Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 295 - AVS Forum
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Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat > Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs
avtexan's Avatar avtexan 06:20 PM 02-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by avtexan View Post
 

OK gang I got my REW up and working and this is my first measurement. 

I am using the UMIK-1 and a Display port adapter to HDMI from a PC for output.

The current room has no treatments and no carpet.

 

Thoughts?   Why does it fall off so quickly after 4K

 

Edited pic for format

 

 

I was curious if anybody had a chance too look at my graphs?  It is my first go and I am really curious.

 

Is this in the correct format?

Initial thoughts?

Why the rolloff in HF from 4K & up?

Next step(s) for improvements?



Digione's Avatar Digione 06:01 PM 02-19-2014
Unfortunately I am not familiar with this mic so I would have to assume that there is a possible problem with it as the rolloff is identical on both channels, unless there is a setup problem. Hopefully somebody who has worked with it will chime in. I trust that you measured them separately as combining them would produce the effect that you are seeing unless the mic was EXACTLY an equal distance from each speaker.
At least the left and right responses are very similar.smile.gif
cuzed2's Avatar cuzed2 10:48 AM 02-20-2014
As for the high end roll-off,
A certain amount (large amount?) of this roll-off is probably because you are following the standard measuring practice of orienting the mic vertically.

I would not be too worried.
To comfort yourself - just run a quick test sweep with the mic pointed in the horizontal axis directly toward one of the mains, I'll bet you see a lot less HF "roll-off" smile.gif
jim19611961's Avatar jim19611961 11:10 AM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

As for the high end roll-off,
A certain amount (large amount?) of this roll-off is probably because you are following the standard measuring practice of orienting the mic vertically.

I would not be too worried.
To comfort yourself - just run a quick test sweep with the mic pointed in the horizontal axis directly toward one of the mains, I'll bet you see a lot less HF "roll-off" smile.gif

This.

Your sure your tweeters are working, right?
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 03:20 PM 02-20-2014
So, I had gotten everything setup and out of nowhere I get "USB Device Not Recognized" from my microphone (UMIK-1) and it says "One of the attached USB devices to this computer has malfunctioned..." Anyone seen this before? I restarted my computer, tried other USB ports and keep getting the same error message. It worked at first...
shpitz's Avatar shpitz 03:22 PM 02-20-2014
Can you verify it's detected on another computer?
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 03:26 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by shpitz View Post

Can you verify it's detected on another computer?

Just tried on my work laptop and it did not install successfully... Do I have a defective mic? It worked and installed initially and now I'm getting nothing on two computers.
shpitz's Avatar shpitz 03:29 PM 02-20-2014
Odd... can you try another cable?
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 03:31 PM 02-20-2014
Nevermind, I think i figured it out, I didn't have the cable all the way in to the mic... really had to push it in until it "clicked". Disaster averted smile.gif
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 04:30 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by cuzed2 View Post

As for the high end roll-off,
A certain amount (large amount?) of this roll-off is probably because you are following the standard measuring practice of orienting the mic vertically.

I would not be too worried.
To comfort yourself - just run a quick test sweep with the mic pointed in the horizontal axis directly toward one of the mains, I'll bet you see a lot less HF "roll-off" smile.gif

Ok so now I am confused...should my mic be pointed up, like the Audyssey mic or horizontal like I am singing into it.  Just making sure I didn't read all the stuff wrong, etc.


Digione's Avatar Digione 04:49 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

Ok so now I am confused...should my mic be pointed up, like the Audyssey mic or horizontal like I am singing into it.  Just making sure I didn't read all the stuff wrong, etc.

It should be pointed up towards the ceiling and you should load the correct mic EQ correction data that came with it for that configuration (90 degrees).
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 04:52 PM 02-20-2014
So I took my first measurments (w and w/o Audyssey) and found that for some reason, my lower end is way overpowering everything, this doesn't seem normal... Seems there is a dip in response as well right at the crossover. This doesn't look good does it?
ggsantafe's Avatar ggsantafe 05:01 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So I took my first measurments (w and w/o Audyssey) and found that for some reason, my lower end is way overpowering everything, this doesn't seem normal... Seems there is a dip in response as well right at the crossover. This doesn't look good does it?

Are you running your subs hot - did you adjust the subwoofer trim after running Audyssey? Did you take your measurements with DEQ "ON" - if so this could explain your results - Measurements should be taken with DEQ off for an accurate view of what is going on in your room.
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 05:07 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Are you running your subs hot - did you adjust the subwoofer trim after running Audyssey? Did you take your measurements with DEQ "ON" - if so this could explain your results - Measurements should be taken with DEQ off for an accurate view of what is going on in your room.

The w/o Audyssey (purple) was run with nothing on, no DEQ or D Vol. The w/ Audyssey curve does have DEQ and D volume on. I do run my subs a little hot, with the Audyssey activated, bumped the trims up about 1.5 dB.
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 06:48 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digione View Post


It should be pointed up towards the ceiling and you should load the correct mic EQ correction data that came with it for that configuration (90 degrees).


Well dang, i think i must have bought the wrong mic, I only have one calibration file...so now what, do I have to toss my $90 UMM-6 mic ?


toofast68's Avatar toofast68 06:51 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So I took my first measurments (w and w/o Audyssey) and found that for some reason, my lower end is way overpowering everything, this doesn't seem normal... Seems there is a dip in response as well right at the crossover. This doesn't look good does it?


 I bet you have MultiEQ XT vs the more advanced 32 version...your graph and mine are nearly identical.  I SWEAR there is a bug in this version of Audyssey.

 


batpig's Avatar batpig 06:58 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggsantafe View Post

Are you running your subs hot - did you adjust the subwoofer trim after running Audyssey? Did you take your measurements with DEQ "ON" - if so this could explain your results - Measurements should be taken with DEQ off for an accurate view of what is going on in your room.

The w/o Audyssey (purple) was run with nothing on, no DEQ or D Vol. The w/ Audyssey curve does have DEQ and D volume on. I do run my subs a little hot, with the Audyssey activated, bumped the trims up about 1.5 dB.

If you bumped your subs up AND you have DEQ on you shouldn't be surprised that your bass elevated. You need to measure with DEQ and DV turned off. DEQ also boosts the highs a bit which could explain the lack of high free roll off.

I would also revert the sub level to what audyssey set it, at least as a baseline measurement to confirm your system is conforming to the desired target curve.
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 07:19 PM 02-20-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


If you bumped your subs up AND you have DEQ on you shouldn't be surprised that your bass elevated. You need to measure with DEQ and DV turned off. DEQ also boosts the highs a bit which could explain the lack of high free roll off.

I would also revert the sub level to what audyssey set it, at least as a baseline measurement to confirm your system is conforming to the desired target curve.

 

Just to get this on the record :-) for me, subs were set according to Audyssey (right at 75), DEQ was off as well as DV was off.  Let's see how CheYC responds...

 

I have NO IDEA what the heck Audyssey is doing - I am convinced there is a "bug" or my AVR has screwed up the implementation of Audyssey.


markus767's Avatar markus767 01:35 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post


Well dang, i think i must have bought the wrong mic, I only have one calibration file...so now what, do I have to toss my $90 UMM-6 mic ?

Where did you buy it? At Cross Spectrum you'll get calibration data for 0°, 45° and 90°.
markus767's Avatar markus767 01:37 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

So I took my first measurments (w and w/o Audyssey) and found that for some reason, my lower end is way overpowering everything, this doesn't seem normal... Seems there is a dip in response as well right at the crossover. This doesn't look good does it?

What AVR is this?
Switch Dynamic EQ and Dolby Volume off. Make sure Double Bass is off.
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 04:05 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post


Where did you buy it? At Cross Spectrum you'll get calibration data for 0°, 45° and 90°.

I guess I got confused at all the threads and bought it from Parts Express...I "THOUGHT" I read somewhere on this thread that is the right place to buy...well guess I messed up.

 

How much of an impact does it have on the results ?


markus767's Avatar markus767 04:12 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

I guess I got confused at all the threads and bought it from Parts Express...I "THOUGHT" I read somewhere on this thread that is the right place to buy...well guess I messed up.

How much of an impact does it have on the results ?

Well, you would need to get it calibrated if you want to know.

Here's 129 different ECM8000. I'd expect the UMM-6 to be similar



From http://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=480:1000-mikrofonkalibrierungen-eine-uebersicht&catid=36:software--messtechnik&Itemid=66
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 05:36 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post


Well, you would need to get it calibrated if you want to know.

Here's 129 different ECM8000. I'd expect the UMM-6 to be similar



From http://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=480:1000-mikrofonkalibrierungen-eine-uebersicht&catid=36:software--messtechnik&Itemid=66

Ok, so not to be a dummy, but how do I get it calibrated at this point for the different axis - since my calibration file from the MFG is "undetermined".


markus767's Avatar markus767 05:39 AM 02-21-2014
^
If possible retun yours and get a calibrated mic from http://www.cross-spectrum.com
djbluemax1's Avatar djbluemax1 05:55 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by toofast68 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Ok, so not to be a dummy, but how do I get it calibrated at this point for the different axis - since my calibration file from the MFG is "undetermined".

Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

^
If possible retun yours and get a calibrated mic from http://www.cross-spectrum.com
Or, if you can't return it, you can email Herb at CSL to see if you can send it to him and have him calibrate it for a nominal fee.


Max
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 06:23 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

What AVR is this?
Switch Dynamic EQ and Dolby Volume off. Make sure Double Bass is off.

I'm using a Denon 1913, which has MultiEQ (not XT). The purple graph has nothing on as I previously mentioned, and it's still a little hot in the low region. The teal overlay DOES have DEQ and D. Vol on, so I suppose that could explain what we're seeing there. Just to be 100% sure, with the UMIK-1, the microphone head should be pointed directly towards the speaker of interest correct?
markus767's Avatar markus767 06:26 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by CheYC View Post

I'm using a Denon 1913, which has MultiEQ (not XT). The purple graph has nothing on as I previously mentioned, and it's still a little hot in the low region. The teal overlay DOES have DEQ and D. Vol on, so I suppose that could explain what we're seeing there. Just to be 100% sure, with the UMIK-1, the microphone head should be pointed directly towards the speaker of interest correct?

Redo the measurements with Dynamic EQ, Dolby Volume and Double Bass switched off. Reduce the sub gain a bit before running Audyssey. The mic should point to the ceiling. The tip of the mic needs to be at ear height.
CheYC's Avatar CheYC 06:34 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

Redo the measurements with Dynamic EQ, Dolby Volume and Double Bass switched off. Reduce the sub gain a bit before running Audyssey. The mic should point to the ceiling. The tip of the mic needs to be at ear height.

Ah, I was under the impression that for the UMIK-1 (Directly from MiniDSP) that the only calibration file (0 degree) was for the mic pointing at the speaker of interest (while at the MLP of course).
markus767's Avatar markus767 06:36 AM 02-21-2014
^
If the calibration file is for 0° only then yes, it would need to be pointed at the speaker you're measuring.
toofast68's Avatar toofast68 06:53 AM 02-21-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

^
If the calibration file is for 0° only then yes, it would need to be pointed at the speaker you're measuring.

Wow so confusing :confused:

 

I have the UMM mic from Parts Express, how do I know if the calibration is for what direction....do I point ceiling or toward the front wall ?

 

This is what my file looks like:

 

"Sens Factor =-18.294dB, SERNO: 1381227"
4.6758 -4.4317 25.6
5.099 -4.0756 25.97
5.5605 -3.7633 26.29
6.0638 -3.4739 26.27
6.6126 -3.1903 25.47
7.2111 -2.8986 24.56
7.8637 -2.5981 24.3
8.5755 -2.2988 24.12
9.3516 -2.0167 23.28
10.198 -1.7611 21.74
11.121 -1.5282 21.02
12.1275 -1.3194 20.01
13.2252 -1.1414 18.37
14.4221 -0.9992 17.54
15.7274 -0.8948 16.06
17.1509 -0.8225 15.33
18.7032 -0.7691 14.33
20.396 -0.7044 14.2
22.242 -0.6023 13.68
24.255 -0.4689 13.37
26.4503 -0.3271 12.9
28.8443 -0.202 12.06
31.4549 -0.1047 11.21
34.3018 -0.0265 10.47
37.4064 0.0459 9.88
40.7919 0.1336 9.38
44.4839 0.2385 8.69
48.5101 0.3291 7.72
52.9006 0.3837 6.87
57.6885 0.4076 5.93
62.9098 0.4187 5.16
68.6036 0.4259 4.52
74.8128 0.4311 3.95
81.5839 0.438 3.46
88.9679 0.4446 2.9
97.0201 0.45 2.42
105.8012 0.4483 1.88
115.377 0.4387 1.29
125.8196 0.4181 0.79
137.2072 0.3812 0.28
149.6255 0.3294 -0.09
163.1678 0.2762 -0.34
177.9357 0.2365 -0.45
194.0403 0.2134 -0.55
211.6024 0.1952 -0.71
230.7541 0.1701 -0.91
251.6391 0.1313 -1.08
274.4144 0.0862 -1.14
299.251 0.0523 -1.04
326.3356 0.0401 -0.94
355.8714 0.0422 -0.9
388.0806 0.0436 -0.91
423.2049 0.0449 -0.92
461.5082 0.0573 -0.92
503.2782 0.0786 -1
548.8288 0.0973 -1.2
598.5021 0.1073 -1.45
652.6711 0.1087 -1.72
711.7429 0.1081 -1.99
776.1611 0.1081 -2.31
846.4097 0.1025 -2.72
923.0163 0.0701 -3.24
1006.5565 0 -3.69
1097.6576 -0.0848 -3.87
1197.0041 -0.1551 -3.82
1305.3422 -0.1937 -3.69
1423.4858 -0.205 -3.65
1552.3223 -0.2121 -3.77
1692.8194 -0.2335 -4.02
1846.0327 -0.2802 -4.29
2013.1129 -0.3601 -4.45
2195.3152 -0.4564 -4.21
2394.0082 -0.5085 -3.57
2610.6845 -0.4708 -2.89
2846.9716 -0.365 -2.53
3104.6445 -0.2743 -2.64
3385.6389 -0.2229 -2.67
3692.0654 -0.1299 -2.47
4026.2258 0.0435 -2.39
4390.6304 0.2666 -2.74
4788.0164 0.5175 -3.63
5221.3689 0.7707 -5.17
5693.9432 0.9658 -7.28
6209.2891 1.0923 -9.58
6771.2777 1.1838 -11.86
7384.1307 1.2904 -14.24
8052.4517 1.4115 -17.04
8781.2608 1.513 -20.63
9576.0328 1.5019 -24.56
10442.738 1.3762 -28.81
11387.886 1.1589 -32.87
12418.578 0.8709 -36.62
13542.555 0.5644 -40
14768.261 0.2707 -43.17
16104.903 0.0075 -46.31
17562.522 -0.2121 -49.61
19152.066 -0.3699 -53.48
 


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