Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 377 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11281 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 10:47 AM
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The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
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post #11282 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Did the same test on my laptop. Same result. Kinda rules out the computer doesn't it?
(wild guess) some sort of resonance produced by the longer, more stressful, sweep length?

I would try doing some different measurements to see if any other setting behaves normally, for example; a reduced bandwidth sweep, lower sweep level, sub only.

Basically just looking to see if behaviour varies in any way under different conditions as that might provide a lead as to what is going on.
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post #11283 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:00 AM
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I ran the tests again.





It doesn't look like I am getting the variances you are, Jim. At least the variances are not large.
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post #11284 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I ran the tests again.





It doesn't look like I am getting the variances you are, Jim. At least the variances are not large.
Your not looking at the data correctly.

Firstly, it doesnt show up on Fr graphs, even mine.

Secondly, is that 2ms smoothing on the ETC? If so, thats too much. Reduce to 0.2ms or none and see. You need to normalize the plots as well for the ETC and look at the IR in a 5ms window.

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post #11285 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Saril View Post
Alan (or anyone) - have you ever measured a noise floor lower than 50 dB C/Slow using the UMIK-1 and REW? I am reading around 40 - 43 dB C/Slow with my UMIK-1 and SPL reads about 10 dB higher. Thanks for any insight with this.
I use a UMM-6 and I've never tried to measure any noise floor except the one in my living room which is about 50-55db regardless if I use the mic or the SPL meter.
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post #11286 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I'll try and run some tests tomorrow. Testing for understanding, you want me to take several consecutive measurements, being careful to not alter anything, and simply varying sweep length from 128 to 1M?
I have a bunch of these too, from the last couple times I asked this very same question here. Nobody here was interested then...maybe I'll post them in the HTS thread. I don't think I've ever actually posted there before and I couldn't post files (or something like that...) the last time I tried.

My recollection is there was a slight but noticeable diff depending on sweep length, and the best I got based on a previous post of John's is that it could probably be attributed to a better S/N with the longer/slower sweeps. Even the long sweeps are pretty fast, I always do a full frequency sweep even if I'm only interested in <300Hz, it's come in handy a few times having the full range after all.
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post #11287 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
I have a bunch of these too, from the last couple times I asked this very same question here. Nobody here was interested then...maybe I'll post them in the HTS thread. I don't think I've ever actually posted there before and I couldn't post files (or something like that...) the last time I tried.

My recollection is there was a slight but noticeable diff depending on sweep length, and the best I got based on a previous post of John's is that it could probably be attributed to a better S/N with the longer/slower sweeps. Even the long sweeps are pretty fast, I always do a full frequency sweep even if I'm only interested in <300Hz, it's come in handy a few times having the full range after all.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...sparities.html

Here is the link.

We need to find out who is having the issue and who isnt. All we know so far is John and Marcus are not. All of you really need to look at John's post there to see the relevant data and how to look at it. If it turns out I am the only one with the problem, then thats one thing. If several of us are, we need to pin it down, fix it, and perhaps put an entry in the guide so people can avoid this problem.

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Last edited by jim19611961; 08-29-2014 at 11:43 AM.
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post #11288 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Did the same test on my laptop. Same result. Kinda rules out the computer doesn't it?
Does your computer and /or laptop have a soundcard with analog in/out? Just do a loopback and check if the anomaly persists.
You should also check what OS, Java and REW version you're running.

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post #11289 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Does your computer and /or laptop have a soundcard with analog in/out? Just do a loopback and check if the anomaly persists.
You should also check what OS, Java and REW version you're running.
Both computers only have 1/8" mic inputs. No other input types. Like i implied before, trying to get a loopback going is problematic.

My main computer runs Vista, and has the latest Java and REW versions.

My Laptop uses XP, and uses a older version of REW and Java.

I am beginning to think it might be a mic incompatibility. I use a Dayton UMM-6. Might be good to find out who uses what in this regard.

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post #11290 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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What exact versions? Please get that info to John. He needs to be able to replicate the problem, otherwise there will be no solution.

Could you post a screenshot of REW Preferences > Analysis?

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post #11291 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What exact versions? Please get that info to John. He needs to be able to replicate the problem, otherwise there will be no solution.

Could you post a screenshot of REW Preferences > Analysis?
Java version: Version 7 Update 67
REW version: 5.01 Beta 22 build 3423
Vista version: Home Premium SP1 (with all MS updates)

Click image for larger version

Name:	REW Analysis.JPG
Views:	49
Size:	114.0 KB
ID:	235401

Click image for larger version

Name:	REW preferences.JPG
Views:	44
Size:	129.8 KB
ID:	235409

I will copy this all to the HTS thread.

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post #11292 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
A note of thanks, a question, and a suggestion.

First, thank-you for your REW guide--it is what eventually pushed me over the edge into a "you can do this" mentality. I have followed so many tutorials (typically involving linux installations) that skip important steps I have become weary of making the attempt as it usually involves working backward when something doesn't happen as explained in the guide, and then I have to teach myself why certain file permissions or ownerships are not being assigned as the guide assumes, etc. Frustrating, and takes so much longer than it first appears. Your guide is well designed and quite exhaustive.

A question regarding the following: you suggest using HDMI1 and HDMI2 with PLII engaged to set the center channel. Would using HDMI3 in direct mode return a different level, assuming you mute L and R? Is there a reason behind doing it the PLII way instead?

And finally, as a suggestion from someone who gets lost easily, when you describe Markus767's method of setting levels via RTA, you use the phrase "adjust 60Hz or 30Hz". It could be clearer as to how you are adjusting these frequencies. I simply adjusted the physical gain knob on my sub to achieve this, but have no idea if that is what's intended.
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post #11293 of 20531 Old 08-29-2014, 06:56 PM
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post
A note of thanks, a question, and a suggestion.

First, thank-you for your REW guide--it is what eventually pushed me over the edge into a "you can do this" mentality. I have followed so many tutorials (typically involving linux installations) that skip important steps I have become weary of making the attempt as it usually involves working backward when something doesn't happen as explained in the guide, and then I have to teach myself why certain file permissions or ownerships are not being assigned as the guide assumes, etc. Frustrating, and takes so much longer than it first appears. Your guide is well designed and quite exhaustive.

A question regarding the following: you suggest using HDMI1 and HDMI2 with PLII engaged to set the center channel. Would using HDMI3 in direct mode return a different level, assuming you mute L and R? Is there a reason behind doing it the PLII way instead?

And finally, as a suggestion from someone who gets lost easily, when you describe Markus767's method of setting levels via RTA, you use the phrase "adjust 60Hz or 30Hz". It could be clearer as to how you are adjusting these frequencies. I simply adjusted the physical gain knob on my sub to achieve this, but have no idea if that is what's intended.
Thank you for the kind words.

Regarding the use of PLII for measuring the center channel, thanks for pointing this out. You may recall that I mentioned that my HDMI laptop only supports a stereo connection, so PLII is the only choice I have. I will modify that passage to suggest HDMI3 for hardware configurations that support a full 7.1 connection.

And regarding the RTA procedure, I'll review that section to see if I can make it a bit more clear.

Thanks for taking the time to review the updated section, and for the valued feedback.
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post #11294 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 12:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
Jerry, just a minor suggestion for improvement. When you talk about level calibration signals you should add RMS, e.g. -30dB FS RMS. The signal itself "wiggles" around that value.

Markus

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post #11295 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 05:48 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Jerry, just a minor suggestion for improvement. When you talk about level calibration signals you should add RMS, e.g. -30dB FS RMS. The signal itself "wiggles" around that value.
Yes, I know what you mean, and that is a good suggestion. I'll make that change. Thanks for reviewing the new section.
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post #11296 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 07:01 AM
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Jerry, were you able to get those different sweep length graphs displayed properly? Outcome?

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post #11297 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Jerry, were you able to get those different sweep length graphs displayed properly? Outcome?
Here are some measurements I took using my desktop system. They are 500-2000Hz sweeps. Using UMIK-1 mic, Java drivers, 48Khz sampling rate.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...for%20Jim.mdat

Frequency response looks OK, ETC has significant difference. No Waterfall, since sweeps start at 500Hz.
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post #11298 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Here are some measurements I took using my desktop system. They are 500-2000Hz sweeps. Using UMIK-1 mic, Java drivers, 48Khz sampling rate.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...for%20Jim.mdat

Frequency response looks OK, ETC has significant difference. No Waterfall, since sweeps start at 500Hz.
Thanks.

So now I am certain someone other than me is having the same issue.

What we need to ultimately find out is what you and I both are doing differently than Marcus and John. My latest suspicion is that Marcus and John use loopback, and you and I do not. Or, it has something to do with USB mics.

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post #11299 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 09:45 AM
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I use a UMM-6 and I've never tried to measure any noise floor except the one in my living room which is about 50-55db regardless if I use the mic or the SPL meter.
Same here - the only place I care about measuring is my living room. Thanks
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post #11300 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 12:01 PM
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Thanks.

So now I am certain someone other than me is having the same issue.

What we need to ultimately find out is what you and I both are doing differently than Marcus and John. My latest suspicion is that Marcus and John use loopback, and you and I do not. Or, it has something to do with USB mics.
If I become super motivated, or get real bored, I could fire up the legacy REW kit (calibrated EMM-6 with external SoundBlaster X-Fi sound card). With this set-up I could configure a loop-back to test out that hypothesis.
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post #11301 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 03:32 PM
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Well, I was unsuccessful in getting my legacy REW kit to work. I have a bad component somewhere in the chain, either the SoundBlaster or the Mixer, or perhaps a cable. Very frustrating. I am now considering throwing the entire legacy kit in the trash so I won't be tempted to try it again. I'm taking a couple of weeks off from REW now...
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post #11302 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 04:40 PM
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Ok I am going to buy a cheap PC just for REW will this work?

Asus F205TA
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post #11303 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Well, I was unsuccessful in getting my legacy REW kit to work. I have a bad component somewhere in the chain, either the SoundBlaster or the Mixer, or perhaps a cable. Very frustrating. I am now considering throwing the entire legacy kit in the trash so I won't be tempted to try it again. I'm taking a couple of weeks off from REW now...
"A" for effort.

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Ok I am going to buy a cheap PC just for REW will this work?

Asus F205TA
Unless I'm mistaken, the F205TA isn't out yet, so it's hard to say. I doubt it'll have HDMI (although I could be wrong), so if you're hoping to use the simplified setup described in this thread, you might run into problems.
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post #11305 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 06:28 PM
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Ok I am going to buy a cheap PC just for REW will this work?

Asus F205TA
I couldn't find any specs on it. Do you have a link? If you buy it, make sure you can return it if it doesn't work out.
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Hi. Sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i have a question...is it possible to use rew on my laptop (DELL 7720) using the internal mic? I have my laptop connected with hdmi to my receiver...is it possible to measure the front L, R and subs to see how they sound in my MLP? Sorry but i am a noob in using REW...
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post #11307 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Thanks.

So now I am certain someone other than me is having the same issue.

What we need to ultimately find out is what you and I both are doing differently than Marcus and John. My latest suspicion is that Marcus and John use loopback, and you and I do not. Or, it has something to do with USB mics.
Hi Jim,

I switched off loopback and even tried to create severe mismatch of sample rates and bit depths but the resulting impulse responses never looked as dissimilar as what you and Jerry have shown. I'm running REW on a Mac.

Markus

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post #11308 of 20531 Old 08-30-2014, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
Hi. Sorry i didnt read the whole thread but i have a question...is it possible to use rew on my laptop (DELL 7720) using the internal mic? I have my laptop connected with hdmi to my receiver...is it possible to measure the front L, R and subs to see how they sound in my MLP? Sorry but i am a noob in using REW...
No, you need a better microphone. Please see Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs
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Thank you
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post #11310 of 20531 Old 08-31-2014, 12:06 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Jerry, just a minor suggestion for improvement. When you talk about level calibration signals you should add RMS, e.g. -30dB FS RMS. The signal itself "wiggles" around that value.
Markus, is that necessary? The generator in step 8 shows "RMS Level dB FS," so when you dial up "-30" that covers it. Besides, there's no option for anything else.

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