Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 411 - AVS Forum
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post #12301 of 12330 Old 11-26-2014, 08:11 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
All righty..
Yes my AVR has Audyssey MultEQ XT
I will get to the next measurements tonight at some point.
Thank you for being patient with me.
Take your time. You should run the calibration before any more measurements. I assumed you have familiarized yourself with Audyssey best practices by reading the materials in the Audyssey thread. Following guidelines can make a difference between good and poor results.
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post #12302 of 12330 Old 11-26-2014, 09:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Take your time. You should run the calibration before any more measurements. I assumed you have familiarized yourself with Audyssey best practices by reading the materials in the Audyssey thread. Following guidelines can make a difference between good and poor results.
Oh. I already took the measurements. But anyways I can repeat both after calibration as well.
But check them out in the mean time.
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post #12303 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 06:20 AM
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Some pretty steep roll off above 6kHz?? What is the spec of your mains?

Just a tip on using REW, it's almost always better to take a full range measurement and restrict your graph limits when focusing on the bass region. This way when someone asks to see the full range, the measurement is already done. It wasn't clear from your post if that's what you did so disregard if that's the case.
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post #12304 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM
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3 questions please ...

Do I need a laptop for REW, or can I use my Mac Mini ( I assume I can't use an iPad ) ?

I have the REW program, AudysseyXT, and the 2 PEQs on my PC13Ultra sub ... is there a preferred order involved ?

I have a Radio shack SPL meter ... should I invest in a better devise ?

Thank you :-)

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post #12305 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM
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This thread is focused more on Windows devices, although several participants do use Mac's. You cannot use an iOS device. A SPL meter will provide crude measurements, but a USB mic is required for serious measurements. The REW guide has microphone recommendations. I don't understand your "preferred order" question.
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post #12306 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 11:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I don't understand your "preferred order" question.
Start with all eq off.
Play with your room, speaker placement, etc.
Then use the eq on the subs.
Then run Audyssey.
Repeat.
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post #12307 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Start with all eq off.
Play with your room, speaker placement, etc.
Then use the eq on the subs.
Then run Audyssey.
Repeat.
You would use peq after audyssey if you want to apply a house curve. They are not mutually exclusive either, you can do before and after if you like. Typical reason to eq before is to take down a big peak which then enables audyssey to focus filter resources on fine tuning.
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post #12308 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 12:52 PM
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Thank you Jerry and others for your help.
Now I guess I have fair understanding of how REW works.
I can start playing with it more and more.
Oh and also need to get the USB mic... That should bring in accuracy in the measurements...
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post #12309 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Some pretty steep roll off above 6kHz?? What is the spec of your mains?

Just a tip on using REW, it's almost always better to take a full range measurement and restrict your graph limits when focusing on the bass region. This way when someone asks to see the full range, the measurement is already done. It wasn't clear from your post if that's what you did so disregard if that's the case.
My mains are JBL Northridge E80
Good TIP on full measurement. I will remember when doing next round.
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post #12310 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 01:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Good TIP on full measurement. I will remember when doing next round.
you're using an RS SPL meter atm aren't you? if so there is no point measuring beyond ~2kHz, the mic in the meter is not remotely accurate beyond that point. This explains the apparent drastic rolloff in your full range measurements btw, it's just the mic. Generally speaking the RS SPL meter is perfectly fine for general purpose sub work, it increasingly rolls off below 30Hz but the generally available cal files get it into the ballpark. As long as you don't try to use it to shape <30Hz then you'll be ok.

If you want to do full range measurements then a proper mic is the cost of entry.
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post #12311 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 01:25 PM
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My mains are JBL Northridge E80
Good TIP on full measurement. I will remember when doing next round.
Well, I'm not sure how to explain it then as those speakers are rated +/- 3dB up to 20kHz. Your tweeter crossover is 4kHz and it's a pretty smooth roll off. Looks a bit like destructive interference when you measure the left and right together. Your sure both speakers weren't playing during measurement?
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post #12312 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Well, I'm not sure how to explain it then as those speakers are rated +/- 3dB up to 20kHz. Your tweeter crossover is 4kHz and it's a pretty smooth roll off. Looks a bit like destructive interference when you measure the left and right together. Your sure both speakers weren't playing during measurement?
You mean both playing even though I wanted to measure Left only and Right only?
I will recheck that..

Edit : Not sure if we should blame RS-SPL meter. My another set of measurements show the exact same roll off after 6K.

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post #12313 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 02:44 PM
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You mean both playing even though I wanted to measure Left only and Right only?
I will recheck that..

Edit : Not sure if we should blame RS-SPL meter. My another set of measurements show the exact same roll off after 6K.
Yes, on the first part. Sorry, I didn't realize you were using an RS-SPL as your mic. That's probably the issue.
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post #12314 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 03:17 PM
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Yes, on the first part. Sorry, I didn't realize you were using an RS-SPL as your mic. That's probably the issue.
Thanks. That's comforting...
I am trying to find the online retailer that has UMM-6 with 90 degree calibration available.
Can't seem to find it (I read somewhere @ AVS). Do you happen to have the link?
Really appreciate if you could post it.
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post #12315 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 03:30 PM
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Shame on you! That information is in the Guide, which you should have memorized by now.

Linky: http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...ated_umik.html
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post #12316 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 04:02 PM
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Shame on you! That information is in the Guide, which you should have memorized by now.

Linky: http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...ated_umik.html
Opps. This is what happens when you have "live" help available, you overlook the guide...
Thanks Jerry...

Edit : I was going to get UMM-6. or should I get UMIK-1. Which one is most favored?

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post #12317 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 05:21 PM
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All explained in the Guide! Basically they are functionally equivalent.

BTW, you do know where the guide is, don't you?
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post #12318 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 05:46 PM
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BTW, you do know where the guide is, don't you?
Austin, TX
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I used REW earlier today to tune the audio system in my new vehicle. Set up the USB mic and used a 3.5mm stereo cable to the AUX IN audio port on the car. I was able to find the optimal settings for an 8-band equalizer. Who said REW isn't a useful tool? I didn't bother installing any treatments though.
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post #12320 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 07:10 PM
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Before and after graphs!!!!!

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post #12321 of 12330 Old Yesterday, 08:44 PM
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I used REW earlier today to tune the audio system in my new vehicle. Set up the USB mic and used a 3.5mm stereo cable to the AUX IN audio port on the car. I was able to find the optimal settings for an 8-band equalizer. Who said REW isn't a useful tool? I didn't bother installing any treatments though.
Yeah. How about some "pink fluffy" dangling allover the inside of it..
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post #12322 of 12330 Old Today, 07:27 AM
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Yeah. How about some "pink fluffy" dangling allover the inside of it..
Who needs pink fluffy when you can literally make the "walls" disappear by rolling down the window or opening the sunroof!
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post #12323 of 12330 Old Today, 09:22 AM
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No sunroof this time. It was the carbon fiber roof or a sunroof, and I chose the former. I add passengers to deaden the sound.
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No, you are correct. The guide should read 25 to 5 dB headroom. Thanks for pointing that out--I have made the correction.

As for whether you should get a new mic or not, keep in mind that many of us here use the USB mic with HDMI connections. This makes it easy to select channels in a 7.1 audio configuration. Since you have a two-channel audio system with a processor that doesn't support HDMI, I would say that your present kit is perfectly fine for your needs. You should be able to fully utilize the features of REW to analyze your system.
Ahh that makes sense, thanks for the clarification.

Yep my pre is strictly analog (my rig is Audirvana+ player with mini > ifi iDSD Micro dac > P7 > A21 amp > speakers), with the P7 also performing bass mgmt via its sub out. Speakers are full range and the subs are crossed at 50hz (in the P7). I'm plugging into an unused input on the P7 with RCA going to either the L or R chnl, with tone controls and all trims off.

I ran a ton of measurements and still not sure if I have the mic calibration "portion" correct as I reduced the mic volume level to 21 (in the Windows recording devices properties). I'm not sure if that has any adverse effect on the process. That level setting seemed to work since performing the mic calibration (SPL meter 80db at MLP, C weighted, slow, level 60-90) during the check level and actual measurements, I didn't receive any errors (headroom was fine, check level was -24 and max SPL said 105)

That being said, these are a few measurements
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post #12325 of 12330 Old Today, 11:33 AM
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@ Ratamacue:

Couple of comments on the measurements. First of all, it looks like you have the measurement process down pretty well. The two ETC graphs look quite good, meaning your reflections are well under control. The waterfall graph technique could be improved upon. The time window we usually use here is 450ms, not 600ms. And the measurement level seems to be a bit low. Could you try the waterfall again, measuring at a level of ~90dB, and using a 450ms time window? That will allow for a more meaningful assessment. And finally, the frequency response graphs are not too bad. They show the typical fluctuations many of us here see before we run Audyssey room correction, which cleans a lot of the unevenness up. But if you want to preserve the pristine analog path, I can certainly understand that, and I am certain that your system sounds fabulous.
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post #12326 of 12330 Old Today, 11:41 AM
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But if you want to preserve the pristine analog path, I can certainly understand that, and I am certain that your system sounds fabulous.
a quick google says Audirvana+ supports Audio Unit plugins, perfect place for applying any EQ you need as it keeps it all digital before you head down to the physical world. IMV you will experience a significant uptick in music performance if you go down that road.
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post #12327 of 12330 Old Today, 11:58 AM
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@ Ratamacue:

Couple of comments on the measurements. First of all, it looks like you have the measurement process down pretty well. The two ETC graphs look quite good, meaning your reflections are well under control. The waterfall graph technique could be improved upon. The time window we usually use here is 450ms, not 600ms. And the measurement level seems to be a bit low. Could you try the waterfall again, measuring at a level of ~90dB, and using a 450ms time window? That will allow for a more meaningful assessment. And finally, the frequency response graphs are not too bad. They show the typical fluctuations many of us here see before we run Audyssey room correction, which cleans a lot of the unevenness up. But if you want to preserve the pristine analog path, I can certainly understand that, and I am certain that your system sounds fabulous.
Thanks for response and suggestions. Yes absolutely, I will redo the measurements per your comments. I apologize for the waterfalls, I thought the guide stated to use 600ms and I'm sure I misread.

In my HT room I do use Audyssey (Marantz 6006 AVR, great item) but I'm all about music and now with a 2channel space, that's my passion (and acoustics for sure). Thanks you again for your time.

It's pretty amazing you can look at these graphs/datasets and know if a system sounds "good/not so good" so to speak. That is a goal of mine for certain => learn/understand how to interpret the data and then apply it.

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a quick google says Audirvana+ supports Audio Unit plugins, perfect place for applying any EQ you need as it keeps it all digital before you head down to the physical world. IMV you will experience a significant uptick in music performance if you go down that road.
Yes you are correct. I haven't spent too much time with A+ audio units, but after I get a handle on the REW measurements and get a better understanding what they mean, I'll have to play around with that PEQ for some additional correction support
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post #12329 of 12330 Old Today, 02:07 PM
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@ Ratamacue:

Couple of comments on the measurements. First of all, it looks like you have the measurement process down pretty well. The two ETC graphs look quite good, meaning your reflections are well under control. The waterfall graph technique could be improved upon. The time window we usually use here is 450ms, not 600ms. And the measurement level seems to be a bit low. Could you try the waterfall again, measuring at a level of ~90dB, and using a 450ms time window? That will allow for a more meaningful assessment. And finally, the frequency response graphs are not too bad. They show the typical fluctuations many of us here see before we run Audyssey room correction, which cleans a lot of the unevenness up. But if you want to preserve the pristine analog path, I can certainly understand that, and I am certain that your system sounds fabulous.
Here are two R+L+subs waterfall's at 88db.

Interesting to note, that if I keep the master volume the same, say 81 when doing R chnl (88db), its appears that volume setting produces a bit more SPL when performing the L chnl sweeps? I say that because during the measurement, it would display a 6db in red under headroom, but on the R chnl it was roughly 6db in green?

So before doing the L chnl sweep, I re-ran mic calibration and adjust the master volume until the SPL meter displayed 88db (max). That turned out to be 78 on the master volume for the left chnl and when performing the sweep with that volume setting it displayed 6db in green.

FWIW, the left side of the room has a few more "obstacles" structurally (e.g.has a few bump outs). Room dims are 11x24x7
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As you can see, changing the window to 450ms presents an entirely different picture. On the left waterfall, there is quite a bit of ringing starting at 50Hz and below, with ~27Hz and ~45Hz showing the worst problems. The right has similar issues, with something happening in the 80-90Hz range as well. Is either 27Hz or 45Hz a primary mode in your room? Did you publish room dimensions?

IIUC, your mains are set to Large, i.e. full range? Have you considered setting them to small, and allowing the subs to carry the full load below the crossover? This might alter the bass response characteristics of the listening room. Depending on your satisfaction level with the sound, there are all sorts of opportunities for trying different configurations and speaker placements. The value of REW is that you can immediately assess the effect of every change you make.
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