Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 205 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 119Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #6121 of 11710 Old 11-01-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

OK, here's my initial results from the first day of pushing 4 subs around my living room. smile.gif

4880 cubic feet, quad XS15s, Audyssey on, Dyn EQ on, subs + FL/R.

This is unsmoothed FR:


FR with 1/6th octave smoothing:


Waterfall (my noise floor is around 52db):


Spectrogram:


And here is the FR from my wife's recliner in blue, mine in green...initially, I thought it looked better than my response, but after closer inspection I think mine more resembles a proper house curve smile.gif :



What do you guys think? Lookin' good or should I still consider the Mini DSP? Room treatments?

Surely the more knowledgeable will chime in but a good start I would say. I do like your house curve observation. I would guess the right answer is to try room treatments first before mini dsp. You will have to decide how far you are willing to go there. Be careful, your allowance can grow day by day smile.gif

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #6122 of 11710 Old 11-01-2013, 09:24 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yea I found that nasa document in my research. Jevansoh was saying AFB was 27000 last night so I had assumed that was right. If the RHT 80 is in fact 27000 and AFB 16000 then I should keep a little.

Actually I have an idea. Let's see what you think. Let's say I am going to build two big vertical soffit traps in my front LR corners (note that the right corner will have a good 3.5 ft gap due to a dang in wall air conditioner). Those 15x15 out of entirely pink fluffy. Here is the absorption calc on 15". I put 15" of the 27000 value as well just so we can see why we would want pink fluffy!


I am thinking I could get away with about 9 inch soffits all around elsewhere. Floor to wall coming back from front LR corners, tv wall from front LR corners about 5ft in both sides until I hit the tv stand. And front tv wall to ceiling junction, and both LR side wall to ceiling junction.

Here is 9 inches...

I dont actually know the flow resistivity values for the Roxul. Let me be clear. These are guesses based on the density values.

I have found pink fluffy to be the best material for broadband absorption WHEN you have 9" or so inches or more of real estate to work with. You own modeling data confirm this. At 4" OC703 is better, at 2" OC705 is better. So unless you are space limited, I dont see the need or the value in going high density fiber period. Not to mention that pink fluffy is much more available and a fraction of the cost.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jim19611961 is offline  
post #6123 of 11710 Old 11-01-2013, 09:34 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

I dont actually know the flow resistivity values for the Roxul. Let me be clear. These are guesses based on the density values.

I have found pink fluffy to be the best material for broadband absorption WHEN you have 9" or so inches or more of real estate to work with. At 4" OC703 is better, at 2" OC705 is better.

Yea I was looking at 6 inches this evening as an broadband absorber but that seems rather intrusive in my small room. Soffits in the corners are one thing. 4 inches is what I will make my broadband panels

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6124 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:10 AM
Senior Member
 
Audionut11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 52
Random incidence will increase the absorption coefficient in the lower frequencies.
Audionut11 is offline  
post #6125 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
What is random incidence?

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6126 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:20 AM
Senior Member
 
Audionut11's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 354
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 77 Post(s)
Liked: 52
AFAIK, it takes into consideration that the sound waves don't hit the absorber at only 1 angle, and calculates the absorption coefficient as such.
Audionut11 is offline  
post #6127 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:25 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani View Post

Jason had earlier linked to an old GearSlutz thread where gas flow resistivity values were listed (and argued about) for many popular acoustic materials, but is there a way to reliably convert those absorption coefficients and/or density figures from the Bob Golds chart to gas flow resistivity numbers?.

No, there's no way of reliably converting those numbers. What we're interested in is flow resistivity and thickness.

Rule of thumb is to use the lowest flow resisitivity one can find and make the absorber as thick as possible.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #6128 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:37 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Perhaps you could help me Jim. I had my insulation delivered today and I think it may be the wrong stuff. I talked with the sales guy so an exchange is available. I ordered Roxul AFB and what the label says is Roxul RHT 80.

Why buy fiberglass with unknown properties? You need to know the flow resistivity. Roxul doesn't provide it, so don't buy Roxul.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #6129 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 02:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,960
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

OK, here's my initial results from the first day of pushing 4 subs around my living room.

FR with 1/6th octave smoothing:


Waterfall (my noise floor is around 52db):





What do you guys think? Lookin' good or should I still consider the Mini DSP? Room treatments?

 

Can you repost the waterfall showing up to 300Hz and with the time range to 450ms or 600ms if it is still showing considerable ringing at 450ms?  The frequency response isn't too bad but it is the least useful of the measurements for the bass region - your waterfall is showing considerable problems that need attention. I imagine your bass will be flabby and boomy.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #6130 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 03:26 AM
Member
 
glugus2000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 38
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Hello everyone. First post to this thread and just want to send a big thanks to all for the very educational info. It has taken me about 3 months from the time I found this thread to catch up and I wanted to read all I can before posting.
I've just started measuring and plan to do more, maybe later today and might even post some graphs, room layouts and such. But who knows. My room is open and not very flexible and I'm pretty sure treatments are out due to WAF. I can move the mains and subs a bit, but guess I better measure more first. My big problem is dialog clarity. The wife and I both have trouble understanding voices at times. Thank goodness we can back up the TiVo and listen again.
I rally just wanted to share something I learned while setting up the UMM6 and HDMI on Windows that I haven't seen anyone else post about.
Way back in the early pages of this thread a few people mentioned that they were unable to get both the mic and hdmi connection active at the time in the ASIO control pane.
I had tried all the iterations of booting windows with and without the avr connected, with and without the mic connected, nothing helped.
I finally found that if I disable all the audio inputs except the mic, it worked perfect.
I don't know if those that posted about those problem found a solution, went back to the analog sound card, or just gave up, but thought I'd share what worked for me and thought it might even be a tip for the REW guide.
Thanks again for sharing all the knowledge. I've learned much and enjoyed following this thread.
glugus2000 is offline  
post #6131 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 04:11 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,960
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by glugus2000 View Post

Hello everyone. First post to this thread and just want to send a big thanks to all for the very educational info. It has taken me about 3 months from the time I found this thread to catch up and I wanted to read all I can before posting.
I've just started measuring and plan to do more, maybe later today and might even post some graphs, room layouts and such. But who knows. My room is open and not very flexible and I'm pretty sure treatments are out due to WAF. I can move the mains and subs a bit, but guess I better measure more first. My big problem is dialog clarity. The wife and I both have trouble understanding voices at times. Thank goodness we can back up the TiVo and listen again.

 

Welcome to the thread, or more accurately, welcome for your first post here.

 

Please do post your measurement graphs so we can see how your room is performing for you and maybe make some suggestions. Lack of dialogue clarity can have various causes but, assuming you have a decent centre speaker and it is properly positioned, angled towards the MLP, it is often caused by unwanted reflections. Sometimes these are from a big, reflective coffee table positioned between the centre speaker and the MLP. Sometimes the room is just too reflective and the reflections are causing difficulties in hearing dialogue clearly. IME, almost every modern movie that I own has very good dialogue clarity. I almost never, for example, stumble on a word or phrase - this is how I’d expect it to be because the guys mixing these movies are very professional and, of course, dialogue is essential to almost every movie. If dialogue clarity is poor, it can ruin the enjoyment of the movie.

 

So the question is, what can we do about it?  If we know that it isn’t a problem in the source, and if you have a decent centre speaker, properly positioned, then the problem will almost certainly lie with the room. If you could post some snapshots of the room, showing the speaker placements and the listening seats, as well as the walls, then this would be a great start to helping the diagnostic process. Also, when you do your measurements, please include some graphs of the ETCs - the Impulse response which will show what reflections you are getting in the room.

 

Often significant improvements can be made just by relocating the speakers or listening chairs by a small amount. And you could consider the WAF-friendly acoustic panels that have artwork on them so they look like pictures hanging on the wall. If your AVR has Audyssey, then using that can also bring benefits to dialogue clarity. Please tell us what AVR and speakers you have.

 

Finally, for now, have you read the really excellent beginner's guide written by thread member AustinJerry? "Jerry's Guide" as we tend to call it is the first port of call to getting a good set of measurements. The Guide details what measurements you should be taking, how to take them, how to set the parameters for the various graphs and so on - it is essential reading and I recommend downloading it and studying it before posting your results. It is linked from Jerry's signature in the thread.

 

I am sure that the collective wisdom in this thread can help you with the dialogue problems and help you get more enjoyment from your setup. Just provide the info asked for and you will receive many useful suggestions I am sure.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #6132 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 04:24 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,336
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by glugus2000 View Post

Hello everyone. First post to this thread and just want to send a big thanks to all for the very educational info. It has taken me about 3 months from the time I found this thread to catch up and I wanted to read all I can before posting.
I've just started measuring and plan to do more, maybe later today and might even post some graphs, room layouts and such. But who knows. My room is open and not very flexible and I'm pretty sure treatments are out due to WAF. I can move the mains and subs a bit, but guess I better measure more first. My big problem is dialog clarity. The wife and I both have trouble understanding voices at times. Thank goodness we can back up the TiVo and listen again.
I rally just wanted to share something I learned while setting up the UMM6 and HDMI on Windows that I haven't seen anyone else post about.
Way back in the early pages of this thread a few people mentioned that they were unable to get both the mic and hdmi connection active at the time in the ASIO control pane.
I had tried all the iterations of booting windows with and without the avr connected, with and without the mic connected, nothing helped.
I finally found that if I disable all the audio inputs except the mic, it worked perfect.
I don't know if those that posted about those problem found a solution, went back to the analog sound card, or just gave up, but thought I'd share what worked for me and thought it might even be a tip for the REW guide.
Thanks again for sharing all the knowledge. I've learned much and enjoyed following this thread.

Welcome to the thread, and thanks for sharing your solution to the ASIO problem. This will be helpful to others down the road. Keith has given you some good tips regarding the dialog issue. Next step would be to share some measurements here in the thread so we can help you dig a little deeper into the root cause.

__________________________________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #6133 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 04:32 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,336
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

OK, here's my initial results from the first day of pushing 4 subs around my living room. smile.gif


What do you guys think? Lookin' good or should I still consider the Mini DSP? Room treatments?

Welcome, Alan. I envy you--pushing subs around the room is one of my favorite activities!

Two observations regarding your measurements: the frequency response shows an interesting tapering off below 30Hz. I would have expected four subs to have more output at the bottom end. And there seems to be a significant ringing issue at around 30Hz as well. The waterfall graph looks peculiar, as if it is smoothed. When you re-post the waterfall, as Keith requested, make sure it is unsmoothed.

__________________________________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #6134 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 04:32 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,960
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 
Welcome to the thread, and thanks for sharing your solution to the ASIO problem. This will be helpful to others down the road. Keith has given you some good tips regarding the dialog issue. Next step would be to share some measurements here in the thread so we can help you dig a little deeper into the root cause.

 

Hey Jerry... you're up early! Yes, +1 to the ASIO tip - I forgot to mention that in my reply to glugus.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #6135 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 04:35 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
kbarnes701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Main Listening Positon
Posts: 17,960
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1448 Post(s)
Liked: 1715
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post

OK, here's my initial results from the first day of pushing 4 subs around my living room. smile.gif


What do you guys think? Lookin' good or should I still consider the Mini DSP? Room treatments?

Welcome, Alan. I envy you--pushing subs around the room is one of my favorite activities!

 

And much cheaper than the fitness centre :)

 

Quote:

 Two observations regarding your measurements: the frequency response shows an interesting tapering off below 30Hz. I would have expected four subs to have more output at the bottom end. And there seems to be a significant ringing issue at around 30Hz as well. The waterfall graph looks peculiar, as if it is smoothed. When you re-post the waterfall, as Keith requested, make sure it is unsmoothed.

 

Wow - 4 subs. I'd forgotten that or missed it altogether. Yes, if 4 subs are only digging down to 30Hz, there's a problem!



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
kbarnes701 is offline  
post #6136 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 08:52 AM
AVS Special Member
 
fotto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: N.E. OH
Posts: 1,868
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Alan P also has Dyn EQ on for this sweep. Ringing out to over 700ms at 30Hz.

Floyd

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
fotto is offline  
post #6137 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 09:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Why buy fiberglass with unknown properties? You need to know the flow resistivity. Roxul doesn't provide it, so don't buy Roxul.

Well Markus. After little reading and seeing that professional acoustic companies use this in broadband panels as well as Roxul advertises it as acoustical dampening material I thought it would be good



http://www.roxul.com/products/building+envelope/roxul+afb

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6138 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 09:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by fotto View Post

Alan P also has Dyn EQ on for this sweep. Ringing out to over 700ms at 30Hz.

I think a decay graph would show whats happening there more acutely.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jim19611961 is offline  
post #6139 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 09:36 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Well Markus. After little reading and seeing that professional acoustic companies use this in broadband panels as well as Roxul advertises it as acoustical dampening material I thought it would be good



http://www.roxul.com/products/building+envelope/roxul+afb

http://www.roxul.com/files/RX-NA_EN/pdf/tech%20data/AFB_Sell_Sheet_Eng_2012.pdf

This specifies Roxul AFB to have a flow resistivity of 16600 . Exactly the same as OC703. Now you can model it with greater confidence smile.gif


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jim19611961 is offline  
post #6140 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 09:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

http://www.roxul.com/files/RX-NA_EN/pdf/tech%20data/AFB_Sell_Sheet_Eng_2012.pdf

This specifies Roxul AFB to have a flow resistivity of 16600 . Exactly the same as OC703. Now you can model it with greater confidence smile.gif

Thanks Jim! Perhaps Jevansoh mis typed when he typed 27000 the other day.

Now I just gotta get it traded out. Although I will be getting pink fluffy for the soffit bass traps. I can't wIt to get some measurements!
Btw 16600 would be better according to the porous calculator as I'm sure you know smile.gif

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6141 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 11:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Thanks Jim! Perhaps Jevansoh mis typed when he typed 27000 the other day.

Now I just gotta get it traded out. Although I will be getting pink fluffy for the soffit bass traps. I can't wIt to get some measurements!
Btw 16600 would be better according to the porous calculator as I'm sure you know smile.gif

I have found a 16K Flow Resist value is about right for 4" thick absorption panels. Its all about Flow resist vs thickness. Change one and the other needs changing also for maximum effect.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jim19611961 is offline  
post #6142 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

I have found a 16K Flow Resist value is about right for 4" thick absorption panels. Its all about Flow resist vs thickness. Change one and the other needs changing also for maximum effect.

Yes Jim, I was playing with the porous calculator and found that as well that at 4 inches the 16000 is better. Honestly since using this calculator I don't understand why every single person would not check and see what frequecnies there hitting with the absorption coefficient calc. its nice to see EXACTLY what performance you are getting and if a different material would be better.

I see the Roxul with the calc has some very nice low low end absorption from 68hz down over the pink fluffy at 9-10 inches. I am going to build 15x15 corner soffits, in which pink fluffy is dominant in every way, but that is too big for all of my wall to ceiling and wall to floor junctions. so the cross is right at 68hz where the Roxul takes over as better. So do you think it would be effective if I were to put Roxul 10 inch soffits along the floor and Pink fluffy 10 inch soffits along the ceiling to wall junction? Or just use pink fluffy all around?


DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6143 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:33 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
sdrucker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 2,163
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 112 Post(s)
Liked: 139
Curious trivia point: this thread is in the AVS top five for the past 30 days, and #1 in the past seven days. And Keith, Jerry, and jlpowell84 are top 10 posters over the past month. Not sure if I find much of it relevant to me, but there's sure a lot of discussion going on here!

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

The Audyssey FAQ Guide can be found here:


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

sdrucker is online now  
post #6144 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,336
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 615 Post(s)
Liked: 745
Where is that info?

__________________________________________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #6145 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 12:41 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 126 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Yes Jim, I was playing with the porous calculator and found that as well that at 4 inches the 16000 is better. Honestly since using this calculator I don't understand why every single person would not check and see what frequecnies there hitting with the absorption coefficient calc. its nice to see EXACTLY what performance you are getting and if a different material would be better.

I see the Roxul with the calc has some very nice low low end absorption from 68hz down over the pink fluffy at 9-10 inches. I am going to build 15x15 corner soffits, in which pink fluffy is dominant in every way, but that is too big for all of my wall to ceiling and wall to floor junctions. so the cross is right at 68hz where the Roxul takes over as better. So do you think it would be effective if I were to put Roxul 10 inch soffits along the floor and Pink fluffy 10 inch soffits along the ceiling to wall junction? Or just use pink fluffy all around?


You can combine different materials together in the calculator. But In my experience, if you want good absorption below 50hz, go pink fluffy 18-24" thick. Model it and see what I mean.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jim19611961 is offline  
post #6146 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:17 PM
Advanced Member
 
ggsantafe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Solar Powered in the Land of Enchantment
Posts: 694
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post

Where is that info?



Jerry - click on the AVS "Home" tab at the top of the page, then scroll down the page and look in the right hand column and you'll see data on most frequent posters & threads - there are daily/7 day & 30 day slices to look at as well. You, Keith and jlpowell are definitely active participants these days.

ggsantafe is online now  
post #6147 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:31 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,233
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

I see the Roxul with the calc has some very nice low low end absorption from 68hz down over the pink fluffy at 9-10 inches. I am going to build 15x15 corner soffits, in which pink fluffy is dominant in every way, but that is too big for all of my wall to ceiling and wall to floor junctions. so the cross is right at 68hz where the Roxul takes over as better. So do you think it would be effective if I were to put Roxul 10 inch soffits along the floor and Pink fluffy 10 inch soffits along the ceiling to wall junction? Or just use pink fluffy all around?

You are drawing the wrong conclusions from the graphs. Forget everything below 0.8. Some basic information on how porous absorption works can be found here: http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#fiberglass%20traps

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #6148 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:38 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post

Curious trivia point: this thread is in the AVS top five for the past 30 days, and #1 in the past seven days. And Keith, Jerry, and jlpowell84 are top 10 posters over the past month. Not sure if I find much of it relevant to me, but there's sure a lot of discussion going on here!

Wow that is really cool! I am just having fun learning lots! I really appreciate AVS and all the input I receive. I do participate in multiple other threads as well. But I really want to get it right with the room treatments.

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6149 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:44 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

You are drawing the wrong conclusions from the graphs. Forget everything below 0.8. Some basic information on how porous absorption works can be found here: http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html#fiberglass%20traps

Below 0.8 huh. Ok I hadn't heard that yet. I do have Ethan's audio expert book with the acoustic treatment section open. I suppose I should have a read as I have been planning.

So then...can we say a smaller style soffit like 10x10 is pointless in the sense it won't do much? Would I be better with 4-6 inch panels at a 4 with an air gap behind? Like we traditionally see? Jerry has several in his room that look REALLY sharp in the white. I had figured a 10x10 soffit would be better than a panel. My front right corners I am planning 15x15 but I could squeeze 17x17. I can't any bigger though as my room is smaller

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
post #6150 of 11710 Old 11-02-2013, 01:49 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jlpowell84's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 4,082
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 180 Post(s)
Liked: 225
Btw I want to thank you all for the progress I have made so far. Sitting here with my fiancé with a cup of coffee watching Hot Fuzz. Different kind of movie but it's 5 star for bass and it sounds really good. Sure I can tell decay has potential to tighten up but one has to stop and enjoy wink.gif. Besides if it wasn't for this thread I would have had my old room configuration and MLP in a nasty null trying to keep my head back to get boundary gain for a little bass boost. So thanks Sanjay, Jerry, J_P_A and the all of you! Happy sonic bliss all!

DIY Sound Group Volt 10 surround speaker build

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

My Setup Thread

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 0 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jlpowell84 is offline  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off