Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 390 - AVS Forum
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post #11671 of 11696 Old 09-17-2014, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
I would say there is pudgy, fat and obese. Slightly pudgy, if in the lowest registers, I could see as nice. Obese up to 200hz, that wouldn't be so good, no
Mine was going for Sta Puf covered with fuzz, I think.
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post #11672 of 11696 Old 09-18-2014, 07:16 PM
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To those that have used REW, is it worth the time, effort and investment to get the $95 mic and spend time learning the software? Or is using the receivers built in calibration tools (MCACC, Audyssey, etc) + SPL meter + some manual fine tuning a better route. I've been reading about it for the past day and it seems easy and complicated at the same time and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort and hours spent configuring everything.

Will you hear the difference between either way?

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post #11673 of 11696 Old 09-18-2014, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
+ SPL meter + some manual fine tuning
Basically, this is what REW allows you to do, only accurately.
You can get as serious with REW as you like. If you "just" want to get a flat frequency response curve, okay, aim for that. If you get interested and want to pursue decay rates and the like, you can, but you don't "have" to.
It's just another aspect of the hobby. I have a meter and I calibrate my video. I have a mic and I calibrate my audio. Most of the time, it's fun. It's always interesting. And the result is that I'm getting the best performance possible out of the equipment that I have, modest though it may be.
For the $100, you may as well try it and see if it strikes your fancy. I'm sure you can sell the mic if you decide that it's really not for you.
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post #11674 of 11696 Old 09-18-2014, 07:26 PM
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For those wondering, Soundflower is still required on a Mac if one wants to send output to particular channels in a surround setup. Finally got it all working and it's SO MUCH easier than removing patch cords etc!

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post #11675 of 11696 Old 09-18-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Basically, this is what REW allows you to do, only accurately.
You can get as serious with REW as you like. If you "just" want to get a flat frequency response curve, okay, aim for that. If you get interested and want to pursue decay rates and the like, you can, but you don't "have" to.
It's just another aspect of the hobby. I have a meter and I calibrate my video. I have a mic and I calibrate my audio. Most of the time, it's fun. It's always interesting. And the result is that I'm getting the best performance possible out of the equipment that I have, modest though it may be.
For the $100, you may as well try it and see if it strikes your fancy. I'm sure you can sell the mic if you decide that it's really not for you.
Thanks, I'll give it a shot. Noticed that Cross Spectrum is out of the UMIK-1's right now though.

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post #11676 of 11696 Old 09-18-2014, 08:13 PM
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Here's the other one that's popular:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...phone--390-808
They even give you 45 days to play with it.
Hint: google for a coupon code.

Michael

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post #11677 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 03:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
To those that have used REW, is it worth the time, effort and investment to get the $95 mic and spend time learning the software? Or is using the receivers built in calibration tools (MCACC, Audyssey, etc) + SPL meter + some manual fine tuning a better route. I've been reading about it for the past day and it seems easy and complicated at the same time and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort and hours spent configuring everything.

Will you hear the difference between either way?
Using REW and using AVR calibration tools are entirely different things. Every listening room has audio characteristics that affect audio quality. The placement of your speakers, and the amount of room treatments can correct for audio issues. REW is a tool to assess the audio quality and assist you in determining whether adjustments in speaker placement and treatments are resulting in improvements.

Any thing you do to get your listening room in the best audio shape before you run automated room correction, the better the correction results will be. But REW room-tuning does not REPLACE room correction. If you have automated room correction, you should still use it, because it is the "icing on the cake" that corrects other audio issues that cannot be fixed with speaker placement and treatments.

So, long answer, but the proper approach is to use both, because they compliment each other.

Edit: I should add that using both REW and automated calibration together always results in a better solution. Unless you have an exceptionally good listening room, automated calibration by itself rarely corrects all the audio issues.
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Last edited by AustinJerry; Yesterday at 03:54 AM.
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post #11678 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Here's the other one that's popular:
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-...phone--390-808
They even give you 45 days to play with it.
Hint: google for a coupon code.

Michael
It has been discussed many times in this thread--there are advantages to ordering the mic from Cross Spectrum Labs because you receive customized calibration files with your purchase. The price difference is not significant. Either the UMM-6 or the UMIK-1 microphones are functionally equivalent.

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post #11679 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 06:21 AM
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Right. And he can't get the UMIK and the UMM can be returned within 45 days.
Also, the calibration files from Dayton have been shown to be perfectly adequate for the beginning hobbyist.
So he can get his hands on one now, give it a try, and see if he wants to keep it or get a calibrated UMIK eventually.
I, personally, am not especially good at waiting.
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post #11680 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 06:44 AM
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He could also send the mic from Dayton (or anywhere else) to Herb at CSL for calibration if availability is an issue.
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post #11681 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarmongerX View Post
To those that have used REW, is it worth the time, effort and investment to get the $95 mic and spend time learning the software? Or is using the receivers built in calibration tools (MCACC, Audyssey, etc) + SPL meter + some manual fine tuning a better route. I've been reading about it for the past day and it seems easy and complicated at the same time and I'm wondering if it's worth the effort and hours spent configuring everything.

Will you hear the difference between either way?
I find it fascinating. I was drawn to REW because I didn't like the sound of my room and my new subwoofer purchase. REW let me see exactly what was happening in my room and helped me fix (or greatly address) the issues.

Everyone's hearing is unique. My wife doesn't hear a difference and couldn't care less. I am much happier. Just be aware that depending on your personality, you can very easily get hooked on using REW and fiddling with your stereo more than using it. If I'd never gone down this rabbit hole I probably wouldn't be contemplating purchasing 3 more subwoofers!
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post #11682 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 07:28 AM
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That would no longer be cost-effective (see, I'm not only impatient, but cheap, too. ).

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post #11683 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warmongerx View Post
to those that have used rew, is it worth the time, effort and investment to get the $95 mic and spend time learning the software? or is using the receivers built in calibration tools (mcacc, audyssey, etc) + spl meter + some manual fine tuning a better route. I've been reading about it for the past day and it seems easy and complicated at the same time and i'm wondering if it's worth the effort and hours spent configuring everything.

Will you hear the difference between either way?
yes!!

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post #11684 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Right. And he can't get the UMIK and the UMM can be returned within 45 days.
Also, the calibration files from Dayton have been shown to be perfectly adequate for the beginning hobbyist.
So he can get his hands on one now, give it a try, and see if he wants to keep it or get a calibrated UMIK eventually.
I, personally, am not especially good at waiting.
Michael
Dayton's calibration is fine these days, yes, for a single mic position.

Cross Spectrum measures at multiple angles, which is a time saver if you want to measure many different speakers without moving the mic each time.

--

Heck I was surprised how close the mic was to linear WITHOUT the Cross Spectrum file. Certainly close enough that any obvious problems were still obvious!

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post #11685 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 08:45 AM
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Is the goal here to match the flat black line it give you?

I have been playing with it for several hours now and this is much better looking than it was before

Its just one sub. i tried doing multiples at once and it was a total mess.
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Originally Posted by HDgaming42 View Post
I find it fascinating. I was drawn to REW because I didn't like the sound of my room and my new subwoofer purchase. REW let me see exactly what was happening in my room and helped me fix (or greatly address) the issues.

Everyone's hearing is unique. My wife doesn't hear a difference and couldn't care less. I am much happier. Just be aware that depending on your personality, you can very easily get hooked on using REW and fiddling with your stereo more than using it. If I'd never gone down this rabbit hole I probably wouldn't be contemplating purchasing 3 more subwoofers!
LOL!

Thanks for the all the replies everyone. I will get one and spend the time learning and playing with it. Like most of you , I love to tinker around and am very picky about sound and video of my home theater, so this is probably naturally right up my alley. I will be replacing my entire front soundstage, including sub, in the next six months, so this appears it will be a valuable tool in getting the best sound out my new purchases.

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post #11687 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Cross Spectrum measures at multiple angles, which is a time saver if you want to measure many different speakers without moving the mic each time.

What the heck does this mean, Nathan?

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post #11688 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 12:28 PM
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What the heck does this mean, Nathan?
Cryptic, yes! Let me explain what I meant (hopefully better) based on my understanding:

Cross spectrum does measurements at zero degrees and 90 degrees (and others). Most companies just do the zero degree measurement.

The difference: When measured at zero degrees, you have to point the mic at each speaker you are measuring. When measured at 90 degrees, you can point the mic at the ceiling, and measure any speaker that is at 90 degrees to the mic (typically all speakers in the room) without moving the mic.

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post #11689 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan_h View Post
Cryptic, yes! Let me explain what I meant (hopefully better) based on my understanding:

Cross spectrum does measurements at zero degrees and 90 degrees (and others). Most companies just do the zero degree measurement.

The difference: When measured at zero degrees, you have to point the mic at each speaker you are measuring. When measured at 90 degrees, you can point the mic at the ceiling, and measure any speaker that is at 90 degrees to the mic (typically all speakers in the room) without moving the mic.
You are correct that the proper measurement technique is to use the 90-degree calibration file, point the mic at the ceiling, and measure the speakers from the MLP. However, just because you don't have a 90-degree calibration file doesn't mean you should point the mic at the speaker for a measurement. Just use the zero-degree calibration file, but continue pointing the mic at the ceiling. There is a link in the Guide that shows the very minor difference at the extreme high end that is a result of using the zero-degree calibration file--it is not very significant.

The only time you would point the mic directly at a speaker is when you are taking a near-field measurement to assess a speaker's frequency response independent of room effects, or to measure a speaker's dispersion characteristics.
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post #11690 of 11696 Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You are correct that the proper measurement technique is to use the 90-degree calibration file, point the mic at the ceiling, and measure the speakers from the MLP. However, just because you don't have a 90-degree calibration file doesn't mean you should point the mic at the speaker for a measurement. Just use the zero-degree calibration file, but continue pointing the mic at the ceiling. There is a link in the Guide that shows the very minor difference at the extreme high end that is a result of using the zero-degree calibration file--it is not very significant.

The only time you would point the mic directly at a speaker is when you are taking a near-field measurement to assess a speaker's frequency response independent of room effects, or to measure a speaker's dispersion characteristics.
Thank you Jerry for this information, it is very helpful as I have the UMIK-1 from miniDSP and was concerned about the mic orientation as the mini cal file is only 0-degree. I still haven't taken a measurement yet as I was very concerned about the mic orientation (that's not the only reason), I was ready to buy an additional mic from CS just for the 90-degree cal file. Thank you again for the excellent guide as well.
Best Regards, Jeffrey

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post #11691 of 11696 Old Today, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You are correct that the proper measurement technique is to use the 90-degree calibration file, point the mic at the ceiling, and measure the speakers from the MLP. However, just because you don't have a 90-degree calibration file doesn't mean you should point the mic at the speaker for a measurement. Just use the zero-degree calibration file, but continue pointing the mic at the ceiling. There is a link in the Guide that shows the very minor difference at the extreme high end that is a result of using the zero-degree calibration file--it is not very significant.

The only time you would point the mic directly at a speaker is when you are taking a near-field measurement to assess a speaker's frequency response independent of room effects, or to measure a speaker's dispersion characteristics.
For what its worth, I did a quick test comparing the FR with my mic pointed at the speaker vs pointed at the ceiling yielded the following:

<2k: no difference
2k - 5k: 1db
5k-10k: 2db
15k: 3.5db
20k: 5db
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Did you maintain the same position in space for the microphone element, or just rotate it up?

I'll be back later...



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Ray, regardless of what Jim said, the recommended orientation of the mic during measurements is pointed at the ceiling. There is no need to introduce any confusion by exploring pointing the mic differently. I don't think that was Jim's intent.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lemonslush View Post
Is the goal here to match the flat black line it give you?
No. You're in the SPL & Phase tab. The black line is the correction curve for your mic. You would want to click the EQ icon to access the tool for matching a certain curve.

Please read the guide at
Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs

This will save you a lot of time.

Markus

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post #11695 of 11696 Old Today, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You are correct that the proper measurement technique is to use the 90-degree calibration file, point the mic at the ceiling, and measure the speakers from the MLP. However, just because you don't have a 90-degree calibration file doesn't mean you should point the mic at the speaker for a measurement. Just use the zero-degree calibration file, but continue pointing the mic at the ceiling. There is a link in the Guide that shows the very minor difference at the extreme high end that is a result of using the zero-degree calibration file--it is not very significant.

The only time you would point the mic directly at a speaker is when you are taking a near-field measurement to assess a speaker's frequency response independent of room effects, or to measure a speaker's dispersion characteristics.
Excellent. Thanks for helping me learn something new.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RayDunzl View Post
Did you maintain the same position in space for the microphone element, or just rotate it up?
The tip of the mic was in the same place.


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