Quite a connundrum, if I do say so - AVS Forum
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Old 01-05-2013, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi there thanks for taking the time to read this...
My theatre is (4) Cerwin Vega MX-400 towers (each is a siren, midrange 4.75", and a 15" subwoofer). They are connected to my Yamaha Rx-V667 and I used the preouts, preamping them with two seperate Crown XLS amps.

Here is my problem, I think. They are different, and have slightly different output. The Vegas are 400rms, it was difficult for me to find amps exactly on 400 at 4ohms with 2 channels. One is the XLS1000 (350X2 @ 4ohm). The other is the XLS402 (450X2 @ 4ohm).

I have many questions and theorys, but my problem is basically that I dont get enough bass response, especially from the two plugged into the xls1000. There are many varaibles in this, from the fact that my 402 uses rca/XLR whereas my xls uses rca/rca.

My Receiver has "large" as an option for the front speakers only. The manual says it diverts the rest of the bass from the other speakers to the large. But, I want all four of my towers to bump, I have friends with smaller subs in and out of towers that arent getting nearly as much power, and are booming.

Ill post pictures if anyone wants to see.

IMPORTANT: My room is VERY small for these speakers. They are vertically stacked on either side of my tv. inB4 "thats not proper positioning... cancelling... or anything else. I know."
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Old 01-05-2013, 07:06 PM
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Amplifiers need not match the power rating of the speaker. Ignoring for a moment that both amp and speaker ratings can be and are generated with many methods and test setups often differing from one manufacturer to the next, some giving quite different results, and many rather suspect, the ratings are only a guideline.

Speaker ratings are a power handling, hopefully giving you an idea of how much power they can tolerate for extended periods of time without melting. It rarely has any correlation with the amount needed to achieve desired loudness, or what they can handle for short bursts.

Amplifier ratings sometimes mean sustained output, sometimes burst/peak, sometimes into 4 ohms and sometimes into other loads.

Both of your amps are likely sufficient to provide plenty of power for a speaker likely to be sensitive/efficient like your cv's. One amp may (would have to look up their specs) have a slightly different gain structure than the other, which would require simple adjustments of the gain knobs to balance say left and right. That could be done with a dimple radioshack spl meter and test tones. I would alternatively suggest for your setup using one amp for left and right tops, the other for left and right bottoms. That will assure close to identical gain left and right. Adjust top and bottom gains then to taste.

Lack of bass is probably due to something else. Likely the way your avr is setup. More info is needed.

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Old 01-05-2013, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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What do you want to know? Ive tried about 5 different configurations. Right now they are bridged and the amps are bridge bypass mode. I am certain that neither pairs of speakers are preforming to their potential. I have my crossovers at 80hz on the receiver... is there a way to change the internal ones? The left set, powered by the xls1000, produces higher frequencys, and voices, though all the speakers including the sub, and has less bass. They are the "rear" speakers where as the front right are the "front" ones, set to large
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:47 AM
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I'm not entirely sure I understand what you are trying to accomplish or why, buy here are my initial recommendations. Try this and let us know how it works.

Run your avr in stereo mode, don't use any surround processing and don't use the rear outputs. Take the front right preamp output and split it using a common Y connector easily obtained from radioshack and elsewhere. Its two outputs go to the upper and lower speakers on the right side of your room. Do the same for the left. And again, especially with this change, I recommend using one amp for the left and right tip speakers, the other for left and right bottoms. So the right Y connects to right channel of both amps, each going to the right upper or lower speaker. Same for left.

Avoiding as you requested the issues caused by stacking towers, I'm not sure why you are running one side as fronts and the other as rears. I can't think of any good reason for that. Maybe you have one. But if your avr does not allow large as an option for rears then you are removing all the bass from two of your speakers. Sending it to the other two does no good since a given speaker can only produce so much sound. Not to mention the rear channels will contain less mid/high energy as well. Since all speakers are up front, it makes as much sense as anything else to use your avr as stereo with front left and right only. Well, if you had said you were experimenting with using the top pair as a sort of rear surround to add some ambiance to a severely placement limited room that might be worth discussing, but I'm pretty sure that isn't the case.

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Old 01-06-2013, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benisnumerouno View Post

What do you want to know?

Oh, say the make and model of the AVR.
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benisnumerouno View Post

Hi there thanks for taking the time to read this...
My theatre is (4) Cerwin Vega MX-400 towers (each is a siren, midrange 4.75", and a 15" subwoofer). They are connected to my Yamaha Rx-V661

Rx-V661
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Old 01-06-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Bigus: I am trying to have all 4 of my towers have the same sound output, including rich lows, where as now they are playing uneven.

Arnryk I posted my model.

My AVR is in stereo mode (right now, it is 2 channel) I will get the Y connectors from my spare parts, and switch it to 7.1 channel stereo



Currently I have both amps bridged bypass, and all 4 speakers bridged, with 1 pair (as one bridged load) connected to each amp. Each amp is then plugged into my L or R front preout. I was trying to accomplish the same thing without using a y connector-- put two speakers to front l and front r each. Instead it was giving the 'front' output to the right preout and the 'rear' output to the left speakers.

I don't want to run one side as fronts and one as rears, that is just what my avr was requring me to do. I don't need ambient rear speakers because these have ability to reproduce most sounds. Thanks for your answer Im going to post later results
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Old 01-06-2013, 12:37 PM
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Well, that sounds strange. I would have bet that no avr had an option to route rear surround channels to either front left or right outputs. And if in stereo mode, your avr shouldn't be generating it processing any rear channel information anyway.

My guess is still that this is all setup related, probably combination of avr surround mode and crossover settings and possibly the way the amps and speakers are wired as well.

I'm not sure what a bridged speaker is supposed to mean. Perhaps it would be better to just describe the actual wiring, such as positive of amp to positive of speaker X, negative of speaker X to....

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Old 01-06-2013, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Speaker wiring: speakers 1 and 2 (top left and right) are connected to amp A. Speakers 3 and 4 (bottom left and right) are connected to amp B.

Channel 1 (white) of amp A and Channel 1 (White) of amp B are connected to a Y connector (call this Y connector A). Channel 2 (red) of either amp to a y connector (Y connector B). The cords from amp a are all rca/rca. The cords from amp b are xlr/ male rca. They are plugged in to the white and red front pre outs on my Rx-v661 respectively.

With this new set up I am having two different problems. Amp A is only producing sound on speaker 2 (top right). Top left is silent, i got it working for a second by wiggling the y connector, but it started to crack and faded out again.

Amp B is producing sound from both speakers. I have more bass replication on speaker 4 than speaker 3 (which seems to still want to play higher ranges).

Also, the each gain nob on amp a corresponds to a channel as it should. it seems amp B has a single gain nob for both speakers and one that is not conrolling either speaker.


Note: Amp A has the ability to be configured, so It is in stereo bypass mode right now. There is a HP/Lp/ Xover setting on it. This is one of the amps only
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Old 01-07-2013, 09:53 PM
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With this configuration, the left top and bottom should sound identical as you are using identical speaker. Same for the right. If this isn't the case, you could have speakers with nonfunctioning drivers, malfunctioning amps, amps not configured the same, or some mix of the three. I'm not sure which is your case.

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Old 01-08-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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I refoamed all 4 woofers when I got them. The amps are all functioning *I think* because they were new in box, and crown is a great company. Amps may not be configured the same, can you help me do that
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