Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 301 - AVS Forum
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post #9001 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

You're using the built-in mic of your Mac for sound input? That won't work. In REW set "Input Device and Input" to "Default device" and set In/Out with the "Audio MIDI Setup" app BEFORE starting REW.
If you need to make changes to "Audio MIDI Setup", quit REW first, make changes and restart REW.

I am using the Linein and Soundflower programs as well. Not sure if that makes a difference or not?

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post #9002 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:12 PM
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You need a USB mic like a umik. Do you have one?

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post #9003 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

I am using the Linein and Soundflower programs as well. Not sure if that makes a difference or not?

When measuring your center channel only, is there sound coming from your sub?

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post #9004 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

You need a USB mic like a umik. Do you have one?

Yes, I'm using an individually calibrated UMM-6.

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post #9005 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:15 PM
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Ok so input should say sound flower not built in

Make sure line in has pass through clicked. Clap your hands to make sure a signal is being sent through

You should be good to go at that point

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post #9006 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

When measuring your center channel only, is there sound coming from your sub?

In Soundflower it allows you to pick one channel to send out via HDMI. Just to be sure though I did manually shut off my sub when performing the center channel measurement.

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post #9007 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

In Soundflower it allows you to pick one channel to send out via HDMI. Just to be sure though I did manually shut off my sub when performing the center channel measurement.

So is this a yes or a no??

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post #9008 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

So is this a yes or a no??

It's a no - I turned the sub off manually, so no sound was coming from it.

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post #9009 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:31 PM
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^
Your center goes down into the 20Hz region, very suspect. What kind of center is this?

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post #9010 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post

^
Your center goes down into the 20Hz region, very suspect. What kind of center is this?

It's a Paradigm CC-290 V6. When I run an Audyssey calibration it usually sets it at either 40 or 60hz and I always raise it to 80hz.

Edit - I need to re-run measurements after taking into account Brian's suggestion above that selects Soundflower as the input rather than the default. That hopefully will product different results.

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post #9011 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:36 PM
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^
Then something is definitely wrong. You should see a drop-off below the crossover frequency. Check signal routing within Soundflower.

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post #9012 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:43 PM
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Yeah and no cc ever should be able to get response that low. The key clue is that the curve is exactly the same for cc and for the sub. Meaning something is a foot

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post #9013 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:48 PM
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OK, I followed Brian's advice above and reran the three measurements. Here is what I got this time using Soundflower 64ch as the input:



Red = center channel
Green = sub
Blue = center + sub

Not sure if this one looks better or not?

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post #9014 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:50 PM
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Yes that looks much better. I would turn the subs down so they are more in a straight line for db with your cc. Right now it's waaaaay too hot. Then you can always bump it up 3db or so

Also the only other issue I see is the sub should be rolling off around 80hz if you have the xover engaged. And is not. Hmmmm

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post #9015 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:54 PM
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Thanks to all for your help. I really appreciate it. The wife, daughter, and nephew just arrived so I'll have to do measurements again soon. I will definitely have to adjust the sub - I just wonder why my AVR says it's at 75db when I run the Audyssey calibration. Next time I'll double check with my RS SPL meter.

Thanks again.

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post #9016 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 02:58 PM
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Your welcome. It's quite possible the mic is defective. And did you measure with te mic at ear level on a tripod or boom stand?

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post #9017 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Your welcome. It's quite possible the mic is defective. And did you measure with te mic at ear level on a tripod or boom stand?

Yes I do have the boom stand and adapter. I do have a backup mic from a slightly older receiver so perhaps I should try a calibration with that one.

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post #9018 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 03:10 PM
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No don't unless the receivers are the same brand. Generally they are made specifically for each model avr

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post #9019 of 11036 Old 03-08-2014, 05:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No don't unless the receivers are the same brand. Generally they are made specifically for each model avr

Same brand - both Onkyo's. I'll double check but they both look like the same mic.

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post #9020 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 01:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

OK, I followed Brian's advice above and reran the three measurements. Here is what I got this time using Soundflower 64ch as the input:



Red = center channel
Green = sub
Blue = center + sub

Not sure if this one looks better or not?

So the sub was on in your first measurements when you were measuring the center.

What we're seeing now is the 10dB boost and LPF of the LFE channel. That's how it should look like.

If you want to measure the redirected bass from C going to the subwoofer you would need to switch off/disconnect the center.

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post #9021 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Your welcome. It's quite possible the mic is defective. And did you measure with te mic at ear level on a tripod or boom stand?

I think our issue is what marcus explained...we are sending "duplicate" signals to the sub...I will be able to test once I get my new mic (which I doubt was the issue)

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post #9022 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 09:33 AM
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My wife asked me to rearrange the rear panels a little more aesthetically so I thought I'd post some ETCs as before and after. The rear absorbers I had just arranged as a solid wall.

But, although there's a visible improvement, the two graphs are right on top of each other. Any tricks for how to present/compare these?

These ETC are just to compare the effect of rear absorbers. I haven't tried to address the sides yet as there aren't really any walls.

No RC of any kind. Right only. Red is with no panels and green is with all the panels up separated slightly for aesthetics. 'Course the panels are ugly in any case as they are home made smile.gif These are full bandwidth. I used soundflower to turn off the left channel. This is using the REW overlay feature.



I see some improvement but I really need to figure out what's causing that reflection at around 2ms.

Here are the before and after as separate images. I don't understand why the green trace is so much noisier but I do know that on my laptop, REW misbehaves after too many measurements and needs to be restarted. Also, the laptop gets hot and its fan and disk start to affect measurements mad.gif .

No Rear Panels


Mjultiple rear panels



I will attempt to stay in my happy place as the comments come in smile.gif
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post #9023 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 09:55 AM
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Any tricks for how to present/compare these?


I see some improvement but I really need to figure out what's causing that reflection at around 2ms.

I usually apply a bit of smoothing (.1 or .2 ms) for comparing.

My first guess as to the 2ms reflection is from the floor. Try putting absorbent midway between the LP and speaker to see if the plot moves.

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post #9024 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

No don't unless the receivers are the same brand. Generally they are made specifically for each model avr

OK, I re-ran Audyssey with the newer mic (I realized I had received a replacement mic a while back and hadn't used it.
My center measured at 50hz, which i raised to 80hz.

Then I did the three measurements again and came up with this graph:



Red = center channel
Green = sub
Blue = center + sub

Hopefully this one looks better. I'm still learning how to read these graphs.

Edit: I did notice an improvement in the Audyssey calibration after using the replacement mic. It sounds better to me.

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KK: Your bass is still elevated. Just for grins, take a measurement with all channels and subs driven at once. Lets see if the bass elevation smooths out (I have a hunch).

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post #9026 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

KK: Your bass is still elevated. Just for grins, take a measurement with all channels and subs driven at once. Lets see if the bass elevation smooths out (I have a hunch).

This is with Audyssey on, Dynamic EQ off, and all channels driven:


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Smoothing of .2ms makes the difference readily apparent. Thanks, Jim!

Red is no absorbers. Green is several absorbers. Right speaker only. Left needs even more work.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post

Try putting absorbent midway between the LP and speaker to see if the plot moves.

artur9: don't know if Jim was also partly referring to this, but putting a couple panels on the ceiling in the position he mentioned makes a huge difference for me. Did more than any other 2 panels I put anywhere did, both in measurement and by ear. I have to say it is still weirding me out a bit having stuff "up there", it's only been a week and I guess I'll get used to it. They were really hard for me to put up, so that they were hanging even and square to the walls etc. etc. but are definitely worth it here. Drastically improved my ETCs, I never did use the "string method" on the ceilings because it was too much PITA, but now I know where all the crap I couldn't figure out otherwise is coming from.
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post #9029 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KK in CT View Post

This is with Audyssey on, Dynamic EQ off, and all channels driven:


Good. Now we ae getting somewhere.

This explains why it doesn't sound too bassy to you. Because it isn't. Somehow, when measuring one channel at a time, your sub is getting feed more than one channel. This was my hunch.

Now, using the "measure all channels at once" method, you can play with the XO frequency to maybe fill in the dip around 80hz.

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post #9030 of 11036 Old 03-09-2014, 01:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post

artur9: don't know if Jim was also partly referring to this, but putting a couple panels on the ceiling in the position he mentioned makes a huge difference for me. Did more than any other 2 panels I put anywhere did, both in measurement and by ear. I have to say it is still weirding me out a bit having stuff "up there", it's only been a week and I guess I'll get used to it. They were really hard for me to put up, so that they were hanging even and square to the walls etc. etc. but are definitely worth it here. Drastically improved my ETCs, I never did use the "string method" on the ceilings because it was too much PITA, but now I know where all the crap I couldn't figure out otherwise is coming from.

Ceiling reflections usually happen after 2ms, unless you have very tall speakers and a very low ceiling. But your point is a good one. The ceiling needs attention if one is to complete eradicating early reflections.

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