Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 391 - AVS Forum
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post #11701 of 12021 Old 09-21-2014, 10:33 AM
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Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post
The cal file is irrelevant since I am looking for the relative difference between 0 and 90 degrees.
What is interesting is how much the room contributes compared to the direct sound from the speakers.
What I meant was that I used the same cal file for both orientations, and therefore the difference I saw was accurate. If I had used a different cal file for each, then they would not. That is the relevance.

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post #11702 of 12021 Old 09-21-2014, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by jjazdk View Post
The cal file is irrelevant since I am looking for the relative difference between 0 and 90 degrees.
What is interesting is how much the room contributes compared to the direct sound from the speakers.
Is there a question there? Did you look at the analysis here: Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs
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post #11703 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 11:22 AM
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Asio set up issue

Jerry,
Thanks for the excellent guide. I am brand new to this REW thing, very cool by the way.
Asio is not outputting a generator signal, I have tried the trouble shooting tips in the quide. Have any other tricks I could try?
A Java set up works for me, I'm not smart enough to change speakers with it though.
Could you recommend any links / posts. I apologise in advance for any thing stupid or easy I missing.
US newby's gotta get annoying busting into some very interesting discussion on this form.

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post #11704 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 12:18 PM
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Hi Marv, thanks for the kind words. Regarding getting a stubborn ASIO driver to work properly, I don't have any suggestions other than what is in the Guide. Uninstall, re-install, re-boot, pray to the Gods. It is beta software, with little or no support. What is your laptop configuration--HDMI? Windows, and what version?

If the Java driver works, then you can be completely functional. The Guide explains how to select the left, right, left+right, and center speakers by simply altering the Y-cable connection to the AVR. Give it a try, and don't be reluctant to ask questions here.
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post #11705 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Hi Marv, thanks for the kind words. Regarding getting a stubborn ASIO driver to work properly, I don't have any suggestions other than what is in the Guide. Uninstall, re-install, re-boot, pray to the Gods. It is beta software, with little or no support. What is your laptop configuration--HDMI? Windows, and what version?

If the Java driver works, then you can be completely functional. The Guide explains how to select the left, right, left+right, and center speakers by simply altering the Y-cable connection to the AVR. Give it a try, and don't be reluctant to ask questions here.

HI Jerry,
I will do the re install ADIO thing next.
I am using a windows 7 and HDMI connection. Is it possible to run Java on an HDMI set up?
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post #11706 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 01:17 PM
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No, with the Java driver, you would use a 3.5mm stereo cable from the headphone output Jack into the front-panel AUX IN RCA jacks on the AVR. It is explained in the Guide.
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post #11707 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
No, with the Java driver, you would use a 3.5mm stereo cable from the headphone output Jack into the front-panel AUX IN RCA jacks on the AVR. It is explained in the Guide.

Thanks Jerry, pretty much what I thought. Back to the drawing board then.
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post #11708 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 03:24 PM
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Semi-quick question for the REW experts:

I notice from reading on the mini-DSP site that REW has the ability to output an automatic equalization for the sub. Since I have a Yamaha receiver with an admittedly limited PEQ, could I not use the suggested adjustments made by REW to manually adjust my subwoofer EQ? Obviously I won't be able to export the settings and import them into the Yamaha PEQ, but I'm thinking I should be able to note the suggested settings and make them manually in the PEQ.

Thoughts?

Mike
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post #11709 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67 View Post
Semi-quick question for the REW experts:

I notice from reading on the mini-DSP site that REW has the ability to output an automatic equalization for the sub. Since I have a Yamaha receiver with an admittedly limited PEQ, could I not use the suggested adjustments made by REW to manually adjust my subwoofer EQ? Obviously I won't be able to export the settings and import them into the Yamaha PEQ, but I'm thinking I should be able to note the suggested settings and make them manually in the PEQ.

Thoughts?

Mike
Yes you can. Just use the generic EQ setting in REW. That what I do with the XMC-1 which has a robust PEQ.
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post #11710 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 03:45 PM
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Yes you can. Just use the generic EQ setting in REW. That what I do with the XMC-1 which has a robust PEQ.
Many thanks Bluescale!
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post #11711 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 04:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjmcmahon67 View Post
Semi-quick question for the REW experts:

I notice from reading on the mini-DSP site that REW has the ability to output an automatic equalization for the sub. Since I have a Yamaha receiver with an admittedly limited PEQ, could I not use the suggested adjustments made by REW to manually adjust my subwoofer EQ? Obviously I won't be able to export the settings and import them into the Yamaha PEQ, but I'm thinking I should be able to note the suggested settings and make them manually in the PEQ.

Thoughts?

Mike
I purchased a MiniDSP to experiment with the REW automated EQ capability. It actually works quite well, and is easy to learn. I encourage you to try it. If you are using REW to measure your system, we would be interested in seeing your before and after measurements here. Good luck!

Edit: I also use Audyssey XT32 to calibrate my four subs. After quite a bit of experimentation, I decided the best approach for using the MiniDSP was to apply correction after Audyssey, rather than before it. So, I took my post-calibration bass measurements and fed them to the REW EQ tool, and REW said no filters were created, i.e. no additional correction was required! That made me feel good, and I now have a MiniDSP sitting unused on the shelf.

Last edited by AustinJerry; 09-22-2014 at 05:00 PM.
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post #11712 of 12021 Old 09-22-2014, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I purchased a MiniDSP to experiment with the REW automated EQ capability. It actually works quite well, and is easy to learn. I encourage you to try it. If you are using REW to measure your system, we would be interested in seeing your before and after measurements here. Good luck!

Edit: I also use Audyssey XT32 to calibrate my four subs. After quite a bit of experimentation, I decided the best approach for using the MiniDSP was to apply correction after Audyssey, rather than before it. So, I took my post-calibration bass measurements and fed them to the REW EQ tool, and REW said no filters were created, i.e. no additional correction was required! That made me feel good, and I now have a MiniDSP sitting unused on the shelf.

Thanks AustinJerry!

I've currently got just one sub and my response is pretty good as-is. I took the leap and ordered a UMIK from Power Sound Audio tonight and will have it Friday. I'll run YPAO on Friday and then dive into REW. I'll post before and after pics of response curves (YPAO PEQ) once I'm done. I considered mini-DSP, but I don't think it's likely needed for a single sub.
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post #11713 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 04:41 AM
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My apology. When I quickly read your original post, I mistakenly concluded that you had purchased a MiniDSP. Whether you can manually load the corrections into your sub, I don't know, but it is certainly worth a try. If it doesn't work, the MiniDSP is a relatively inexpensive device, and works quite well.
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post #11714 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
My apology. When I quickly read your original post, I mistakenly concluded that you had purchased a MiniDSP. Whether you can manually load the corrections into your sub, I don't know, but it is certainly worth a try. If it doesn't work, the MiniDSP is a relatively inexpensive device, and works quite well.
AustinJerry -

Thankfully, the Yamaha receiver's PEQ does allow quite a bit of flexibility for customization, albeit only down to 31Hz and with 4 adjustments for the sub. I've got it sounding pretty good at this point, but I'm looking forward to seeing what I can do with REW! If I get frustrated by Yamaha's limitations, I may want to talk to you about buying the mini-DSP.

Mike
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post #11715 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 07:50 AM
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Hi guys a little help needed...measurements are taken with audyssey mic...is it wort keeping both the sb13ultra and sb12NSD or just the sb13ultra? I have taken a picture of both measurements...the purple measurement is just the ultra in my room calibrated by audyssey and sub is set 5db hot (just audyssey no dyn EQ), the blue one are both combined but i have put the distance of the sb13ultra to 1,88m (from 4,38) and put PEQ on ultra on -8db at 35hz freq...that was the best i could get on both subs...if i leave it at audyssey there is a big null at 23-30 hz and around 75hz...so question is would you guys have both subs or just an ultra (my room is around 1600 cubic feet)? the gain of leaving them both seems reasonable or is it? thanks for helping me out
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post #11716 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 08:18 AM
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With the exception of that narrow issue at 70-75Hz, the SB13Ultra by itself seems to produce the smoothest response. May we assume you have experimented with a number of different positions and what you are showing is the best you could achieve?

Edit: The deep dip at 70 Hz is so narrow it is likely not audible. The peak just to the right shows up on both measurements, so regardless of which configuration you choose, you should try to resolve that issue.
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post #11717 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
With the exception of that narrow issue at 70-75Hz, the SB13Ultra by itself seems to produce the smoothest response. May we assume you have experimented with a number of different positions and what you are showing is the best you could achieve?

Edit: The deep dip at 70 Hz is so narrow it is likely not audible. The peak just to the right shows up on both measurements, so regardless of which configuration you choose, you should try to resolve that issue.
I dont have many position options...they are both at front (sb13ultra on the right side and sb12nsd on the left)...at SVS they told me that the drivers of both have different phase response so i can expect some nuls so that is why i have those two big dips if i leave it at audyssey calibration (that is also why i have to lower the sb13ultra level for -8 db at 35 hz, so that the sb12 gained in level and the dip came up)...and yes this is the best i could get from both of them...i am on the fence...my brother would like to get the 2nd sb12 from me but i just aint sure because if i look at the gains when both are playing they are pretty big especially in the lowest freq...oh man...cant decide what to do...but those dips playing both arent that awful are they? I would not buy a 2nd ultra at least for now because it is too expensive here in europe so what to do?
And i cant get those levels at 70-80 hz up no mather what i do...even the peq2 on ultra doesent help neither plus neither minus levels, have tried so many things but it just stays there...it is just worse...

Last edited by tommaazz; 09-23-2014 at 09:35 AM.
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post #11718 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 10:13 AM
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Have you tried adjusting the phase of one of the subs?
Or both, if the issue is how they blend with the mains?
Not that I'm trying to twist your arm to keep both subs.

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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #11719 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 10:38 AM
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Have you tried adjusting the phase of one of the subs?
Or both, if the issue is how they blend with the mains?
Not that I'm trying to twist your arm to keep both subs.
Thanks fo the suggestion but the phase does not help (just with tweaking the distance on the sb12 i could get rid of the dip in the 30 hz range)...see attachment below...this is what i get using both and audyssey...the green is the best i could get (distance tweak, and PEQ -8 on sb13ultra) but i get the feeling i am cripling the ultra in 35 hz range because of the trim -8 db i have to apply to get better graph...damn this rew thing is so contageous
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post #11720 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 10:44 AM
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Actually, the purple probably sounds better. That dip around 27Hz is probably only audible during sweeps.
Since the subs are sealed, how about a boost at 20Hz ("house curve")?

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post #11721 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 10:54 AM
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Actually, the purple probably sounds better. That dip around 27Hz is probably only audible during sweeps.
Since the subs are sealed, how about a boost at 20Hz ("house curve")?
Ammmm now i am lost sorry what does that mean (boost at 20hz -house curve) ? To me the green sounds better as i can feel it more and it is like a free lunch...just some playing around
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post #11722 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:02 AM
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You can feel it more because the 25Hz is too strong.
A "house curve" typically ends up being a smooth slope downward from your low end to the crossover point, raising the deep bass 5 to 10dB at the low end.
Do that to the purple line and I think you'll be very happy.
I'm no expert at such things, but, perhaps PEQ 20Hz +6dB Q=0.1?
Michael

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post #11723 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
Thanks fo the suggestion but the phase does not help (just with tweaking the distance on the sb12 i could get rid of the dip in the 30 hz range)...see attachment below...this is what i get using both and audyssey...the green is the best i could get (distance tweak, and PEQ -8 on sb13ultra) but i get the feeling i am cripling the ultra in 35 hz range because of the trim -8 db i have to apply to get better graph...damn this rew thing is so contageous
As I've told you before Tommaazz;

- You can not trust the measurements you are getting with the Audyssey mic
- Obviously, with both subs playing you are getting some sort of cancellation (hence the -8 PEQ actually helps the response)

Did you follow the sub distance tweak to the letter?

Did you remove the -8db PEQ on the Ultra before performing the sub distance tweak?

Did you make sure both subs were in phase before performing the sub distance tweak?

You are only adjusting distance for one sub, correct?
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post #11724 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:43 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You can feel it more because the 25Hz is too strong.
A "house curve" typically ends up being a smooth slope downward from your low end to the crossover point, raising the deep bass 5 to 10dB at the low end.
Do that to the purple line and I think you'll be very happy.
I'm no expert at such things, but, perhaps PEQ 20Hz +6dB Q=0.1?
Michael
Well i cant bring a low end up...just for a 3dbs and max at 31 hz...but can bring a bump in the 20-30hz down...this are the final graphs...i have to oversleep and tomorrow i will test it again with some demos and see what will i do...purple line audyssey with both subs...yellow line audyssey with both subs PEQ at 35hz -8db (on sb13 ultra) and lowered distance on sb13 to 1,88m (from 4,38m)...green line just the sb13 ultra calibrated by audyssey...i can see the benefits of keeping both in a boost that i get but only ultra can get my flatter response...damn rew
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post #11725 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:48 AM
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Green is the one I would go with.
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post #11726 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
As I've told you before Tommaazz;

- You can not trust the measurements you are getting with the Audyssey mic
- Obviously, with both subs playing you are getting some sort of cancellation (hence the -8 PEQ actually helps the response)

Did you follow the sub distance tweak to the letter?

Did you remove the -8db PEQ on the Ultra before performing the sub distance tweak?

Did you make sure both subs were in phase before performing the sub distance tweak?

You are only adjusting distance for one sub, correct?
by sub distance tweak i just meant lowering the audyssey calibrated distances...not the actual distance tweak. and yes i am adjusting distance just for one sub...well tomorrow i will decide...so far i am leaning towards keeping both...cant hurt the boost i get with both
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post #11727 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by tommaazz View Post
Well i cant bring a low end up...just for a 3dbs and max at 31 hz...but can bring a bump in the 20-30hz down...this are the final graphs...i have to oversleep and tomorrow i will test it again with some demos and see what will i do...purple line audyssey with both subs...yellow line audyssey with both subs PEQ at 35hz -8db (on sb13 ultra) and lowered distance on sb13 to 1,88m (from 4,38m)...green line just the sb13 ultra calibrated by audyssey...i can see the benefits of keeping both in a boost that i get but only ultra can get my flatter response...damn rew
Please buy a USB microphone - we'll all be better off. Either that, or start a "REW + Whatever Random Microphone I Happen To Have Laying Around" thread. Seriously, you've spent thousands on those subs, and you've learned the basics of REW, it's time to stop guessing and invest in a piece of equipment you can trust (it's a bargain).
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post #11728 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Green is the one I would go with.
Well i was affraid you will said that ... i know just the ultra plays very well and aslo shakes more than enough but when i look at the graphs i just cant get ovet those boost i get with both and that is what is bothering my mind ... i have said before that now i will just enyoj the system but today i had a time and i have disconected the sb12 and calibrated with ultra so here i am again damn...
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post #11729 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:58 AM
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Green is the one I would go with.
+1. While the Audyssey mic may not provide absolute accuracy, it is probably reasonably useful to compare different measurements. Especially in the absence of a calibrated USB mic, it is better than using the internal laptop mic.
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post #11730 of 12021 Old 09-23-2014, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by spotts29 View Post
Please buy a USB microphone - we'll all be better off. Either that, or start a "REW + Whatever Random Microphone I Happen To Have Laying Around" thread. Seriously, you've spent thousands on those subs, and you've learned the basics of REW, it's time to stop guessing and invest in a piece of equipment you can trust (it's a bargain).
i like that but the rew is just so contageous that i have a feeling that until i will delete it from my comp i wont enyoj my system if i buy the proper mic then i will be screwing all over again and again not enyojing the system...one question...can you damage the speaker with continuous use of rew measurements, a few hours?
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