Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 263 - AVS Forum
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post #7861 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post

I shouldn't have mentioned that as it's a distraction from my real question. Can ETC or something else in REW tell me which frequencies are the predominant reflections? If so, how would I go about using it to determine that?

For example, the band limited IR? Do I do a full range sweep then filter in REW or do I need to do something else?

Yes

Band limited IR is covered extensively earlier in this thread.

Do a full range sweep. Then use Ir band limiting with a touch of smoothing to make the graphs more easily read.

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post #7862 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 10:23 AM
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artur9 - I am looking forward to following your progress as I need a refresher course on what I already knew on REW as well as learning about all the stuff I never even scratched the surface on.

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post #7863 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

^ I'm not nearly experienced enough to answer specifics. Or generalities lol. Maybe provide a room drawing/photo of subs and trap placement, perhaps Sanjay Durani etc. will help.

I just went back and forth with and without traps (4), making measurements and rearranging subs/traps. Pretty time-consuming. Those more organized and experienced (and being paid...) would have a more sensible workflow. Besides, starting with a blank slate is better, you don't have any attachment to things because of $$ already spent. So measure with and without traps and look at all the different types of graphs. Try to be ruthless in your judgment (I wasn't at first, wastes a lot of time/effort).

Looks like a lot of crap below 35Hz, the hardest to treat. A lot of piling-up in the corners. Your level falls off a lot above 80Hz, I'm guessing that's your bass management XO frequency. You did have both your main speakers on when you took that bass measurement? You need both front L/R and any subs on for sub-300Hz waterfall measurement.

Above 35Hz, to 300Hz, I'd say your waterfall doesn't look too bad at all. Maybe some noise or a mode in the ~60Hz area. I just question the level >~80Hz.

 

Yes, XO for Mains are set to 80Hz, and yes both mains were on when taking measurement, but I might have left center on as well, so will have to run again.

 

As for the level about 80Hz, I think the issue was there is a "BUG" in REW that was confusing me, so now I am clear what I need to do.  I will do a bit more setup and run some of the graphs again.

 

Man, do I have a ton to learn.

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post #7864 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

Band limited IR is covered extensively earlier in this thread.

Do a full range sweep. Then use Ir band limiting with a touch of smoothing to make the graphs more easily read.

Sorry, I can't find the discussion. Can you help out with a link? It doesn't help that the search engine returns first when I search for ir.
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post #7865 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 04:42 PM
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Sorry, I can't find the discussion. Can you help out with a link? It doesn't help that the search engine returns first when I search for ir.

Its starts around page 128

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post #7866 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 05:22 PM
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Here is a good guide from @amirm on waterfalls: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?8203-Acoustic-Measurements-Understanding-Time-and-Frequency

Confirms my ramblings a few pages back. Would have been nice to know about this post sooner smile.gif
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post #7867 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 05:32 PM
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post #7868 of 12674 Old 01-10-2014, 05:38 PM
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Yeah. It's amazing what can be earned when you're not blinded by misconceptions sprouted by others!



Read between the
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post #7869 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 08:39 AM
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Hi everyone. I'm in the process of getting everything I need to start down the REW measurement rabbit hole. My wife was nice enough to take my strong hint and got me a calibrated UMM-6 microphone from Dayton Audio for Christmas. That was my way of getting her buy-in to tolerating all of the activities soon to come out of the measuring process. Anyway, now I need to get a laptop with HDMI. My question is, what are the downsides to using a MacBook vs a Windows based system? I'm trying to determine if I get a cheap Windows based or go with the MacBook that could replace my need for the desktop. Since I'm brand new to measurements I don't want to make a bad decision that would really complicate things for me. I am good with computers if that makes a difference. I appreciate any feedback anyone has on this. Thanks!

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post #7870 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

My question is, what are the downsides to using a MacBook vs a Windows based system?

Several of us use Macs but this thread supports Windows better. Get the guide by following the link in AustinJerry's post. That'll give you an indication of what you'll need to do.
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

Hi everyone. I'm in the process of getting everything I need to start down the REW measurement rabbit hole. My wife was nice enough to take my strong hint and got me a calibrated UMM-6 microphone from Dayton Audio for Christmas. That was my way of getting her buy-in to tolerating all of the activities soon to come out of the measuring process. Anyway, now I need to get a laptop with HDMI. My question is, what are the downsides to using a MacBook vs a Windows based system? I'm trying to determine if I get a cheap Windows based or go with the MacBook that could replace my need for the desktop. Since I'm brand new to measurements I don't want to make a bad decision that would really complicate things for me. I am good with computers if that makes a difference. I appreciate any feedback anyone has on this. Thanks!

Unless you are already in the Mac world (or want to be), save your money and buy a Windows PC. This is advice coming from someone posting from an iPad Mini Retina with an iPhone 5s in my pocket.

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post #7872 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Unless you are already in the Mac world (or want to be), save your money and buy a Windows PC. This is advice coming from someone posting from an iPad Mini Retina with an iPhone 5s in my pocket.

Jeff

Thanks that helps. No I don't currently have a Mac - just iPhones and iPads. And from the other reply I got it seems the help will be greater with Windows as most are on that. Thanks to both for your help.

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post #7873 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 10:40 AM
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I have both a Mac winbook and a Windows 8 PC I could not get it going properly on the Mac when book

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post #7874 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 11:00 AM
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I have both a Mac winbook and a Windows 8 PC I could not get it going properly on the Mac when book

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Thanks. I appreciate the feedback. Looks like Windows it is.

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post #7875 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 11:24 AM
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I fired up my MoniDsp and REW this morning and for some reason REW won't open an EQ window. It just spins thinking for a min or two and stops. The rest of REW still works. Any ideas?

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post #7876 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pepar View Post

Unless you are already in the Mac world (or want to be), save your money and buy a Windows PC. This is advice coming from someone posting from an iPad Mini Retina with an iPhone 5s in my pocket.

Jeff

Thanks that helps. No I don't currently have a Mac - just iPhones and iPads. And from the other reply I got it seems the help will be greater with Windows as most are on that. Thanks to both for your help.

 

I am a long time Mac user, but I bought a cheap Windows laptop for use with REW. Sole reason really was the additional support that Windows has in this thread. Jerry's guide has a useful link to a detailed examination of how REW can be used with a Mac, which may be worth looking at.  Once you are configured, there's no real difference between the two platforms, so all you need concern yourself with is getting up and running. In fact, I use Windows to make all my measurements with REW but then transfer them to my Mac for evaluation, manipulation etc etc. Mainly for the 23 inch screen on my desk rather than any real difference in workflow etc.

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post #7877 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by kbarnes701 View Post

I am a long time Mac user, but I bought a cheap Windows laptop for use with REW. Sole reason really was the additional support that Windows has in this thread. Jerry's guide has a useful link to a detailed examination of how REW can be used with a Mac, which may be worth looking at.  Once you are configured, there's no real difference between the two platforms, so all you need concern yourself with is getting up and running. In fact, I use Windows to make all my measurements with REW but then transfer them to my Mac for evaluation, manipulation etc etc. Mainly for the 23 inch screen on my desk rather than any real difference in workflow etc.

Thanks. So when choosing a cheaper laptop, other than ensuring there is an HDMI port and a USB port, are there any other must haves I should be aware of?

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post #7878 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
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I am a long time Mac user, but I bought a cheap Windows laptop for use with REW. Sole reason really was the additional support that Windows has in this thread. Jerry's guide has a useful link to a detailed examination of how REW can be used with a Mac, which may be worth looking at.  Once you are configured, there's no real difference between the two platforms, so all you need concern yourself with is getting up and running. In fact, I use Windows to make all my measurements with REW but then transfer them to my Mac for evaluation, manipulation etc etc. Mainly for the 23 inch screen on my desk rather than any real difference in workflow etc.

Thanks. So when choosing a cheaper laptop, other than ensuring there is an HDMI port and a USB port, are there any other must haves I should be aware of?

 

Sorry, I know next to nothing about Windows laptops. I was lucky I guess - mine is the cheapest I could find - it came with Windows 7 and that's about all I know about it - but it works just fine. I also use it for Audyssey Pro and OmniMic which are Windows-only. It's an Asus - that's about all I know about it :)

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post #7879 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 12:15 PM
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Unless you are already in the Mac world (or want to be), save your money and buy a Windows PC. This is advice coming from someone posting from an iPad Mini Retina with an iPhone 5s in my pocket.
Jeff

Tell that to anybody under 30. Where I live (an urban area near Northwestern's law and med schools), the only people using Windows laptops are older people and pharma reps. smile.gif We have three iPads, three iPhones, and a MacBook for the teenager, who ignores our Dell laptops as 'boring' and not as fun to use as the iToys. The four month old may grow up never knowing the blue screen of death LOL..

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The four month old may grow up never knowing the blue screen of death LOL..

 

LMFAO...

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post #7881 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 02:20 PM
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Yeah. It's amazing what can be earned when you're not blinded by misconceptions sprouted by others!

 
Read between the

 

Am I missing something?  I read all of the article you linked to and the main thing it seems to say is that if you bring down a peak in the FR, you will get a corresponding improvement in the ringing/time domain (waterfall). Isn't this blindingly obvious?

 

There is also some stuff regarding the noise floor but ever since the inception of this thread, we have been working on the basis of a 40/45dB lower limit as this corresponds to the typical noise floor in our rooms and when following the guidelines of measuring at 80dB, delivers the +35dB which we now regard as good practice (and which can be used as a guide for anyone measuring above 80dB levels).

 

I admit to not being the biggest fan of amirm, but the article I just read hasn’t done much to convince me I am mistaken in my impressions.

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So we're now saying 85 db is OK for waterfalls, with a measured noise floor of 50 db, with at least 35 db above that floor? Or as my preference for accessing bass decay, spectrograms? Fine with me....

Stuart

 

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post #7883 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 02:43 PM
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I don't know about the rest of you, but I find myself caught between narrowing my view to the meat and potatoes of things (elimination of early reflections and a fairly flat FR) and chasing down all sorts of theoretical and psychoacoustic data hoping for some new acoustic epiphany.

I spent 3 hours this morning looking over and hunting for some new piece of data or insight. While there was lots of interesting studies and data and such, non of it translated into something I can walk into my sound room and apply.

Perhaps I have reached the near end of the macro Rabbit hole. Perhaps I need to ignore the micro Rabbits.

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So we're now saying 85 db is OK for waterfalls, with a measured noise floor of 50 db, with at least 35 db above that floor? Or as my preference for accessing bass decay, spectrograms? Fine with me....

 

Whatever Jerry has in the latest issue of the Guide... but yes, I think that was our recent consensus wasn't it?  Audionut rightly pointed out that there is no point in measuring/graphing into the noise floor, and IIRC 35dB 'clearance' was regarded as enough. I personally measure at 85dB (or more) and use 45dB as my 'bottom' just to be on the safe side.

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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

I don't know about the rest of you, but I find myself caught between narrowing my view to the meat and potatoes of things (elimination of early reflections and a fairly flat FR) and chasing down all sorts of theoretical and psychoacoustic data hoping for some new acoustic epiphany.

I spent 3 hours this morning looking over and hunting for some new piece of data or insight. While there was lots of interesting studies and data and such, non of it translated into something I can walk into my sound room and apply.

Perhaps I have reached the near end of the macro Rabbit hole. Perhaps I need to ignore the micro Rabbits.

Time to just sit back with your beverage of choice and enjoy the fruits of your labors?

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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

I don't know about the rest of you, but I find myself caught between narrowing my view to the meat and potatoes of things (elimination of early reflections and a fairly flat FR) and chasing down all sorts of theoretical and psychoacoustic data hoping for some new acoustic epiphany.

I spent 3 hours this morning looking over and hunting for some new piece of data or insight. While there was lots of interesting studies and data and such, non of it translated into something I can walk into my sound room and apply.

Perhaps I have reached the near end of the macro Rabbit hole. Perhaps I need to ignore the micro Rabbits.

I don't mean to be heretical (for this thread), but HOW DOES IT SOUND? wink.gif

Jeff
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post #7887 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 03:46 PM
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Tell that to anybody under 30. Where I live (an urban area near Northwestern's law and med schools), the only people using Windows laptops are older people and pharma reps. smile.gif We have three iPads, three iPhones, and a MacBook for the teenager, who ignores our Dell laptops as 'boring' and not as fun to use as the iToys. The four month old may grow up never knowing the blue screen of death LOL..

As an Apple shareholder, I revel in your family's falling under Jobs' spell.

Jeff
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post #7888 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 03:49 PM
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Thank an iOS that has high consistency across platforms, and the App Store smile.gif.

Not all our tech is esoteric or weird haha... biggrin.gif

Stuart

 

Denon 4311 with XT32 and Audyssey Pro

Oppo 93 and 103

Panasonic VT50

Sherwood R-972 with its version of the Trinnov Optimizer

MiniDSP 10x10 HD

PSB Imagine T2, Center, and Surrounds (as of 5/2014); HSU ULS-15 subs (2)

 

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post #7889 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 04:37 PM
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I don't mean to be heretical (for this thread), but HOW DOES IT SOUND? wink.gif

Jeff

How does what sound?

rolleyes.gif

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post #7890 of 12674 Old 01-11-2014, 05:27 PM
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How does what sound?

rolleyes.gif

Your "sound room."

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