Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 377 - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 52Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #11281 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 10:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Did the same test on my laptop. Same result. Kinda rules out the computer doesn't it?

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...
jim19611961 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #11282 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 10:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked: 693
The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
Bluescale likes this.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #11283 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 10:57 AM
Senior Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 392
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 119 Post(s)
Liked: 32
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Did the same test on my laptop. Same result. Kinda rules out the computer doesn't it?
(wild guess) some sort of resonance produced by the longer, more stressful, sweep length?

I would try doing some different measurements to see if any other setting behaves normally, for example; a reduced bandwidth sweep, lower sweep level, sub only.

Basically just looking to see if behaviour varies in any way under different conditions as that might provide a lead as to what is going on.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #11284 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:00 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked: 693
I ran the tests again.





It doesn't look like I am getting the variances you are, Jim. At least the variances are not large.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #11285 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:19 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I ran the tests again.





It doesn't look like I am getting the variances you are, Jim. At least the variances are not large.
Your not looking at the data correctly.

Firstly, it doesnt show up on Fr graphs, even mine.

Secondly, is that 2ms smoothing on the ETC? If so, thats too much. Reduce to 0.2ms or none and see. You need to normalize the plots as well for the ETC and look at the IR in a 5ms window.

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...

Last edited by jim19611961; Yesterday at 11:27 AM.
jim19611961 is online now  
post #11286 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:29 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City, South Dakota
Posts: 2,159
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 355 Post(s)
Liked: 208
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post
Alan (or anyone) - have you ever measured a noise floor lower than 50 dB C/Slow using the UMIK-1 and REW? I am reading around 40 - 43 dB C/Slow with my UMIK-1 and SPL reads about 10 dB higher. Thanks for any insight with this.
I use a UMM-6 and I've never tried to measure any noise floor except the one in my living room which is about 50-55db regardless if I use the mic or the SPL meter.

AVR: DENON 2113ci
FL/R: Klipschorn
CC: Klipsch RC64ii
SUR: Polk LS F/X x 4
SUB: PSA XS15 x 4
DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740
Alan P is online now  
post #11287 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cfraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Posts: 1,268
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Liked: 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I'll try and run some tests tomorrow. Testing for understanding, you want me to take several consecutive measurements, being careful to not alter anything, and simply varying sweep length from 128 to 1M?
I have a bunch of these too, from the last couple times I asked this very same question here. Nobody here was interested then...maybe I'll post them in the HTS thread. I don't think I've ever actually posted there before and I couldn't post files (or something like that...) the last time I tried.

My recollection is there was a slight but noticeable diff depending on sweep length, and the best I got based on a previous post of John's is that it could probably be attributed to a better S/N with the longer/slower sweeps. Even the long sweeps are pretty fast, I always do a full frequency sweep even if I'm only interested in <300Hz, it's come in handy a few times having the full range after all.
cfraser is offline  
post #11288 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
I have a bunch of these too, from the last couple times I asked this very same question here. Nobody here was interested then...maybe I'll post them in the HTS thread. I don't think I've ever actually posted there before and I couldn't post files (or something like that...) the last time I tried.

My recollection is there was a slight but noticeable diff depending on sweep length, and the best I got based on a previous post of John's is that it could probably be attributed to a better S/N with the longer/slower sweeps. Even the long sweeps are pretty fast, I always do a full frequency sweep even if I'm only interested in <300Hz, it's come in handy a few times having the full range after all.
http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...sparities.html

Here is the link.

We need to find out who is having the issue and who isnt. All we know so far is John and Marcus are not. All of you really need to look at John's post there to see the relevant data and how to look at it. If it turns out I am the only one with the problem, then thats one thing. If several of us are, we need to pin it down, fix it, and perhaps put an entry in the guide so people can avoid this problem.

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...

Last edited by jim19611961; Yesterday at 11:43 AM.
jim19611961 is online now  
post #11289 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Did the same test on my laptop. Same result. Kinda rules out the computer doesn't it?
Does your computer and /or laptop have a soundcard with analog in/out? Just do a loopback and check if the anomaly persists.
You should also check what OS, Java and REW version you're running.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #11290 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Does your computer and /or laptop have a soundcard with analog in/out? Just do a loopback and check if the anomaly persists.
You should also check what OS, Java and REW version you're running.
Both computers only have 1/8" mic inputs. No other input types. Like i implied before, trying to get a loopback going is problematic.

My main computer runs Vista, and has the latest Java and REW versions.

My Laptop uses XP, and uses a older version of REW and Java.

I am beginning to think it might be a mic incompatibility. I use a Dayton UMM-6. Might be good to find out who uses what in this regard.

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...

Last edited by jim19611961; Yesterday at 11:53 AM.
jim19611961 is online now  
post #11291 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 11:51 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Liked: 232
What exact versions? Please get that info to John. He needs to be able to replicate the problem, otherwise there will be no solution.

Could you post a screenshot of REW Preferences > Analysis?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #11292 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 12:02 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What exact versions? Please get that info to John. He needs to be able to replicate the problem, otherwise there will be no solution.

Could you post a screenshot of REW Preferences > Analysis?
Java version: Version 7 Update 67
REW version: 5.01 Beta 22 build 3423
Vista version: Home Premium SP1 (with all MS updates)

REW Analysis.JPG

REW preferences.JPG

I will copy this all to the HTS thread.

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...

Last edited by jim19611961; Yesterday at 12:22 PM.
jim19611961 is online now  
post #11293 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 06:47 PM
Advanced Member
 
HDgaming42's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Alberta, Canada
Posts: 555
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
A note of thanks, a question, and a suggestion.

First, thank-you for your REW guide--it is what eventually pushed me over the edge into a "you can do this" mentality. I have followed so many tutorials (typically involving linux installations) that skip important steps I have become weary of making the attempt as it usually involves working backward when something doesn't happen as explained in the guide, and then I have to teach myself why certain file permissions or ownerships are not being assigned as the guide assumes, etc. Frustrating, and takes so much longer than it first appears. Your guide is well designed and quite exhaustive.

A question regarding the following: you suggest using HDMI1 and HDMI2 with PLII engaged to set the center channel. Would using HDMI3 in direct mode return a different level, assuming you mute L and R? Is there a reason behind doing it the PLII way instead?

And finally, as a suggestion from someone who gets lost easily, when you describe Markus767's method of setting levels via RTA, you use the phrase "adjust 60Hz or 30Hz". It could be clearer as to how you are adjusting these frequencies. I simply adjusted the physical gain knob on my sub to achieve this, but have no idea if that is what's intended.
Bluescale likes this.
HDgaming42 is offline  
post #11294 of 11297 Old Yesterday, 06:56 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post
A note of thanks, a question, and a suggestion.

First, thank-you for your REW guide--it is what eventually pushed me over the edge into a "you can do this" mentality. I have followed so many tutorials (typically involving linux installations) that skip important steps I have become weary of making the attempt as it usually involves working backward when something doesn't happen as explained in the guide, and then I have to teach myself why certain file permissions or ownerships are not being assigned as the guide assumes, etc. Frustrating, and takes so much longer than it first appears. Your guide is well designed and quite exhaustive.

A question regarding the following: you suggest using HDMI1 and HDMI2 with PLII engaged to set the center channel. Would using HDMI3 in direct mode return a different level, assuming you mute L and R? Is there a reason behind doing it the PLII way instead?

And finally, as a suggestion from someone who gets lost easily, when you describe Markus767's method of setting levels via RTA, you use the phrase "adjust 60Hz or 30Hz". It could be clearer as to how you are adjusting these frequencies. I simply adjusted the physical gain knob on my sub to achieve this, but have no idea if that is what's intended.
Thank you for the kind words.

Regarding the use of PLII for measuring the center channel, thanks for pointing this out. You may recall that I mentioned that my HDMI laptop only supports a stereo connection, so PLII is the only choice I have. I will modify that passage to suggest HDMI3 for hardware configurations that support a full 7.1 connection.

And regarding the RTA procedure, I'll review that section to see if I can make it a bit more clear.

Thanks for taking the time to review the updated section, and for the valued feedback.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #11295 of 11297 Old Today, 12:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 5,075
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Liked: 232
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The REW Guide has been updated.

Version 3.8 August 29,2014 - Added section “Using REW to Set or Measure Speaker Levels”
Jerry, just a minor suggestion for improvement. When you talk about level calibration signals you should add RMS, e.g. -30dB FS RMS. The signal itself "wiggles" around that value.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #11296 of 11297 Old Today, 05:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 7,126
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked: 693
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Jerry, just a minor suggestion for improvement. When you talk about level calibration signals you should add RMS, e.g. -30dB FS RMS. The signal itself "wiggles" around that value.
Yes, I know what you mean, and that is a good suggestion. I'll make that change. Thanks for reviewing the new section.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #11297 of 11297 Old Today, 07:01 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,341
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 87 Post(s)
Liked: 80
Jerry, were you able to get those different sweep length graphs displayed properly? Outcome?

My Room
http://www.gearslutz.com/board/studio-building-acoustics/817205-my-listening-room.html

My Music
http://rateyourmusic.com/~jim1961

My Equipment

Rega - Apollo
Rega - DAC
Goldpoint Passive
(2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next ( http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Jenzen-NEXT.htm )
...
jim19611961 is online now  
Reply Audio theory, Setup and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off