Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 407 - AVS Forum
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post #12181 of 12208 Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
It depends on what you're trying to achieve. I believe the consensus on this thread is to measure and tweak subs etc with it off. That way Audyssey has a good starting point to work with.

On the other hand, if you just want feedback from the thread participants with it on then that's fine as well.

Just remember to read AustinJerry's guide before doing anything.
Okay that makes sense. Thanks artur9!
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post #12182 of 12208 Old Yesterday, 04:24 PM
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If you turn off Audyssey, it should turn off Dyn EQ & Vol as well. There are some AVRs that allow you to use Dyn EQ & Vol without Audyssey, and yours may be one.

BTW, you should never use Dyn Vol for any critical music listening or movies (unless it's late at night and your trying not to wake the wife/kids).
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post #12183 of 12208 Old Yesterday, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
On the preferences screen, go to the "Timing Reference Output" box on the right, and if HDMI Out 1 is configured as the normal output, select HDMI Out 2 in the timing reference drop-down. This will output a signal to both the left and the right channels simultaneously. Then, when you are in PLII Cinema mode, since the left and right channels have the same signal, they will be combined and output to the center channel, allowing you to take a measurement of that channel.
Thank you very much Jerry.
I will try that out tonight. I also have few more related questions.

1. I believe when "Use subwoofer to check/set levels" is elected in preferences, it will later do sub only measurement.
2. When I do just Left or Right front speaker, should I set those speakers to Full band in the AVR (or leave them at 80 Hz crossover)?
3. When I do Left (or Right or Center) + Sub, what should I select in preferences (Use subwoofer or use Main speaker) to check/set levels ? At this time should I set the Fronts or Center to 80 Hz?

Thanks again for your help and time..
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post #12184 of 12208 Old Today, 12:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thank you very much Jerry.
I will try that out tonight. I also have few more related questions.

1. I believe when "Use subwoofer to check/set levels" is elected in preferences, it will later do sub only measurement.
2. When I do just Left or Right front speaker, should I set those speakers to Full band in the AVR (or leave them at 80 Hz crossover)?
3. When I do Left (or Right or Center) + Sub, what should I select in preferences (Use subwoofer or use Main speaker) to check/set levels ? At this time should I set the Fronts or Center to 80 Hz?

Thanks again for your help and time..
The "use xxx to set levels" option just determines what bandwidth of pink noise is used for the signal, IIRC it is 500-2000Hz for the mains and 30-80Hz for the sub. It doesn't change your actual measurements at all. The level check itself is just to help confirm you have input levels set correctly so you don't need to repeat it.

You would set them to large if you want to see their full range response, for example if you are trying to work out which crossover frequency to use.
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post #12185 of 12208 Old Today, 06:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
The "use xxx to set levels" option just determines what bandwidth of pink noise is used for the signal, IIRC it is 500-2000Hz for the mains and 30-80Hz for the sub. It doesn't change your actual measurements at all. The level check itself is just to help confirm you have input levels set correctly so you don't need to repeat it.

You would set them to large if you want to see their full range response, for example if you are trying to work out which crossover frequency to use.
Thanks.
I still am bit confused about measuring sub only or mixing it with L,R and C.
In other words, What all I need to do to send the signal to sub woofer only using HDMI (when your HDMI supports only 2 channel audio)
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post #12186 of 12208 Old Today, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks.
I still am bit confused about measuring sub only or mixing it with L,R and C.
In other words, What all I need to do to send the signal to sub woofer only using HDMI (when your HDMI supports only 2 channel audio)
you can either raise the crossover as high as possible and use the L or R channel (with the L or R set to small) or, if you use a separate power amp, you can change preout connections
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post #12187 of 12208 Old Today, 08:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thanks.
I still am bit confused about measuring sub only or mixing it with L,R and C.
In other words, What all I need to do to send the signal to sub woofer only using HDMI (when your HDMI supports only 2 channel audio)
If I could augment d00d's feedback a bit. When you are doing your measurements, there are several objectives.

Objective 1-Use REW to assess the performance of the subs by themselves, which includes moving the subs around to find the best placement. To configure REW for this objective, you need to turn off the main speakers (either by carefully disconnecting their cables, or by turning off your separate power amp, if you use one). Feed the AVR with a signal on both the left and right channels (HDMI 1and 2), and set the AVR to stereo mode. Run sweeps 15-300Hz, and present the results without any smoothing.

Objective 2-Assess overall bass performance, which will include the contributions of the left and right speakers, as well as the center. For these measurements, turn the left and right speakers back on, set the crossover to the normal value (say 80Hz), and take four measurements:

- With the AVR in stereo mode, feed the left channel (HDMI 1 in REW) and measure 15-300Hz. Present the results with no smoothing.

- Repeat for the right channel (HDMI 2 in REW).

- Feed the left and right channels simultaneously, and repeat the measurement a third time (measuring left and right channels)

- And finally, keeping both channels active in REW, change the AVR to PLII Cinema, which allows you to measure the center channel.

These four measurements will give you good insight into how the bass region is performing in your room with your equipment.

You can also run full sweeps 15-20,000 Hz for the left, right and center channel to see how the whole spectrum is being reproduced. These measurements should have smoothing applied (anywhere from 1/24 to 1/6, depending on who you talk to).
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post #12188 of 12208 Old Today, 08:36 AM
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In addition to what Jerry wrote above, if you're interested in checking how the XO recommended by the AVR looks in your room then you would want to measure the L, C and R separately as full band (large) with the sub turned off and overlay these measurements with the sub(s) response taken with the XO set as high as possible and the LCR either disconnected or separate amps turned off.
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post #12189 of 12208 Old Today, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
If I could augment d00d's feedback a bit. When you are doing your measurements, there are several objectives.

Objective 1-Use REW to assess the performance of the subs by themselves, which includes moving the subs around to find the best placement. To configure REW for this objective, you need to turn off the main speakers (either by carefully disconnecting their cables, or by turning off your separate power amp, if you use one). Feed the AVR with a signal on both the left and right channels (HDMI 1and 2), and set the AVR to stereo mode. Run sweeps 15-300Hz, and present the results without any smoothing.

Objective 2-Assess overall bass performance, which will include the contributions of the left and right speakers, as well as the center. For these measurements, turn the left and right speakers back on, set the crossover to the normal value (say 80Hz), and take four measurements:

- With the AVR in stereo mode, feed the left channel (HDMI 1 in REW) and measure 15-300Hz. Present the results with no smoothing.

- Repeat for the right channel (HDMI 2 in REW).

- Feed the left and right channels simultaneously, and repeat the measurement a third time (measuring left and right channels)

- And finally, keeping both channels active in REW, change the AVR to PLII Cinema, which allows you to measure the center channel.

These four measurements will give you good insight into how the bass region is performing in your room with your equipment.

You can also run full sweeps 15-20,000 Hz for the left, right and center channel to see how the whole spectrum is being reproduced. These measurements should have smoothing applied (anywhere from 1/24 to 1/6, depending on who you talk to).
Thank you so very much Jerry.
This is the precise information I was looking for.
Looks like I have enough work during this weekend..
Once I get the feel of it, I guess I should plan to invest in the USB mic.
Right now I am using RS-SPL in place of mic.
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post #12190 of 12208 Old Today, 09:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
In addition to what Jerry wrote above, if you're interested in checking how the XO recommended by the AVR looks in your room then you would want to measure the L, C and R separately as full band (large) with the sub turned off and overlay these measurements with the sub(s) response taken with the XO set as high as possible and the LCR either disconnected or separate amps turned off.
Thanks.
This is really a valuable TIP.
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post #12191 of 12208 Old Today, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Thank you so very much Jerry.
This is the precise information I was looking for.
Looks like I have enough work during this weekend..
Once I get the feel of it, I guess I should plan to invest in the USB mic.
Right now I am using RS-SPL in place of mic.
Yes, get a USB mic for sure. Do you have the correct calibration file for the RS SPL meter??
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post #12192 of 12208 Old Today, 10:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Yes, get a USB mic for sure. Do you have the correct calibration file for the RS SPL meter??
We actually discussed this a couple of pages back, and the USB even with a calibration file is not showing to be that accurate. Good enough for ball-park measurements, and perfect for aaranddeeman to develop REW skills. But long-term I agree completely, a calibrated mic is a necessity for any serious analysis.
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post #12193 of 12208 Old Today, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Yes, get a USB mic for sure. Do you have the correct calibration file for the RS SPL meter??
Yes. I do have that file downloaded from a link at HS forum.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
We actually discussed this a couple of pages back, and the USB even with a calibration file is not showing to be that accurate. Good enough for ball-park measurements, and perfect for aaranddeeman to develop REW skills. But long-term I agree completely, a calibrated mic is a necessity for any serious analysis.
Ah. That sounds good. The RS-SPL will at least give me a fair idea of my situation.
In the mean time I will get the mic.
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post #12195 of 12208 Old Today, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by mlah384 View Post
I'm looking for the easiest and fastest way to be up and running with a mic and REW... Is the UMIK-1 still the best way to go for this? Or is the UMM-6 just as easy now? However, I think it's easier to get a UMM-6 faster than a UMIK-1?

Fastest REW Mic Setup with HDMI to AVR Multichannel (Windows laptop)...


1.) purchase UMIK-1 from Amazon, they now offer miniDSP products, I received my UMIK-1 within a week after ordering...
2.) after you receive your UMIK-1, go to the miniDSP website to download your mic calibration file ("UMIK-1#".txt)
3.) download ASIO4ALLv2 and install, REW recognizes the HDMI input audio source via ASIO4ALL
4.) attach a HDMI cable from your laptop to your AVR (aux, game, etc. HDMI input, be sure to set HDMI input on your AVR to "multichannel")
5.) attach the UMIK-1 to your mic stand/boom/tripod (I purchased the 1/4" female to 3/8" male tripod adapter) the UMIK-1 mic holder is 3/8" female
6.) place UMIK-1 in your main listening position at ear height, pointing straight up
7.) attach the UMIK-1 to your laptop via the provided USB A to USB mini-plug cord
8.) Windows OS recognizes the UMIK-1, no driver needed
9.) open REW, go to preferences to set up your input, outputs, levels, etc...there's plenty of info on the forums regarding REW preferences settings...

My list has some new stuff and some really, really old stuff...LOL

What I like (so far) is being able to play 2.1 / 5.1 multichannel lossless FLAC / WAV (PCM) music files from my wired NAS via the Oppo BDP-103 thru my Onkyo TX-NR 3009...nothing like listening to 96kHz / 24 bit lossless...
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post #12196 of 12208 Old Today, 04:22 PM
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Hi,
I need some help with diagnosing what is wrong with my REW set up. I am trying to take near field measurements of my PB13 ultra. The REW set up I have is the following:
  • UMIK-1 Mic from CossSpectrum
  • Using 0 deg narrow file that came with this for measurements.
  • Using MacBook Pro with Soundflower.
  • Selected HDMI-4 under Channel 1 to send signal to the Sub
  • Placed the Mic 1/2 an inch from the woofer right in the middle.
  • All these connected through HDMI through Marantz AV8801
  • Audyssey is turned off for all measurements. Also I actually switched all amps to ensure only the Sub is producing any sound.

With that set up I am getting the following response. As I understand I am supposed to get a much flatter response as the mic is pointing so close to the woofer and no room influence should come in play. But I do not get that. Did any one experience this type of behavior before and know what is wrong with it.

I am hoping it is not the equipments (mic or marantz). If it is some problem related to MacBook Pro set up using Soundflower then I guess I need to try with a Windows laptop. Anyway looking forward to all of your valuable inputs on this.

I just bought a MiniDSP 2X4 balanced dsp to EQ my two PB13s but without proper measurements I do not want to get in to that. Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated.

Thank you
-Sen
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post #12197 of 12208 Old Today, 04:34 PM
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Yes, that is a strange looking measurement for nearfield...hopefully someone smarter than me can come along and tell you what's going on.

BTW, why the nearfield measurements? Do you suspect there is something wrong with your sub??
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post #12198 of 12208 Old Today, 04:40 PM
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I agree-why are you measuring nearfield? BTW, nearfield placement is 6-12" from the dustcap, not extremely close. And that measurement does not look right at all.

To use REW to automatically create DSP filters for the MiniDSP, you should be measuring the combined response of both subs at the MLP, allowing REW to create the filters, and then download them to the MiniDSP, using the same filter for both subs.

As for potential issues with a Mac, sorry, I am a Windows guy and can offer no advice there.
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^^
Initially I approached Ed from SVS as my measurements with the ports plugged weren't giving me extension below 20 HZ. As part of it they suggested to take near field measurements and that is why I started taking it. Now it looks like my measuring set up could be a problem so until I get that resolved I am unable to do any other changes in the room (in terms of Audio). I think testing with near field until the problem is identified gives a more controlled environment than using the normal measurements. Hope I can get to the bottom of this without replacing the mic or the receiver .
-Sen
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post #12200 of 12208 Old Today, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I agree-why are you measuring nearfield? BTW, nearfield placement is 6-12" from the dustcap, not extremely close. And that measurement does not look right at all.

To use REW to automatically create DSP filters for the MiniDSP, you should be measuring the combined response of both subs at the MLP, allowing REW to create the filters, and then download them to the MiniDSP, using the same filter for both subs.

As for potential issues with a Mac, sorry, I am a Windows guy and can offer no advice there.
1/2in from the woofer was suggested by Ed so I followed that.

I do understand the generation of the DSP filters using REW (theoretically) but as I am now not sure about my measurements I am not at the stage of generating the filters yet. Hopefully if the problem is identified quickly then I can work on it soon.
-Sen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gskinusa View Post
^^
Initially I approached Ed from SVS as my measurements with the ports plugged weren't giving me extension below 20 HZ. As part of it they suggested to take near field measurements and that is why I started taking it. Now it looks like my measuring set up could be a problem so until I get that resolved I am unable to do any other changes in the room (in terms of Audio). I think testing with near field until the problem is identified gives a more controlled environment than using the normal measurements. Hope I can get to the bottom of this without replacing the mic or the receiver .
-Sen
remember that you're trying to measure a ported sub in the near field but that sub has multiple separate sources of output that have variable phase responses. Therefore I think you should expect, if you are truly near field to the driver, to see some sort of notch in the output as the driver hands over to the port(s) given that driver excursion is minimised when the port is at resonance.

A quick google gives examples like http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...t-three-page-6 which explains it in more detail.

Ultimately though if SVS are asking you to take measurements then it seems reasonable to go back to them and ask for guidance/clarification on exactly what they're looking for and where you should place the mic.

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post #12202 of 12208 Old Today, 04:52 PM
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You are correct--nearfield measurements are used to analyze whether a speaker is performing properly. For example, I had a faulty response in a speaker, and a nearfield measurement was useful in identifying whether the tweeter or the mid-range driver was at fault.

But for overall DSP to address room response issues, the nearfield measurement is not appropriate. I think you understand that. As for 1/2" or 6-12", I don't think this affects a nearfield measurement that much.
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post #12203 of 12208 Old Today, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
remember that you're trying to measure a ported sub in the near field but that sub has multiple separate sources of output that have variable phase responses.
This is a very good point d00d!
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
remember that you're trying to measure a ported sub in the near field but that sub has multiple separate sources of output that have variable phase responses. Therefore I think you should expect, if you are truly near field to the driver, to see some sort of notch in the output as the driver hands over to the port(s) given that driver excursion is minimised when the port is at resonance.

A quick google gives examples like http://www.stereophile.com/content/m...t-three-page-6 which explains it in more detail.

Ultimately though if SVS are asking you to take measurements then it seems reasonable to go back to them and ask for guidance/clarification on exactly what they're looking for and where you should place the mic.
Got it. Thanks. I did send the files but I do not think I asked them for a sample representation. I will ask. In the mean time a few more updates. I did perform measurements other than fully open. I took 1 port closed, 2 port closed and all 3 ports closed and with each port closed the extension supposed to go down but in my case either it stayed the same as the all ports open one or made it lot worse. Do you think that could also be attributed to the explanation you provided above?

Example of other measurements attached below.
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post #12205 of 12208 Old Today, 06:01 PM
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What about that 55dB dip around 60Hz? That would concern me as much as the bass extension.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What about that 55dB dip around 60Hz? That would concern me as much as the bass extension.
That is my concern as well. How near field measurement can introduce that kind of a dip.

As I still would be watching movies during the weekend, I took the measurement at the MLP and got the following measurement so for now I am ok but would really need to have this taken care.
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post #12207 of 12208 Old Today, 07:13 PM
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Still looks a bit strange. Here is what it should be similar to:

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post #12208 of 12208 Old Today, 08:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Still looks a bit strange. Here is what it should be similar to:
That's exactly I am thinking something is wrong in my REW set up.
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