Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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post #271 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 04:53 AM
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The 'standard' for graphs to be posted to the thread over at HTS is:

 

The preferred axis for ALL subwoofer graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-200Hz
.



The preferred axis for full range graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-25,000Hz
.


These values are defaulted into REW, but can easily change and must be set back to these axis for posting graphs.

 


Smoothing:

Smoothing should not be applied to subwoofer graphs. For full range graphs, 1/3 or 1/6-octave smoothing is beneficial.

The HTS graph standard is as below - you will see that they require logarithmic graphs, not linear:

 

 

 

 

 

Set the graph type by clicking the Freq Axis button.

 

 

 

 

With thanks to HTS for the information in this post.

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post #272 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 07:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The preferred axis for ALL subwoofer graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-200Hz
.



 

 

Wow, Keith, this seems to be an unfair standard.  What about those of us who have multiple subwoofers of and unnamed brand that have flat response all the way down to 10Hz?  I don't want to mention any names here, but aren't we depriving those participants the opportunity of their bragging rights?      wink.gif

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post #273 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Wow, Keith, this seems to be an unfair standard.  What about those of us who have multiple subwoofers of and unnamed brand that have flat response all the way down to 10Hz?  I don't want to mention any names here, but aren't we depriving those participants the opportunity of their bragging rights?      wink.gif

Oooops Jerry, I think we are running into some trouble zone here. The UMIK-1 usb mic is spec'd down to 15 Hz, only!! And what about folks with subs in the 1 digit ULF (ultra low frequency) range? What mic do they use for their test?
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post #274 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 07:30 AM
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I don't think 1/3rd smoothing is adequate for the upper frequencies. A narrow band large amplitude peak at, say, 5k would be audible but would not show up on the charts. There is a particular very expensive high end speaker that has such a peak at 10k that is quite audible. I would like to suggest nothing less than 1/6th smoothing.

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post #275 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 08:55 AM
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Getting Started with REW:  A Step-by-Step Guide
 
The purpose of this document is to provide a step-by-step guide for novice users of Room Equalization Wizard, freeware audio measurement software authored by John Mulkahy. This guide focuses on the recent enhancements to REW that support the use of USB microphones. You are encouraged to visit the REW forum, and to thoroughly read the REW Online Help documents.
 
 
REW User Guide Rev 3.9, October 21, 2014 -- https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...101%20v3.9.pdf

Last edited by AustinJerry; 11-26-2014 at 06:20 AM.
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post #276 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

The preferred axis for ALL subwoofer graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-200Hz
.



 

 

Wow, Keith, this seems to be an unfair standard.  What about those of us who have multiple subwoofers of and unnamed brand that have flat response all the way down to 10Hz?  I don't want to mention any names here, but aren't we depriving those participants the opportunity of their bragging rights?      wink.gif

 

LOL. I did think that as I posted it... but you know, those of us with subs flat to 10Hz, or even lower, don't like to rub it in. Well, not too much.... ;)

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post #277 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Wow, Keith, this seems to be an unfair standard.  What about those of us who have multiple subwoofers of and unnamed brand that have flat response all the way down to 10Hz?  I don't want to mention any names here, but aren't we depriving those participants the opportunity of their bragging rights?      wink.gif

Oooops Jerry, I think we are running into some trouble zone here. The UMIK-1 usb mic is spec'd down to 15 Hz, only!! And what about folks with subs in the 1 digit ULF (ultra low frequency) range? What mic do they use for their test?

 

I’d have preferred to see the range specced from 7Hz - 200Hz personally, because now I will have to make that graph for myself <smug grin> and then make another for posting here. Fortunately, REW is a huge step up from OM in that regard and at least I will only have to measure once. ;)

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post #278 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I don't think 1/3rd smoothing is adequate for the upper frequencies. A narrow band large amplitude peak at, say, 5k would be audible but would not show up on the charts. There is a particular very expensive high end speaker that has such a peak at 10k that is quite audible. I would like to suggest nothing less than 1/6th smoothing.

I agree with you - we could change the standard for this thread to 1/6th smoothing for full range graphs - HST allow either, so we would still be compatible.

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post #279 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:27 AM
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I can thoroughly recommend that everyone downloads Jerry's step-by-step Guide. Without it (and Feri's help) I would not have got to the measuring stage. It is a terrific piece of work and I thank Jerry sincerely for the time and effort he has put in to this.

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post #280 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:31 AM
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@Austin

Thanks for your help earlier and now this S by S should be a massive help. Excellent work...
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post #281 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:37 AM
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The 'standard' for graphs to be posted to the thread over at HTS is:

 

The preferred axis for ALL subwoofer graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-200Hz
.



The preferred axis for full range graphs is:

VERTICAL = 45dB-105dB
HORIZONTAL = 15Hz-25,000Hz
.


These values are defaulted into REW, but can easily change and must be set back to these axis for posting graphs.

 


Smoothing:

Smoothing should not be applied to subwoofer graphs. For full range graphs, 1/6-octave smoothing is beneficial.

The HTS graph standard is as below - you will see that they require logarithmic graphs, not linear:

 

 

 

 

 

Set the graph type by clicking the Freq Axis button.

 

 

 

 

With thanks to HTS for the information in this post.

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post #282 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Getting Started with REW:  A Step-by-Step Guide

 

 

The purpose of this document is to provide a step-by-step guide for novice users of Room Equalization Wizard, freeware audio measurement software authored by John Mulkahy.  This guide focuses on the recent enhancements to REW that support the use of USB microphones and HDMI connectivity to the AVR.  You are encouraged to visit the REW forum, and to thoroughly read the REW Cabling Basics and the REW Online Help documents.  Suggestions to improve this document are welcome.  Please direct your comments and corrections by sending a PM to AVS Forum user AustinJerry.  Heartfelt thanks to AVS Forum user KBarnes701 for his assistance in creating this guide.

 

 

 

REW 101 v1-4.pdf 3,625k .pdf file

 

 

 

Revision History:

 

Jan 13, 2013 - Initial release

 

Jerry - I have linked to this post in my post (No 9) which is where the FAQ will eventually go, so that newcomers to the thread will find the link to your Guide on the thread's first page.

 

I have also posted the 'graph standards' in that post for now (for the same reason).

 

Link to the post in question is here.

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post #283 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 10:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

 

Jerry - I have linked to this post in my post (No 9) which is where the FAQ will eventually go, so that newcomers to the thread will find the link to your Guide on the thread's first page.

 

I have also posted the 'graph standards' in that post for now (for the same reason).

 

Link to the post in question is here.

 

Thanks, Keith.  I'm looking forward to hearing that the guide has helped people overcome the REW start-up hump.

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post #284 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

If however, you created the averaged measurement from individual measurements with smoothing already applied, you won't be able to see the maximum resolution (No Smoothing) at a later time, unless you take all the individual measurements again and average them again AFTER individually setting them to No Smoothing.


Max

 

Max,

 

I don't think it makes any difference whether smoothing has been applied or not when you save a set of measurements.  Please consider the following example:

 

 

Two measurements, no smoothing:

 

 

Same measurements, 1/3 smoothing:

 

 

I now save the measurements with 1/3 smoothing applied, and then remove the measurements from REW.

 

Subsequently, I load the saved measurements, select the same original two measurements, and click on "No smoothing".  The result:

 

 

Clearly, none of the original detail has been "lost".  My understanding is that measurement data never changes.  Smoothing, changing horizontal and vertical scales, etc. only change the way the underlying data is represented, and never alters the data itself.  This is the way I would hope that it works, and my extensive use of REW confirms this to be true.

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post #285 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by djbluemax1 View Post

If however, you created the averaged measurement from individual measurements with smoothing already applied, you won't be able to see the maximum resolution (No Smoothing) at a later time, unless you take all the individual measurements again and average them again AFTER individually setting them to No Smoothing.



Max
 
Max,
 
I don't think it makes any difference whether smoothing has been applied or not when you save a set of measurements.  Please consider the following example:
 
 
Two measurements, no smoothing:




Same measurements, 1/3 smoothing:




I now save the measurements with 1/3 smoothing applied, and then remove the measurements from REW.

Subsequently, I load the saved measurements, select the same original two measurements, and click on "No smoothing".  The result:



 
Clearly, none of the original detail has been "lost".  My understanding is that measurement data never changes.  Smoothing, changing horizontal and vertical scales, etc. only change the way the underlying data is represented, and never alters the data itself.  This is the way I would hope that it works, and my extensive use of REW confirms this to be true.
You got those results because you're using single individual measurements. The tip was specifically about a single line averaged from multiple measurements.

You can try the example I detailed in my post, of taking 6 different individual measurements, each set for 1/3 smoothing and clicking the 'average responses' (or whatever that button in the bottom left corner is labeled). You now cannot get a No Smoothing result from this averaged response. You can set it to No Smoothing, but the line will still look like a graph with 1/3 smoothing.


Max
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post #286 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 02:43 PM
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Well, in the case of an average produced by measurements that have been smoothed to say 1/3, simply delete the average, change the original measurements to a different smoothing (say 1/12), and re-generate the average.  The average now looks completely different, and is indeed an average of the 1/12-smoothed measurements.  Am I misunderstanding what you are saying?

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post #287 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 05:02 PM
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I excitedly was reading through the new REW step-by-step instructions until I came the part about what to do if either you mic and/or your HDMI device show "idle". That is where I am stuck. Oh well, I guess I will just keep waiting, using OmniMic and see what happens.

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post #288 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 05:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

I excitedly was reading through the new REW step-by-step instructions until I came the part about what to do if either you mic and/or your HDMI device show "idle". That is where I am stuck. Oh well, I guess I will just keep waiting, using OmniMic and see what happens.

I hear you. When I first started testing ASIO4ALL, I had the same problem in the ASIO control panel. My HD audio device was showing idle, and no amount of clicking would enable it. You may recall a previous posting of mine, where I reported that a completely fresh install of Windows cleared up this problem. IMO, the ASIO4ALL software is a bit flakey. I would hate to think that others like yourself would need to re-install,Windows to get it to work. However, if you haven't tried yet, you could uninstall and re- install ASIO4ALL to see if this helps.
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post #289 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 05:30 PM
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I purchased this laptop used from a local PC store and they aren't going to install this for free. I have already spent the $100 for the USB mic and have no interest in spending more in the "hope" that it might solve the problem. It is these kinds of issues that drove me away from REW the first time. I will wait a bit longer to see if someone either on this site or HTS comes up with a solution, If not, I will just sell the USB mic and continue with OM (which I should have done in the first place).

But I will say it again: anyone who uses anything that sounds like plug-n-play in the same sentence (or paragraph) as REW is being disingenuous. OM and XTZ are plug-n-play. REW is NOT and the fact that REW (on random occasions) recognizes the USB mic does not make that plug-n-play either.

I would recommend to anyone who is not a masochist to wait until all of these issues have answers (other than reloading the operating system) and a clean fully fleshed out step-by-step set of instructions that have consistent results exists to stay away.

I am mightily impressed with what has been put together in the step-by-step instructions. It's just that there are too many variables at the moment (at least that has been my experience on multiple attempts to make progress) within REW/Windows to make it even an easier to use system but, if it is possible, it certainly seems that those who are working on this will be able to finally make it work consistently.

The fact that some have obviously worked through this mess (by posting graphs) is even more frustrating since I have a reasonable technical background (in the computer and technology business for over 30 years) and am yet unable to make progress.

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post #290 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 05:45 PM
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Note that nowhere in the guide did I use the words "Plug and Play". Please remain positive until we have USB microphones to test.
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post #291 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 06:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Jason - when you have finished with the above post, let me know and I will delete it, along with this one.

One suggestion - don't use caps for complete phrases or sentences -- caps are harder to read than upper and lower case text and put people off. I have left them as they were because the AVS editor doesn't allow me to easily change them. If I had had more foresight I would have copied it into Word first, then changed the caps en masse to u/lc and then pasted it to my test editor and then finally to the AVS editor.

Don't worry too much about format at this stage - let's get the meat of it sorted and then I can format it all, create hyperlinks etc when I start the FAQ proper.

Keith,

Thanks for taking the time to do this.

I will make sure I don't use caps any more. I actually, initially didn't. I formatted it in Word, then when I copied it over it was all jumbled up, so the easiest thing (I thought so, at the time at least) was to take it back to a simple text file and the type of formatting I had changed the "tips" into all caps for some reason??

Sorry I've been away for a few days. As you can see, I'm just now getting caught up.

I edited the 2nd post but the bullet points didn't copy over??

I just copied/pasted but it still doesn't look exactly like what you did.

I guess it doesn't matter too much at this point.

I will get caught up on all the posts and answer any/all questions that are either unanswered or directed towards me.

If you or anyone else needs anything in the mean time or anything else in the future, it's quite okay to send me a PM and direct me to a post in this thread.

As I stated in the beginning, I was a bit hesitant to start the thread only because I can't give it as much time as I really want to.

I will try to keep up with things as best I can and I will try to post more quality and informative posts than quantity and I believe with you, Feri, Jerry, et al all the common questions will be figured out and answered which will hopefully allow me to concentrate more on the big picture stuff like the how to's and why's which I'm actually working on now.

Thanks for everything,

--J

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post #292 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Note that nowhere in the guide did I use the words "Plug and Play". Please remain positive until we have USB microphones to test.

It was not you who used plug-n-play. It was someone else. And I will stay "positive" or at least patient!

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post #293 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 06:32 PM
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AustinJerry damn impressive instruction guide. You must have done this type of stuff in a former life cool.gif Thanks for pulling that together and giving it a great start.

I know like the FAQ's and all other living documents they will be dynamic and grow with this starter thread.

Thanks to all for adding their two cents and inputs. I know we are all at various steps in this process, but we are only a few clicks apart I think. If this support as I have some to see and like from many of the AVS forums, we will get everyone clicking on all cylinders.

I hope to have a quiet night or day without family to give a more serious stab at my real first set of graphs and post them and look for your feedback.

Keep up the good work all!

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post #294 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 07:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrfattbill View Post

Can one use the mic that comes with the Omni-mic system with REW? I mean the OMM cal file is nothing more then a text file at its heart, at least right clicking it and editing it with Notepad++ shows it just like the Radioshack generic cal file that you can download for use the REW.


Am I off base here?


Bill


I believe Keith has tried this as well, and got it working. While using the OM mic will allow you to hone your REW skills, I don't think the calibration file that you are using will provide accurate measurements in REW. I could be wrong. Why don't you ask the question on the OmniMic thread--can the OM mic be used with REW, and does the OM calibration file, when used with REW, provide accurate measurements? Many OM users might like to hear the answer.

I can confirm the mic works in the sense that it acts like a mic - how accurate it is will be anyone's guess. I have to say that the graphs mine produced did not look like the results I get when using OM itself so I suspect that the mic is only useful for testing at this stage. If we can use a cal file with it, then it could be a solution.

The OM Mic itself is just a standard condensor mic just like all the others, so it by itself will work with no problem.

However, there are too many unknowns for me to be able to recommend it as the sole test/measurement mic.

Some of the reasons are that the calibration file (according to a post a few pages back, I must admit I don't actually own OM) has additional information in it and isn't formatted as a simple text file.

Who knows what that additional information is or how it works with the actual software? For instance, there is a standard calibration file in all Audyssey equipped AVR's and Pre-Pros that allow the Audyssey mic to be accurate within +/- 2.5db but the mic itself isn't within that 2.5db without the calibration file in the AVR/Pre-Pro. So... What if the software, Omnimic in this case, is somehow biased towards the actual response of several tested mics and the mics aren't truly individually calibrated, rather batch calibrated like the Audyssey Mics??

Also, is the Omnimic Mic "calibrated" at 0, 45, or 90 degrees and if that can conclusively be answered, if using that cal file with REW will you also be using the mic "only" in that position?? 0/45/90??

There are too many unknowns and variables right now, so I'd say it would possibly be better to use the Omnimic Mic without any cal file unless the above questions can be answered, if you must use it at all.

I still recommend the UMIK-1 by Mini-DSP for ease of use or the Dayton UMM-6 for accuracy, but to get started learning REW and for "close enough" measurements, honestly just about any Mic will work as most all of them use the same $2.00 Panasonic Condensor module anyway. wink.gif

--J

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post #295 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

Hi Max, all's well in my neck of the woods. Thanks. smile.gif

As regards the graph I think you are right, it did look pretty smooth for me as well even after setting 1/24 smoothing. Each of the graphs were averaged in REW after taking 6 independent in-room measurements in a style we place the Audyssey mic during setup. Could it be that an averaged graph looks quite smooth even at 1/24 smoothing while a single point measurement will show up like in your example?

Yes, the average is much more smooth than individual measurements.

While it's true that spatial averaging of several Mic positions as Feri has done (and is always the best way to do it as movement of literally an inch or two can make a huge difference) will smooth things out quite a bit, I must admit that when I first saw that graph, I literally said out loud, "There's no way that's 1/24th smoothing." smile.gif

Feri, can you try again? Make some new measurements and then click "average" measurements "Before" smoothing.

I am almost positive what happened was that you changed the "average" measurements AFTER smoothing had already taken place (to 1/3rd in your case) and that won't change the average.

What I'm saying is, any time you make an "average" of several measurements, the average is what it is and cannot be made to have "more" resolution. You must ALWAYS have the individual measurements totally unsmoothed BEFORE averaging, then make an average, which will also then be unsmoothed. At that point, and only then can you manipulate the average measurement to any smoothing you want.

Does that make sense??

--J

EDIT: Max obviously beat me to this and stated it much more eloquently I might add, but I do agree with the poster that stated this needs to be added to the eventual Usage Guide/Current FAQ. I will be adding this to post 2. Could someone who previously DID NOT understand this and now DOES understand this thanks to Max's or my post take a few minutes and re-write this as a Q & A that everyone will understand as I believe Max's post is a bit long for that format and I don't believe I stated the answer quite clearly enough, but did my best. wink.gif Thanks so much!!

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post #296 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by audioguy View Post

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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Note that nowhere in the guide did I use the words "Plug and Play". Please remain positive until we have USB microphones to test.

It was not you who used plug-n-play. It was someone else. And I will stay "positive" or at least patient!

Hi Audioguy,

The "someone else..." was/is me. My name is Jason and my friends call me J. Feel free to refer to me directly by either of those names in the future.

I've thought seriously about responding to several of your posts, as I understand your frustration, but as soon as I decide to respond to one negative post, up pops another!

I stand by the original intent of my statement which was that you can now purchase the specific MiniDSP UMIK-1 Mic to use with REW and it is now Plug-N-Play. It is. There is no argument about that.

However, of course the setup and use of the software is no more or less PNP than before other than in regards to installing this new mic.

The advantages of the new mic (and hopefully soon to be the UMM-6, too) are that you do not have to have an SPL meter or calibrate the SPL, you do not have to load the calibration file manually, and you don't have to calibrate the mic in any way.

You literally plug the UMIK-1 Mic in and select it in REW. Plug-N-Play.

Since you feel you were mislead and I was being dishonest, I will not try to alter those feelings in any way. Who am I to tell you that you feel wrong??

So, with that being said, I will take full responsibility for not explaining before in as much detail as I just did above exactly what I meant by stating the new Mic was PNP.

Taking responsibility in my opinion is not just saying so or saying, "Sorry about that" although I do sincerely apologize for your frustration.

I am hereby offering to purchase your Mic at full purchase price including original S&H and the S&H to me to get you out of this mess and while I cannot put a value on your time and "refund" that, I do humbly and sincerely apologize that you feel I misled you and possibly others.

With that being said, I have wanted to say this to you for several days but kept putting it off thinking one day soon it would all click, come together, and start working for you and that in the end you'd be very satisfied with the power of REW.

However, I now feel, after reading your latest posts that even if you do end up getting this to work, either on your own or with direct help from me or another forum member, you probably won't "stay" satisfied long, and here's why.

It's not that I think you are a contrarian or are here trolling and/or just trying to cause trouble; in fact I do NOT think that, for the record.

I feel that if you are this frustrated, upset, and feel so strongly about this process being PNP that even when you do get it hooked up and working (which I have no doubt can happen rather quickly), when it comes time to making the effort to actually learn and interpret exactly what all these charts and graphs are telling you in REW so you can actually "DO" something about it, which is the ultimate goal of this thread, and realize it IS going to require moving speakers, listening position, lots of measurements, lots of study, and lots of passive EQ (room treatments, either purchased or DIY) you will become totally frustrated, overwhelmed, and give up at some point anyway.

I'm just trying to save you some time. It is true that I am making assumptions here, but I cannot imagine you (or anyone else) bought a $100 Mic after spending $300?? on OmniMic) just to generate and look at graphs, see the problems in your room, yet NOT do anything at all about them.

Fixing the problems is actually easier than learning to understand what they are and "how" to fix the problems, which again, is the ultimate goal of this thread.

We're not even past step one though, which is setting it up, and you already feel taken advantage of.

So...An easy way out, with no hard feelings is to please accept my most sincerest of apologies, as I honestly never intended to mislead you or anyone else; only to help and share the knowledge I've gained through these same very forums I frequent often and have done so over the last few years now, and also please PM me your PayPal account's email address and I'll happily send you the money you've spent on the Mic, you can mail it to me, and I'll figure out what to do with it from there.

Thanks a bunch for the time and effort you have put into this and if you do decide to stick with it, please understand it will only get more intense and more difficult from here, not easier.

After everyone has gotten their mic's I plan to teach everyone exactly what to measure, what to look for, what not to do, and how to start fixing the problems and for those folks with more time than money I hope to spend a good amount of time explaining how it's totally unnecessary to ever spend the first dollar on "Room Treatments" from companies that sell them, as long as you can follow directions and have the most basic of tools and DIY skills.

You are more than welcome to continue to follow along and participate, but I would greatly appreciate it if we could end the topic of you feeling slighted about my use of the term PNP and move forward amicably. I believe I've offered a way to do that.

Thanks for your time and consideration,

--Jason

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post #297 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Getting Started with REW:  A Step-by-Step Guide


The purpose of this document is to provide a step-by-step guide for novice users of Room Equalization Wizard, freeware audio measurement software authored by John Mulkahy.  This guide focuses on the recent enhancements to REW that support the use of USB microphones and HDMI connectivity to the AVR.  You are encouraged to visit the REW forum, and to thoroughly read the REW Cabling Basics and the REW Online Help documents.  Suggestions to improve this document are welcome.  Please direct your comments and corrections by sending a PM to AVS Forum user AustinJerry.  Heartfelt thanks to AVS Forum user KBarnes701 for his assistance in creating this guide.



REW 101 v1-4.pdf 3625k .pdf file



Revision History:


Jan 13, 2013 - Initial release

Jerry, WOW!

I do not know how to express in words on this forum how impressed I am with this document.

You truly put a ton of time and effort into this.

I simply do not have the time or patience to do this but knew all along this is exactly what was needed and was even stressing over it once I started to read how many folks were having difficulty with the first step.

I am in awe. biggrin.gif

Thank you so very much.

With your permission, I'd like to put this in one of the first few posts on this thread.

I will read all 52 pages and proof it very soon. Hopefully, as we figure out how to make this thread flow more smoothly and as more information regarding the actual use of REW and what to "do" about the things we find in the graphs is disseminated you can find the same drive, patience, and time once again to create such a beautiful and helpful document for that, which is the main reason I started this thread; the ultimate goal being understanding of the graphs to actually fixing the problems.

I am very excited about the journey along the way. I am humbly asking your help in guiding me though as I don't want to get too far ahead of anyone but I also don't want to let the thread go stale.

I've just been sitting back and reading over the last few days as no question has been asked of me specifically, but I have to admit I cannot wait to get into the crux of it all and start explaining what to do, why, and what to do about what you find/see. That's where I feel I can contribute the most and again, cannot thank you enough for all your input and help as that is what is necessary to get everyone on the same page and finally to that point.

Thanks again, and keep in touch,

--J

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post #298 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 09:55 PM
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With your permission, I'd like to put this in one of the first few posts on this thread.

--J

Yes, of course. Having a link to the post where the document is would be very useful. I intend to update the document as we go along, especially when I receive the USB mic. There are a couple of holes in the document as it is now, e.g. how to create a sound card calibration file. I'm sure it will get better over time.
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post #299 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 10:12 PM
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Hi Audioguy,

I stand by the original intent of my statement which was that you can now purchase the specific MiniDSP UMIK-1 Mic to use with REW and it is now Plug-N-Play. It is. There is no argument about that.

However, of course the setup and use of the software is no more or less PNP than before other than in regards to installing this new mic.

The advantages of the new mic (and hopefully soon to be the UMM-6, too) are that you do not have to have an SPL meter or calibrate the SPL, you do not have to load the calibration file manually, and you don't have to calibrate the mic in any way.

You literally plug the UMIK-1 Mic in and select it in REW. Plug-N-Play.

I have the UMIK-1 mic and that has not been my experience. I have been unable to get REW to have the mic be active and not "idle". One recommendation was that I reload Windows. I won't be doing that. If that is actually the solution to allow the mic (and my HDMI outputs) be active and not idle, I will just give up. I have downloaded the ASIO module numerous times and have done the same with REW to no avial. In the Windows control panel, it says the mic is the default input. I'm stuck. If that is plug-n-play, then your definition and mine are not close.

That said, I apologize for "blaming you" if that is what I have done. I am a big boy and am able to make my own decisions. No one forced me to try to make this work. I did not and do not need this software. I already have the ability to measure each speaker independently and get virtually any measurement I want to with OmniMic. I wanted (and still want) to get REW to work becasue it does have some functionality that OM does not have and I am always interested in learning more.
Quote:
Since you feel you were mislead and I was being dishonest, I will not try to alter those feelings in any way. Who am I to tell you that you feel wrong??

I have never called you dishonest. Nor do I think you were. What I have said (and I stand by it) is that your "over exuberance" for the ease of use of REW with the USB mic and ASIO is what prompted me to give REW another try. As I have said, I used REW for several years but struggled with it each time I used it. I got the impression from reading your posts, that somehow the ease of use had increased, and that has not been my experience either,
Quote:
I am hereby offering to purchase your Mic at full purchase price including original S&H and the S&H to me to get you out of this mess and while I cannot put a value on your time and "refund" that, I do humbly and sincerely apologize that you feel I misled you and possibly others
.

I'm not looking for you or anyone else to buy my mic. If I get to the point where I have given up and am simply unable to get any further than I am now, I will sell it then on Audiogon or on AVS.
Quote:
I feel that if you are this frustrated, upset, and feel so strongly about this process being PNP that even when you do get it hooked up and working (which I have no doubt can happen rather quickly), when it comes time to making the effort to actually learn and interpret exactly what all these charts and graphs are telling you in REW so you can actually "DO" something about it, which is the ultimate goal of this thread, and realize it IS going to require moving speakers, listening position, lots of measurements, lots of study, and lots of passive EQ (room treatments, either purchased or DIY) you will become totally frustrated, overwhelmed, and give up at some point anyway.

You could not be more incorrect. I have been involved directly and indirectly in the audio business for a long time. I spent many, many, many hours moving speakers in my room (using REW, XTZ, OmniMic, and the TacT audio preamp) and in clients rooms to optimize the sound. My issue in my room has zero to do with the position of my speakers. Please re-read that I used REW for several years and OmniMic for several more. My speakers are exactly where they belong.

I will say this again. I have some interest in getting the "more simplified" REW to work. But since I don't "need it", I am only willing to put so much time into it. Nor will you hear me restate that any portion of REW was quoted as plug-n-play. It is not. I do think, however, it was fair to post my issues since others may be led to try REW thinking as I did that it was easier to use.

I am still looking for a way to get the system to work. My stuck place at the moment is to figure out a consistent way to have REW to have both my mic and my HDMI output be active and not idle.

Let's move forward.

New Theater

Don't count the years. Make the years count. Lou Holtz
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post #300 of 12881 Old 01-13-2013, 10:53 PM
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I have been involved for many years in the support of applications running on Windows computers.  There have been countless times where applications that run flawlessly on one computer simply fail to run reliably on another computer.  It is always frustrating trying to trouble-shoot these issues because every computer is different by virtue of its history of different software installations.  It is only because I have a strong desire to make this new REW capability succeed was I willing to completely re-install Windows.  Now that everything works smoothly on the new image, I conclude that something in the previous installation of Windows was conflicting with the ASIO4ALL software.  I would not expect everyone who has an issue to go to the trouble to re-install Windows on their computer.  However, I do expect anyone who is having issues to recognize that the Windows environment is many times somewhat unpredictable.

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