Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 369 - AVS Forum
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post #11041 of 11055 Old Today, 10:15 AM
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Your MDAT file doesn't have any of the Audyssey ON measurements.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #11042 of 11055 Old Today, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I agree, less peaks for Audyssey to pull down = less distortion + more headroom.

UNLESS, location B doesn't give you enough headroom, then you may be forced to use location A.

Also, the scale is wrong on your graphs. Should be 45-105 on the vertical and 15-200 on the horizontal.

Oh, and really no need to measure so loudly. You could pull down the MV 5 or 10db and still be fine.
I'm a noob at this, but I was concerned about the rather large null at 45Hz in the B location (red graph in the first chart in prev post)? If I understand correctly, placement is the best (maybe only) way to get rid of a null and I figured the fewer the nulls the better since the peaks can be fixed through Audyssey.

My bad on the 300 horiz graph.

Here is the "refined" location A graph that shows the subs w/o aud (red) and with aud (blue). it appears that audyssey only pulled down one peak. Is this acceptable, does that alleviate your concerns about my location A?


Oops - just noticed one of the graphs in my prev post was not quite correct. This is the "refined" location A graph with both subs and mains running with aud. The graph in my prev post showed only the left sub with the mains.


I'm having some issues with volumes when measuring. When I hit the CHECK LEVELS button, sometimes it will say the level is too low but when I run the test, I almost run out of headroom. ??? I need to re-read the REW guide to find out what's wrong - likely a setting on my part.
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post #11043 of 11055 Old Today, 10:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Your MDAT file doesn't have any of the Audyssey ON measurements.
I linked two mdat files on my post, you must have only got the first one.

FYI - the first mdat shows subs only w/o aud so I could compare the 3 locations. After that test, I assumed location A was better so I level matched again, ran aud, and measured to create the 2nd mdat named 8-19 location A final. It is the latest and greatest.
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post #11044 of 11055 Old Today, 10:59 AM
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Sorry, Alan, my intention is not to pick on you, but your description of the sub distance tweak is oversimplified. It actually consists of two distinct steps. The first step involves measuring the two subs by themselves, and varying their distances to achieve the flattest response, for the sub channel only. Then measure both subs combined with the center speaker. Adjust the distances of both subs by the same amount in order to achieve the flattest response between the combined subs and the center at the crossover point. The sub distance tweak is not guaranteed to produce significant results (if makes very little difference in my setup, for example), but should always be tried to ensure the best results.

And why do you say that the graph scales are incorrect. We have agreed that the vertical scale should show 5dB increments, which it does, and that the horizontal scale should be 15-300Hz, which it is. I believe this is documented in the Guide.

HST, I agree with both you and Jim that the red graph looks to be the best measurement. Next step woul be to see the effect Audyssey has on placement B so we can make a final comparison.
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post #11045 of 11055 Old Today, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post


I'm having some issues with volumes when measuring. When I hit the CHECK LEVELS button, sometimes it will say the level is too low but when I run the test, I almost run out of headroom. ??? I need to re-read the REW guide to find out what's wrong - likely a setting on my part.
There is nowhere in the Guide that says to hit the Check Levels button. Is that the button on the measurements screen? Ignore it, and just make sure your levels aren't high enough to produce clipping.
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post #11046 of 11055 Old Today, 11:08 AM
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Here is the mdat for the latest and greatest test which only shows location A, with and w/o aud. This is my much preferred location so I hope the results are decent. This is the 2nd mdat from my prev post.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...A%20Final.mdat
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post #11047 of 11055 Old Today, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sorry, Alan, my intention is not to pick on you, but your description of the sub distance tweak is oversimplified. It actually consists of two distinct steps. The first step involves measuring the two subs by themselves, and varying their distances to achieve the flattest response, for the sub channel only. Then measure both subs combined with the center speaker. Adjust the distances of both subs by the same amount in order to achieve the flattest response between the combined subs and the center at the crossover point. The sub distance tweak is not guaranteed to produce significant results (if makes very little difference in my setup, for example), but should always be tried to ensure the best results.

And why do you say that the graph scales are incorrect. We have agreed that the vertical scale should show 5dB increments, which it does, and that the horizontal scale should be 15-300Hz, which it is. I believe this is documented in the Guide.

HST, I agree with both you and Jim that the red graph looks to be the best measurement. Next step woul be to see the effect Audyssey has on placement B so we can make a final comparison.
Feel free to pick on me, Jerry. I don't mind at all.

In my defense, I wasn't aware the OP had an AVR that could calibrate dual subs separately. I also never heard that you should perform the tweak with subs+center....I always read it should be sub+FL/R.

If this indeed is the case, I've been doing it wrong for a really long time. However, it has always produced dramatic results around the crossover point in my system.

RE: graph scale. I obviously need to read the revised guide. Sorry about that. I'm just going by this post from kbarnes, and have been using those settings myself for posting graphs since day one.

Again, sorry if I caused any confusion.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #11048 of 11055 Old Today, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
I'm having some issues with volumes when measuring. When I hit the CHECK LEVELS button, sometimes it will say the level is too low but when I run the test, I almost run out of headroom. ??? I need to re-read the REW guide to find out what's wrong - likely a setting on my part.
Which mic are you using? Are you calibrating the SPL before taking measurements?

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #11049 of 11055 Old Today, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zee-man View Post
Here is the mdat for the latest and greatest test which only shows location A, with and w/o aud. This is my much preferred location so I hope the results are decent. This is the 2nd mdat from my prev post.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...A%20Final.mdat
After just a cursory look at the MDAT....if there's a way you could put both subs in the "R" position, I think you would get a much flatter response.

Is DynEQ off when you are measuring?

Also, don't forget to try the distance tweak (as Jerry described how to do above ).

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #11050 of 11055 Old Today, 11:16 AM
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No harm done, Alan. The time-honored Sub Distance Tweak can be viewed here. I believe KBarnes authored the actual document, but the procedure is really Craig John's and Mark Seaton's.

If the OP doesn't have dual sub channels, then of course the subs should be equidistant, and the procedure needs to be modified accordingly.

Edit: With regards to using the center vs L+R, the reason is that the center is much more important for movie content, so getting the splice correct with the center provides the most benefit. If you then check the splice with the L+R, it is usually optimized as well. If not, stick with optimizing the center+subs.

Last edited by AustinJerry; Today at 11:19 AM.
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post #11051 of 11055 Old Today, 11:48 AM
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Thanks Jerry!

What do you do if the splice with the L/R is NOT good after your optimize the splice with the center? Should you adjust the distance of the L/R speakers?? I'm guessing no.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4 + MiniDSP 2x4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
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post #11052 of 11055 Old Today, 12:26 PM
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Never adjust the distances of the main speakers. Any difference is likely to be small, based on my experience. If the difference were significant, then I would let my ears be the judge. Don't know what other options there might be.
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post #11053 of 11055 Old Today, 06:10 PM
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I got another sub at auction and my new UMIK-1 to replace a failed UMM6. I'd also moved 2 of my subs to the front wall in preparation for trying flanking subs with a higher crossover setting.

After taking the below measurements I noticed the little foam cover for the mic. Do I have to use that?

After some fiddling I got the following results. Despite the labels the L+R were on the whole time.

The question I have is this. I did a 15-300Hz sweep that looked good but then when I did a 15-20K Hz sweep it looked terrible. I repeated the bass-only sweep and that looked the same as the red sweep again.

No smoothing, no DSP other than the one parametric setting on the Dayton SA1000 knock-off (which wasn't very effective, BTW).

Green is before any adjustments, red is with everything dialed in, then blue is full frequency sweep. Any idea why the blue looks different from the red?
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post #11054 of 11055 Old Today, 06:25 PM
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The part of the measurement below the crossover point should look about the same whether you are measuring to 300Hz, or whether it is a full sweep. May I assume that you are running the mains as "small" with a crossover? What is the crossover value?

The level for the full sweep measurement looks low. Any idea why it would be so much lower?

And the little foam thing can be used or not--it doesn't make a difference. It is acoustically transparent.

Edit: BTW, what do you mean, "dialed in".

Last edited by AustinJerry; Today at 06:28 PM.
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post #11055 of 11055 Old Today, 06:30 PM
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The crossover is set to 120Hz.

That whole blue measurement is strange because I touched nothing other than to change the sweep to 20KHz. Then I changed it back to 300Hz and the measurement was identical to the red line again.

By "dialed in" I meant I was happy with the measurements for now.
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