Deep bass is fantastic, and the SO really enjoys the sound sound of my new setup, but now she wants to hang picture frames... - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
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The set-up is on the main floor in the family room/great room and Its going to be static for a few month's once I add a second sub so now the SO wants to add picture frames and decorate (we just moved in recently). She didn't buy my argument that traps would make the room look modern (I'm kidding on that one)...So basically I want to mount the frames so that they don't resonate the sound produced in the room. Mounting would likely extend to other rooms on the main floor to avoid unnecessary vibrations as well. My walls are typical new construction (drywall and studs). Can anyone suggest a method to mount picture frames so they are not impacted by bass etc?

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post #2 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 07:54 AM
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What about stretched canvas prints ? They almost look like they would be good acoustic treatments. I wonder if there is something you could put in the back of them to make them better treatments? I think I will start a thread on this...

HT: Yamaha RX-V565 | 3 X Energy Take FPS, 2 X VS Surround, 2 X Take LCR | DIY Subs: SDX12 APR15 & TRIO12 Dual APR 12's | 47" LCD

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post #3 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by caper_1 View Post

What about stretched canvas prints ? They almost look like they would be good acoustic treatments. I wonder if there is something you could put in the back of them to make them better treatments? I think I will start a thread on this...

Stretched canvas is not a very good sound absorber, but figure out how to put 2-4 inches a fibrous material (rock wool, cotton fiber, fiberglass) with the right density (acoustic grade, not thermal grade) behind the canvas and if the paintings are large enough, they might help.
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post #4 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 08:11 AM - Thread Starter
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unfortunately its going to be exclusively framed pictures which probably means wood frames with glass.

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post #5 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by busb0y View Post

unfortunately its going to be exclusively framed pictures which probably means wood frames with glass.

Glass is just about the ultimate sound reflector. Where I come from, putting glass in front of art is considered to be tacky, cheap and nouveau riche.

Now a really deep frame that concealed a thick layer of the right absorbant material behind the picture would be pretty cool.









etc.
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post #6 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 10:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

Glass is just about the ultimate sound reflector. Where I come from, putting glass in front of art is considered to be tacky, cheap and nouveau riche.
Now a really deep frame that concealed a thick layer of the right absorbant material behind the picture would be pretty cool.




etc.

do you have links for those (first and third)? They look interesting.

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post #7 of 11 Old 12-06-2012, 02:05 PM
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I'm seeing one question, and two answers:

Ques: How can I hang pictures so they won't rattle in response to low bass?

Ans: If you make the frames this way (or that), they'll absorb sound!

Huhhh?

To prevent noise from wall hangings, I suggest a bit of absorber where they touch the wall. I'm thinking little rubber feet on the lower corners of a frame hung from a nail. Now, if you produce prodigious bass, you could mount things on standoffs so they' don't actually touch the wall. You'll also want to make sure everything's tight, as the framed picture could have a buzz in it.

Now, if your SO likes textile prints, you have some opportunity for hanging absorber panels...

And a glass-front frame with a sealed cavity behind the glass just needs a a little stuffing to become an effective diaphragmatic absorber.

HAve fun,
Frank
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post #8 of 11 Old 12-07-2012, 06:26 AM - Thread Starter
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I've decided to try the shadow box route with X type of stuffing behind Y material on which the picture will be mounted. Can anyone define what X and Y should be ideally?

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post #9 of 11 Old 12-07-2012, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by busb0y View Post

I've decided to try the shadow box route with X type of stuffing behind Y material on which the picture will be mounted. Can anyone define what X and Y should be ideally?

Ideally the picture is on a thin substrate such as canvas, thin plastic sheet (e.g. Tyvek) or paper. To maintain flatness, stretching is good.

Ideally the material behind the picture is plastic foam, cotton batts, fiberglass, or mineral wool. IME Cotton or foam is probably the nicest of the bunch to work with. IME mineral wool is probably the worst to work with. Mineral wool and fiberglass can be highly irritating to essential organs such as the lungs, so protective breathing devices (even just cheap face masks) are recommended.

The ideal density of the sound absorbing material behind the picture depends on its thickness. Generally thicker absorbers use less dense absorbent material.

Here is a downloadable spread sheet that you can use to model sound absorbers with:

http://www.whealy.com/acoustics/Porous.html

Here is a vendor who has a range of candidate products:

http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--Fiberglass-and-Mineral-Wool-Batts-and-Boards--106.html This has ample competition both online and in most localities. Google is your friend. Shipping costs can be significant so local can be good.
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post #10 of 11 Old 12-07-2012, 09:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by busb0y View Post

I've decided to try the shadow box route with X type of stuffing behind Y material on which the picture will be mounted. Can anyone define what X and Y should be ideally?
Before you go there, how does the system sound and what is there on the walls right now? How much furnishing do you already have the room? And where will the pictures go relative to your speakers and listening position?

The reason I ask is that reflections can actually be a good thing. Creating absorbers out of the pictures with random characteristics may actually make your system sound worse, not better. The links Arny has given you are not going to give you good data for the complex device you are building with the picture frame and stuff behind it.

If your system sounds good with bare walls right now, then putting traditional picture frames on them is not going to make things worse. The wall is reflective now and will continue to be reflective with a picture frame on it.

If your space is quite large and you are adding a few picture frames, likely you won't even notice anything changing.

If your room is very bare, with a hardwood floor for example, adding a carpet there will do far more good than messing around with the pictures.

These topics can be quite complex (see http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/RoomReflections.html). The Internet discussions often chase non-goals or solution for one thing aimed at another (e.g. none of what is discussed is a "bass trap").

My pragmatic suggestion is let your wife build the picture frames as she wishes and makes your room pretty. Put felt pads behind the frame to keep it from rattling against the wall. This is a living room. Not a studio smile.gif. Let it be aesthetically pleasing. As I explained messing with them for the sake of audio improvement is throwing random darts at the wall smile.gif. You will do far better for your sound optimizing the two subs with their location and EQ than any of this. And that solution doesn't require dealing with anything that is visible (http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/BassOptimization.html). Remember, the people giving you advice are not the ones who will be living with you and your wife. smile.gif

Amir
Founder, Madrona Digital
"Insist on Quality Engineering"

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post #11 of 11 Old 12-07-2012, 09:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by amirm View Post

Before you go there, how does the system sound and what is there on the walls right now? How much furnishing do you already have the room? And where will the pictures go relative to your speakers and listening position?
The reason I ask is that reflections can actually be a good thing. Creating absorbers out of the pictures with random characteristics may actually make your system sound worse, not better. The links Arny has given you are not going to give you good data for the complex device you are building with the picture frame and stuff behind it.
If your system sounds good with bare walls right now, then putting traditional picture frames on them is not going to make things worse. The wall is reflective now and will continue to be reflective with a picture frame on it.
If your space is quite large and you are adding a few picture frames, likely you won't even notice anything changing.
If your room is very bare, with a hardwood floor for example, adding a carpet there will do far more good than messing around with the pictures.
These topics can be quite complex (see http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/RoomReflections.html). The Internet discussions often chase non-goals or solution for one thing aimed at another (e.g. none of what is discussed is a "bass trap").
My pragmatic suggestion is let your wife build the picture frames as she wishes and makes your room pretty. Put felt pads behind the frame to keep it from rattling against the wall. This is a living room. Not a studio smile.gif. Let it be aesthetically pleasing. As I explained messing with them for the sake of audio improvement is throwing random darts at the wall smile.gif. You will do far better for your sound optimizing the two subs with their location and EQ than any of this. And that solution doesn't require dealing with anything that is visible (http://www.madronadigital.com/Library/BassOptimization.html). Remember, the people giving you advice are not the ones who will be living with you and your wife. smile.gif

Very well put. Thank you for the links and perspective. I think I have some home work to do.

To everyone else that replied your suggestions are appreciated, and once again confirms how awesome everyone on this site is.

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