replace my old Pioneer Elite 45tx. I currently have a Revel B12 Subwoofer and some old Infinity Reference series speakers. I plan on replacing the Infiniti speakers but might keep the Revel Sub. I have built-in ceiling speakers that came with the house and am not looking to change them up so will just need to deal with those limitations. Those ceiling speakers face down just to each side of where the loveseat is.
Unfortunately my setup options are very limited. I have attached a picture of the setup (old picture with prior owners equipment but my speakers are similarly placed.) My first thought it to put a center channel speaker on a keyboard stand just behind the television and angle it slightly down. Another option would be to raise the TV on a higher stand and put the center channel below it.
My biggest question is what to do for the main speakers. Since these cannot be on the floor would I be better off going with bookshelf speakers rather than floor standing? This will be 70% HT and about 30% music, but little time for critical listening of music. The room pictured opens to the kitchen. Ceiling are approximately 12 feet. Budget is approximately $1200 for speakers (not including center).
I could potentially convince my wife to allow me to move the sub into the right corner of the room but it would be difficult. The current sub is 14" H x 13" W x 16" D and that leaves little space. I could go very slightly bigger in the enclosure but not much. I used to have a big HSU box sub and I will not be able to get away with that sitting in the corner of the room.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


that is when you need to use the microhpone to grab an impulse response file all the way down the wall, making certain the microphone tip is always touching the same space of air as the previous spot where you recorded an impulse response file.
then you just load 'em all up with the proper distance alignment.
you could do one line down the wall.. or you could the entire wall solid to get the entire wall removed.
is there a faster way to do it?
yes, infinite impulse response will charge up the room.. then you levy up the other side to zap it out and you keep the room there.
and then you have a sweep for the pressure level for all of the pressures.. that lets you put 18 inch woofers in the wall and let you lift up a nerf ball and hold it in the air.
you jst gotta hold the pressure down like a clamp no matter what music is playing.. that is the trick.
so if you walk into a room and it feels like a sudden change of pressure and the air is all fancy .. yep, you are gonna get the pressure put into you.


**edit**

and to help the other speaker, you need to find the ring of the room with the frequency sweep and twist the phase of the speaker at the loudest point to get the speaker to fill in the room.. that way you will get audio all the way to the door and beyond.
thanks to the impulse response files.. that other wall can virtually disappear.


**edit**

projection screen and replace the flower with a speaker is easier.

**edit**

if you wanted it bad enough, you would replace those windows with some new ones that have something inside the glass pane to block out the sun whenever you wanted.
that way the surface is nice and hard for the soundwaves to get calibrated.
the fireplace isnt going anywhere.. and the screen goes up and down, fits better with the couch, acoustics play better with those three walls, and you would be able to lay back and see without trying too hard (or if you did try hard, you would see more).

**edit**

yes.. make sure the edges of the microphone tips are touching or overlapping .
(and find some computers that will run a line of 'em.. and input the latency into the video to audio synchronization adjustment)
you dont need a bot net, but probably more than one computer.
shouldnt need it on more than one computer if you could dedicate parts of the cpu core to even an analog signal cut up into modulated pieces that help cut the latency down because the instances are divided.
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post #9 of 16 Old 11-29-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

I am finally getting around to updating my home theater setup now that my kids are a bit older. I plan on picking up a Pioneer SC-61 or Denon 3313CI receiver over the next few weeks to replace my old Pioneer Elite 45tx. I currently have a Revel B12 Subwoofer and some old Infinity Reference series speakers. I plan on replacing the Infiniti speakers but might keep the Revel Sub. I have built-in ceiling speakers that came with the house and am not looking to change them up so will just need to deal with those limitations. Those ceiling speakers face down just to each side of where the loveseat is.

Unfortunately my setup options are very limited. I have attached a picture of the setup (old picture with prior owners equipment but my speakers are similarly placed.) My first thought it to put a center channel speaker on a keyboard stand just behind the television and angle it slightly down. Another option would be to raise the TV on a higher stand and put the center channel below it.

My biggest question is what to do for the main speakers. Since these cannot be on the floor would I be better off going with bookshelf speakers rather than floor standing? This will be 70% HT and about 30% music, but little time for critical listening of music. The room pictured opens to the kitchen. Ceiling are approximately 12 feet. Budget is approximately $1200 for speakers (not including center).

I could potentially convince my wife to allow me to move the sub into the right corner of the room but it would be difficult. The current sub is 14" H x 13" W x 16" D and that leaves little space. I could go very slightly bigger in the enclosure but not much. I used to have a big HSU box sub and I will not be able to get away with that sitting in the corner of the room.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.




The old fireplace problem. To work around my fireplace, I placed one main speaker on the other side of the fireplace. The center speaker is near the center of the two main speakers up front. My 3 front speakers are located on the floor, and they do not look bad at all.
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post #10 of 16 Old 11-30-2012, 10:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi,
With this current arrangement as seen on the photo I see no hope to get even a decent HT setup when it comes to speak about sound quality....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wayne A. Pflughaupt View Post

+1 – it’s a hopeless situation with the way the room is currently set up.
Please forgive the perfectioniists in the group. We talk so much about what's ideal that we can forget that not everyone is in search of perfection... or values it like we do.

As Palmer notes, about the best you can do is try to align the L/R speakers with the walls, so the room is symetrically filled with sound, and try to get the CC as close to the screen (and the L/R speaker centerline) as you can. I'm thinking something very narrow would improve WAF. Modern AVRs with room correction routines like Audyssey will correct a lof of the resulting issues. Most folks will think it sounds fine, and discriminating ears will recognize that it's a living room first.

HAve fun,
Frank

PS If you do have to keep thing in the corner, consider a sound bar as a good compromise between cost and room impact when performance is already compromised.
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post #11 of 16 Old 11-30-2012, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcw View Post

I am finally getting around to updating my home theater setup now that my kids are a bit older. I plan on picking up a Pioneer SC-61 or Denon 3313CI receiver over the next few weeks to replace my old Pioneer Elite 45tx. I currently have a Revel B12 Subwoofer and some old Infinity Reference series speakers. I plan on replacing the Infiniti speakers but might keep the Revel Sub. I have built-in ceiling speakers that came with the house and am not looking to change them up so will just need to deal with those limitations. Those ceiling speakers face down just to each side of where the loveseat is.

Unfortunately my setup options are very limited. I have attached a picture of the setup (old picture with prior owners equipment but my speakers are similarly placed.) My first thought it to put a center channel speaker on a keyboard stand just behind the television and angle it slightly down. Another option would be to raise the TV on a higher stand and put the center channel below it.

My biggest question is what to do for the main speakers. Since these cannot be on the floor would I be better off going with bookshelf speakers rather than floor standing? This will be 70% HT and about 30% music, but little time for critical listening of music. The room pictured opens to the kitchen. Ceiling are approximately 12 feet. Budget is approximately $1200 for speakers (not including center).

I could potentially convince my wife to allow me to move the sub into the right corner of the room but it would be difficult. The current sub is 14" H x 13" W x 16" D and that leaves little space. I could go very slightly bigger in the enclosure but not much. I used to have a big HSU box sub and I will not be able to get away with that sitting in the corner of the room.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


I agree with the other posters who see no hope for the current setup.

I would recommend blocking off the little equipment nook with drywall and positioning the speakers across the newly flattened wall, starting with left front to the left of the fireplace.

If sound quality is important to you and you can't change the room enough, might I recommend some good Sennheiser wireless headphones?





Blocking off that equipment nook is another AVS recommendation that is very poor recommendation. Dumb.

In the old days one of the AVS pefectionistas told me to get rid of my fireplace. Dumber.

Seems like people have watched the movie Dumb and Dumber one time too many!

Where do you recommend that he place the TV after he blocks off that TV nook? I would keep the TV placed as far left in that nook as practical (depending on the new seating plan).
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post #12 of 16 Old 11-30-2012, 04:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by J_Palmer_Cass View Post

Blocking off that equipment nook is another AVS recommendation that is very poor recommendation. Dumb.

If you're interested in ancient concepts such as tact and diplomacy, you might want to experiment with"I disagree" ;-)
Quote:
In the old days one of the AVS pefectionistas told me to get rid of my fireplace. Dumber.

I never said that, and in fact I'd recommend keeping it. FWIW there's a fireplace in my AV room...
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Where do you recommend that he place the TV after he blocks off that TV nook?

On the continuous wall that would result, closer to the viewers and closer to the center of the room.
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I would keep the TV placed as far left in that nook as practical (depending on the new seating plan).

I disagree!
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post #13 of 16 Old 12-01-2012, 05:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the thoughts. Blocking off the equipment nook is not an option. After talking to my wife, she would probably agree to a floorstanding speaker in each corner and the TV moved to the leftmost position in the nook. The speakers would need to be pretty close to the walls however.

If forced to keep my current setup, I am still wondering if it would be better to just replace the floor standing speakers with a bookshelf speakers put on tiny stands so at least they are listening level.

I realize this is not optimal but I am not interested in selling my house or getting a divorce. Just looking to make the best of the current situation.
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post #14 of 16 Old 12-01-2012, 08:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by mcw View Post

I am not interested in selling my house or getting a divorce.

lousy choices get lousy responses.

how dare a person spend $400 on a television panel when they should of gotten a projector for the same $400
it is that bloody spot on the table .. it is empty, and only one thing can fit there.
the same amount of money.
the different result for each product brought home creates triangles .. and those triangles grow out like tree branches.
at the tip of the triangle is, again, the same amount of money and one or the other.

perfect can exist .. and sometimes quick and easy is jst too small to see and stop for.
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post #15 of 16 Old 12-02-2012, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mcw View Post

Thanks for the thoughts. Blocking off the equipment nook is not an option. After talking to my wife, she would probably agree to a floorstanding speaker in each corner and the TV moved to the leftmost position in the nook. The speakers would need to be pretty close to the walls however.

If forced to keep my current setup, I am still wondering if it would be better to just replace the floor standing speakers with a bookshelf speakers put on tiny stands so at least they are listening level.

I realize this is not optimal but I am not interested in selling my house or getting a divorce. Just looking to make the best of the current situation.


A bookshelf speaker on a stand or floor standing speakers are almost the same difference to me. Place a subwoofer out of the way in the right corner if possible.

Do you own any speakers at the moment? If not maybe look into surface wall mounted speakers just for evaluation purposes.

Here is an article about an out of production surface mounted speaker.

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/nht-evolution-l5-home-theater-speaker-system
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post #16 of 16 Old 12-02-2012, 03:01 AM
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If you wish to go wall mounted, the current production NHT wall mounted speaker can be seen here:


http://www.nhthifi.com/Home-Theater-On-Wall-Speakers
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