Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 153 - AVS Forum
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post #4561 of 11690 Old 09-10-2013, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LOL. Real time measuring is really cool though sometimes. It's the one thing I miss with REW.

Doesn't the Real Time Analyzer (RTA) function in REW allow for real time measurements - I haven't used this feature, but I do remember seeing a comment that while there is some lag, it does allow for measuring subs while you reposition them

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post #4562 of 11690 Old 09-10-2013, 06:39 PM
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Can someone point me to instructions for creating a gentle house curve for my REW filter creation?
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post #4563 of 11690 Old 09-10-2013, 06:55 PM
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The default is under Target Settings; LF Rise Start and LF Rise End.

You might want to start at 60Hz instead of 100Hz, and you might want a steeper slope.

Or, you might not. Experiment and see what sounds good to you - that's why it's a "house curve," it's your house.


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post #4564 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 03:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

ROFL. I hadn’t considered that, Jerry, but I think you are right. You know, if I got rid of the side tables to the side of each seat, I could fit two more Submersives in.... hmmmm.... and if I went for HPs instead of F2s, then the HPs could serve as the tables themselves. Jerry, you might be on to something... smile.gif

Anyone think 4 SubMs in a room of about 1000 cu ft is too much?  Or is the consensus that you can never have too much woofage?  LOL.
On woofge:
My room is 900 ft3 and I thought until about March that 2 klipsch sub 10's yeah, O.K.
Then I got the REW and Umm mike and saw that,\. heh What?
So tried recommended movementsand placements but 33-35 and below was mostly missing
Several months later . . . Sub 10's OUT!
BF 24" THTLP - IN!
Initial testing/ listening ;
No such thing as too much woofage, especially with a WAF of ZERO
.

 

This is what  I've been telling you guys all along LOL.... Way to go...



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post #4565 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

LOL. Real time measuring is really cool though sometimes. It's the one thing I miss with REW.

Doesn't the Real Time Analyzer (RTA) function in REW allow for real time measurements - I haven't used this feature, but I do remember seeing a comment that while there is some lag, it does allow for measuring subs while you reposition them

 

It may do - I haven't used it. I played with it a little but haven't used it for real. To me, it didn't seem to do what OM does in the same way, but that could certainly be my lack of understanding more than anything else.  With the sub distance tweak, it is terrific with OM to adjust the distance settings in the AVR and see the impact in real time as you increase or decrease the distances. Makes the job much quicker.



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post #4566 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 03:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brucemck2 View Post

Can someone point me to instructions for creating a gentle house curve for my REW filter creation?

 

Download the pdf the documents attached.

 

House Curve 1

 

House Curve 2

 

House Curve 3



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post #4567 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 07:02 AM
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After measuring and tweaking your systems for a flat response has anyone actually preferred the unaltered sound before messing with the signal? Reason I ask is because I'm able to get a fairly flat response in room and doesn't sound bad but when I go back to no equalization it sounds better to my ears. I'm using an Emotiva UMC 1 to equalize so maybe the issue is that graphic/parametric equalizers alter the frequencies differently than Audyssey and don't sound as good. Has anyone else noticed this? I've never had a receiver that had Audyssey but I'd be willing to try one out if it's a big difference. I do like the EQ'd subwoofer better by the way, just not my mains.
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Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post

After measuring and tweaking your systems for a flat response has anyone actually preferred the unaltered sound before messing with the signal? Reason I ask is because I'm able to get a fairly flat response in room and doesn't sound bad but when I go back to no equalization it sounds better to my ears. I'm using an Emotiva UMC 1 to equalize so maybe the issue is that graphic/parametric equalizers alter the frequencies differently than Audyssey and don't sound as good. Has anyone else noticed this? I've never had a receiver that had Audyssey but I'd be willing to try one out if it's a big difference. I do like the EQ'd subwoofer better by the way, just not my mains.

 

 

Not here.  I don't consider room equalization as "messing with the signal".  However, this is not the thread to discuss equalization vs. no equalization, or the merits of one type of equalization vs. another, IMO.  Better to ask this in the Emotiva thread.

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post #4569 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 07:36 AM
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I do like the EQ'd subwoofer better by the way, just not my mains.

Which is why there are some who believe that you shouldn't eq > 200Hz. But, as Jerry said, that's a philosophical discussion for other threads.

But there's no harm in trying it, and no reason to feel badly if you prefer it.


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post #4570 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post

After measuring and tweaking your systems for a flat response has anyone actually preferred the unaltered sound before messing with the signal? Reason I ask is because I'm able to get a fairly flat response in room and doesn't sound bad but when I go back to no equalization it sounds better to my ears. I'm using an Emotiva UMC 1 to equalize so maybe the issue is that graphic/parametric equalizers alter the frequencies differently than Audyssey and don't sound as good. Has anyone else noticed this? I've never had a receiver that had Audyssey but I'd be willing to try one out if it's a big difference. I do like the EQ'd subwoofer better by the way, just not my mains.

Yes.

Adding an EQ to my system made it sound worse. I am one of those that feels like adding active devices in the signal path degrades it. But I will also say that sometimes the benefits outweigh the negatives in such a case. It depends how bad and what kind of problem you have to begin with.

For instance, if your FR is already +/- 5db (depending on smoothness and where the +/'s and -'s are) at 1/24th oct smoothing, I wouldnt EQ to get it to +/- 3db. But if your at +/- 10db and you have already exhausted all you room treatment ideas, then I might use EQ.


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post #4571 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 09:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aarons915 View Post

After measuring and tweaking your systems for a flat response has anyone actually preferred the unaltered sound before messing with the signal? Reason I ask is because I'm able to get a fairly flat response in room and doesn't sound bad but when I go back to no equalization it sounds better to my ears. I'm using an Emotiva UMC 1 to equalize so maybe the issue is that graphic/parametric equalizers alter the frequencies differently than Audyssey and don't sound as good. Has anyone else noticed this? I've never had a receiver that had Audyssey but I'd be willing to try one out if it's a big difference. I do like the EQ'd subwoofer better by the way, just not my mains.

 

It's possible that some may prefer the sound to be distorted by room modes, bad reflections etc, possibly simply because it is the sound they are accustomed to.  Most of us in this thread are looking for first of all a flat response which we can then, if we choose, tweak to our preference or house curve. If you want to discuss Audyssey's automated room EQ, then please drop by the Official Audyssey Thread where I am sure you will be given a warm welcome.



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post #4572 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 11:42 AM
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After measuring and tweaking your systems for a flat response has anyone actually preferred the unaltered sound before messing with the signal?

There's a whole (relatively recent) thread on just this question, or close to
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1483347/does-auto-room-correction-do-more-good-or-harm
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post #4573 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 01:08 PM
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There's a whole (relatively recent) thread on just this question, or close to
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1483347/does-auto-room-correction-do-more-good-or-harm

Subscribed to it. I'd read it in the beginning and lost interest after a few pages when it first started. Sounds like my planned experiment has a built-in audience, even coming from a quasi-amateur like me. Just be patient - work and the newborn are taking up a fair amount of my time LOL...

Stuart

 

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Oppo 93 and 103

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post #4574 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 01:16 PM
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Sorry if this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find it after a few days of searching. I've worked out a way to individually select each of the 8 channels individually on a Mac, when outputting over HDMI. This is similar to the workaround in the sticky as it uses Soundflower (download here). I used the latest version, which actually has support for 64 channel input and output.

This is pretty straightforward once you have Soundflower installed and running. You need to go to System Preferences ->Sound -> Output, and set this to Soundflower (64 ch).



Go to the MIDI controller via Applications -> Utilities ->Audio MIDI Setup, and select Soundflower (64 ch) as the output. In the image I’ve set the volume for channels 7 through 64 to zero, but it’s not necessary.



Next, open REW, and go to preferences. Set your output device as Default Device.



Now go to Applications -> Soundflower ->Soundflowerbed. This should load the application. It looks like an asterisk in your menu bar. When you click on that, you get a drop down. Mouse down and select HDMI under the Soundflower 64(ch) section. Now, click the asterisk again, and mouse down to the SoundFlower (64ch) and you get another set of options under routing. This is where the magic happens. Mouse over and set channels 2 through 64 to None. This deactivates each of those outputs. We only need one active at a time.



To begin with, I just ran a test tone from the REW generator to experiment. Go back to the Soundflowerbed icon and hover over Soundflower(64ch), mouse over to Channel 1, and you can select which output channel you want to route the sound to. For example, HDMI (1) corresponds to my L channel, HDMI (2) corresponds to my Center, and so on. I tried it with all 6 speakers in my living room setup.



The key here is to have only 1 channel activated at a time. The OS wants to send the sound to all 6 channels (or 8) at once, but Soundflower will let you turn all of them off (or on) individually.

Hope this is useful! This worked for me on a MacBook Pro running OS X 10.7.5. I'll be interested to know if it works for others.

input Configuration Update

I've noticed an intermittent issue where my UMM-6 is not recognized by REW. My Mac will immediately recognize it, and typically swaps the input in the system preferences to the UMM-6, but for some reason, REW does not see it despite all the other settings being correct. For now, the work-around has been to select the "Built-in Input" in REW. I'm not familiar with the other mics/sound cards, but this is how it's setup on my Mac.

Go to System Preferences -> Sound and make sure you click on the Input tab



Make sure your mic is selected (e.g. highlighted). You can also go to the MIDI controller via Applications -> Utilities ->Audio MIDI Setup and double check that your particular input device is active. Look for the microphone beside it.



Now open REW and go to the preferences. Select the Soundcard tab and under "Input Device and Input" you can select "Built-in input"



What's interesting about this is sometimes REW will recognize my mic when "Default Device" is selected in REW, and sometimes it won't. I haven't figured out why this is yet, but you have to make sure REW is not defaulting to your laptop/computer's built-in mic.
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post #4575 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 08:04 PM
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This relies on Soundflower (download here).

...

The key here is to have only 1 channel activated at a time. The OS wants to send the sound to all 6 channels (or 8) at once , but Soundflower will let you turn all of them off (or on) individually.

If this is of interest to anyone, I'll try to provide a more detailed explanation if it's necessary.

Soonish, I'll be getting a mic and undertaking this REW adventure. But I'm a Mac guy so this is incredibly helpful. I'm hoping to be able to go through the guide and annotate for other Mac users.

For the above, you're describing it for HDMI. Do you know if the above works with the mini Toslink thing?

Also, which mic are you using?

Finally, Audio MIDI setup couldn't do the above?
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post #4576 of 11690 Old 09-11-2013, 08:47 PM
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Soonish, I'll be getting a mic and undertaking this REW adventure. But I'm a Mac guy so this is incredibly helpful. I'm hoping to be able to go through the guide and annotate for other Mac users.

For the above, you're describing it for HDMI. Do you know if the above works with the mini Toslink thing?

Also, which mic are you using?

Finally, Audio MIDI setup couldn't do the above?

I'm using the calibrated UMM-6 that's recommended on the first page. I have all of four days experience with REW smile.gif, but I've found already that those of us with Macs have it a little more difficult than the Windows crowd.

I'm not sure which Toslink think you are referring to. I've got a MacBook Pro, so my only option is a MiniDisplay port as an output. So I just went with a MiniDisplay to HDMI adapter.

And no, the Audio MIDI setup will not allow you to select an individual channel for output. It passes the sound directly to the receiver to be decoded. Unfortunately, REW doesn't have built in capabilities to select channels either. That's where Soundflower comes in.

EDIT: BTW, I updated my previous post with pictures smile.gif

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post #4577 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 04:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

Sorry if this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find it after a few days of searching. I've worked out a way to individually select each of the 8 channels individually on a Mac, when outputting over HDMI. This is similar to the workaround required for some mics as it uses Soundflower (download here). I used the latest version, which actually has support for 64 channel input and output.

This is pretty straightforward once you have Soundflower installed and running. You need to go to System Preferences ->Sound -> Output, and set this to Soundflower (64 ch).



The key here is to have only 1 channel activated at a time. The OS wants to send the sound to all 6 channels (or 8) at once, but Soundflower will let you turn all of them off (or on) individually.

Hope this is useful! This worked for me on a MacBook Pro running OS X 10.7.5. I'll be interested to know if it works for others.

 

You might care to liaise with Jerry and see if he would like to include this info as an addendum to his Guide. A few people have asked for Mac info in the past. Great work BTW.



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post #4578 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 05:25 AM
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You might care to liaise with Jerry and see if he would like to include this info as an addendum to his Guide. A few people have asked for Mac info in the past. Great work BTW.

I agree, very nice work to provide guidance for Mac users. The addition of the screen shots will be very helpful.

Rather than add the Mac guidelines to the original Guide, I prefer to insert a link to J_P_A's post. This will allow him to edit the post, rather than place the burden on me to keep a section updated that I know little about. Would that be acceptable?

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post #4579 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 05:33 AM
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You might care to liaise with Jerry and see if he would like to include this info as an addendum to his Guide. A few people have asked for Mac info in the past. Great work BTW.

I agree, very nice work to provide guidance for Mac users. The addition of the screen shots will be very helpful.

Rather than add the Mac guidelines to the original Guide, I prefer to insert a link to J_P_A's post. This will allow him to edit the post, rather than place the burden on me to keep a section updated that I know little about. Would that be acceptable?

 

Good idea. If I had had this info some time back, I could have used my Macbook for REW. But I had already bought a Windows laptop for Audyssey Pro and OmniMic, so I guess it makes sense to stick with Windows, where most of the support is. HST, once REW is up and running and any initial issues overcome, there isn't really much need for support on that side (the non-measurement side I mean).



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post #4580 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 06:12 AM
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Glad you guys think this will be useful. I'll try to keep the post updated with any new developments I run across.

I'm really looking forward to using REW, and I'm glad I'll be able to use my MAC rather than dragging my dinosaur of a PC out smile.gif

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post #4581 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 06:19 AM
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Glad you guys think this will be useful. I'll try to keep the post updated with any new developments I run across.

I'm really looking forward to using REW, and I'm glad I'll be able to use my MAC rather than dragging my dinosaur of a PC out smile.gif

 

Very useful. I am a long-time Mac user but I had to go over to the dark side and buy a Windows laptop so I could run Audyssey Pro and OmniMic. I just carried on using it for REW when I decided to make that my favoured measurement program. The Windows laptop isn't used for anything else other than those 3 programs so it gives me no trouble. ;)



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post #4582 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 08:30 AM
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The REW Guide has been updated to Version 3.0.  Changes in this version are:

 

 

3.0

Sept 12, 2013

-          Added link (p. 3) to guide on how to use REW with the Apple MacBook Pro, authored by forum participant J_P_A.

 

Special thanks to J_P_A for taking time to create this guide addendum, which should be a welcome addition for anyone using an Apple laptop.


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post #4583 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 08:48 AM
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I'm famous! Well, in a very obscure sort of way, but I'll take it biggrin.gif

Dude, are you made of leprechauns? Cause that was awesome!


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post #4584 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 08:58 AM
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Another cable question for the experts:

 

Several months ago, I ordered the following cable from BlueJeans:  “HDMI Cable, Tartan 24 AWG, 25 foot, Black”.  I use this cable to connect my laptop to the front HDMI port on my AVR when conducting REW measurements.  The cable has worked fine for this purpose until recently.  I was moving the laptop around the room and the weight of the cable stressed the HDMI connector, and the cable separated from the connector and no longer works.  This cable is thick and heavy, about as big around as my little finger.

 

I need to order a replacement cable, but want a thin, flexible cable (similar to the mini-XLR cables included in the Pro Kit).  Can anyone recommend such a cable?  Thanks!

 

 

 


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post #4585 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:07 AM
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You could try the ultra-thin redmere from Monoprice found here

 

Appears to be a little slimmer than you describe but maybe not quite as thin as you're looking for?!  25-30ft is typically a heavier gauge...you might also try an extender with shorter cables but that's probably a much more expensive alternative.

 

On a side, can we all agree that HDMI is probably the most ill-conceived connector known to mankind?! :rolleyes:

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post #4586 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:09 AM
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Agreed on the HDMI connector.  Seems like my REW kit is cable-challenged.  The USP cable to the mic is too short, and a longer cable is limited to 16 feet.  It is sometimes difficult to place the measurement mic without the laptop and me getting in the way.  I'm probably a big source of reflections!


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post #4587 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:14 AM
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Honestly, that's another reason why I gave up on getting HDMI to work properly in my setup.  I just use RCA cables (stereo to 8mm) which at this length are stiffer than standard cables but a much more secure connection to my Prepro.  Since your laptop only does 2-channel HDMI you might want to consider the same?!  As for the USB, I have an extender that I use without issue.

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post #4588 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J_P_A View Post

I'm famous! Well, in a very obscure sort of way, but I'll take it biggrin.gif

 

Your 15 minutes has officially started.... :)



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post #4589 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:35 AM
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The REW Guide has been updated to Version 3.0.  Changes in this version are:

 

 

3.0

Sept 12, 2013

-          Added link (p. 3) to guide on how to use REW with the Apple MacBook Pro, authored by forum participant J_P_A.

 

Special thanks to J_P_A for taking time to create this guide addendum, which should be a welcome addition for anyone using an Apple laptop.

 

Thanks Jerry! 



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post #4590 of 11690 Old 09-12-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 

Another cable question for the experts:

 

 

Several months ago, I ordered the following cable from BlueJeans:  “HDMI Cable, Tartan 24 AWG, 25 foot, Black”.  I use this cable to connect my laptop to the front HDMI port on my AVR when conducting REW measurements.  The cable has worked fine for this purpose until recently.  I was moving the laptop around the room and the weight of the cable stressed the HDMI connector, and the cable separated from the connector and no longer works.  This cable is thick and heavy, about as big around as my little finger.

 

I need to order a replacement cable, but want a thin, flexible cable (similar to the mini-XLR cables included in the Pro Kit).  Can anyone recommend such a cable?  Thanks!

 

 

 

 

 

I use a 25 foot cable too, but it's nothing special. It was one of the cheapest I could find on Amazon UK - it isn't very thick at all but it works perfectly. I also use a port saver at each end to save strain on the ports, especially at the laptop end where it can cause problems as you have discovered.  My cable isn't even as the Pro Kit cables you mention.

 

I’d suggest any of the standard Monoprice cables would be fine.



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