Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 427 - AVS Forum
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post #12781 of 12858 Old 12-15-2014, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
With all due respect, you should not be asking anyone to repeat what is already covered in the guide. Please refer to page 93, and then come back if you need clarification.
Somehow I missed that part in the guide. Thanks for pointing out the page number.
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post #12782 of 12858 Old 12-15-2014, 10:54 PM
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Ok guys. It took me about a week to get all the material and put them in room to acoustically treat my room. So far I have gone with bass traps. It did improve a lot. But here is the situation. When I take reading without Audyssey, my water fall looks pretty good. But with Audyssey enabled, it looks pretty bad. Here are the results of with/without Audyssey. All readings are taken with left and right and subs. No smoothing is applied. So what does it mean? Audyssey seem to be making the room decay worse. What can be done about it?
Also there is a nasty dip around 90. I am assuming that after I put the panels to cover reflection points, it will be taken care of?
Thx.
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post #12783 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 01:16 AM
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The only real issue appears to be at about 35hz, where it looks like some boost has been applied.

Otherwise, the overall level has been raised by about 6-7 dB, which makes the graph look worse. Run another sweep with Audyssey off at about 6 dB louder, then compare (to the above Audyssey on sweep).

Last edited by Audionut11; 12-16-2014 at 01:21 AM.
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post #12784 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 01:51 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
When I take reading without Audyssey, my water fall looks pretty good. But with Audyssey enabled, it looks pretty bad..
What makes you think it would look bad? It doesn't. If "ridges" start at the top of the first slice then you would need to worry but this isn't the case here.

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post #12785 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 06:45 AM
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Both Audionut and Markus have given you good feedback. The first thing I noticed is that you changed the measurement levels between the two waterfalls, which would alter the appearance, perhaps making the second graph look worse to you when it really isn't. And as Markus says, neither graph is revealing major issues. For your own peace of mind, I recommend re-running the measurements, paying close attention to match the levels, and then see if the two look significantly different.
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post #12786 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
What makes you think it would look bad? It doesn't. If "ridges" start at the top of the first slice then you would need to worry but this isn't the case here.
They do seem to start from first slice. There is a dip in the middle but then it continues on. Looking at 40, it seems like it started from 1st slice, took a small dip and then continued.

I"m not sure why there is a level difference. It calibrated avr volume with SPL meter at 80. I think I did that with only left speaker and sub. But when we are taking reading, its L+R+Sub. So may be that's the case? I'll do it again.

Also, I'm not able to get the center speaker produce any pink noise. I chose every single option from output (1-8) under preference and generated pink noise from Generator but didn't get any output from center speaker.
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post #12787 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Both Audionut and Markus have given you good feedback. The first thing I noticed is that you changed the measurement levels between the two waterfalls, which would alter the appearance, perhaps making the second graph look worse to you when it really isn't. And as Markus says, neither graph is revealing major issues. For your own peace of mind, I recommend re-running the measurements, paying close attention to match the levels, and then see if the two look significantly different.
ok I'll match the levels and then take more reading. It seems like I don't understand water fall very well. My understanding was that we want to make sure that the decay doesn't go below 400ms (450 according to guide). Now it seems like there are other factors as well. Something to do with weather its one continuous decay from first slice? I"m not sure. For example, decay at 40 clearly seems like starting from top. How is that good? Or is it so insignificant that we don't need to worry about it?

thx
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post #12788 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
I"m not sure why there is a level difference. It calibrated avr volume with SPL meter at 80. I think I did that with only left speaker and sub. But when we are taking reading, its L+R+Sub. So may be that's the case? I'll do it again.
Did you have Dynamic EQ on?

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Also, I'm not able to get the center speaker produce any pink noise. I chose every single option from output (1-8) under preference and generated pink noise from Generator but didn't get any output from center speaker.
The CC is output 3. Try a different surround mode.
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post #12789 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:22 AM
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When I manually calibrate the mic, I am outputting a signal to both left and right channels (including the subs), AVR in stereo mode, and Audyssey turned off. I set the AVR MV level at 90dB, measured by an external SPL (which on my AVR is a MV setting of -10). Subsequent measurements using only one channel will be at slightly lower levels.
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post #12790 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
They do seem to start from first slice. There is a dip in the middle but then it continues on. Looking at 40, it seems like it started from 1st slice, took a small dip and then continued.

No, THIS is modal ringing

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post #12791 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Did you have Dynamic EQ on?



The CC is output 3. Try a different surround mode.
Yes Dynamic EQ was on. Should it be off?
I only get a few surround modes including (Auto,Multi 7.1, Stereo,Virtual). Selecting 3rd one produces sound from Left and Right speaker.
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post #12792 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:29 AM
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^
You have to switch of any additional processing like DEQ. Multi 7.1 sounds like the mode you want to use. C is channel 3.

Markus

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post #12793 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
No, THIS is modal ringing

That, my friend, is an ugly picture. What did you have to do to simulate such massive ringing, assuming of course, that it wasn't an actual case study?
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post #12794 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:33 AM
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Yup, Dyn EQ will boost the bass under 0MV so shut it off for REW measurements.
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post #12795 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 08:33 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
^
You have to switch of any additional processing like DEQ. Multi 7.1 sounds like the mode you want to use. C is channel 3.
I would use stereo. Not sure what Multi 7.1 is doing to the signal.
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post #12796 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:05 AM
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I would use stereo. Not sure what Multi 7.1 is doing to the signal.
Stereo is what I was using. With that, I'm not able to get center speaker working.
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post #12797 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:09 AM
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Yup, Dyn EQ will boost the bass under 0MV so shut it off for REW measurements.
I left it on because when I"m watching movies, Dynamic EQ is on. So shouldn't I be taking reading of how I"ll be listening to the system later on?

I thought the process is to first keep EQ off in avr and work with stereo. Once good results are achieved (room treament+speaker placement) then run EQ to get best result.

That's exactly what I did and wanted to see how Audyssey performed with given input. Therefore wouldn't it be better to take reading with Dynamic EQ on since that's how I"ll be watching movies?

thx
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post #12798 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:11 AM
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Up to you, but it will be hard (impossible) to compare Audyssey ON/OFF graphs that way.
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post #12799 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:13 AM
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That, my friend, is an ugly picture. What did you have to do to simulate such massive ringing, assuming of course, that it wasn't an actual case study?
That is an actual room. Typical basement European style.

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post #12800 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:14 AM
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Stereo is what I was using. With that, I'm not able to get center speaker working.
Stereo will downmix everything to L and R. So if he wants to measure C then this might not be the best idea

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post #12801 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:14 AM
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Stereo is what I was using. With that, I'm not able to get center speaker working.
Not sure I understand. If you are using a laptop with HDMI 7.1 support, then outputting a signal in REW to HDMI Out 3 should result in a tone from the center channel. If, however, your laptop only supports HDMI 2.0, then to get a tone from the center channel, you would normally output to both HDMI Out 1 and HDMI Out 2, and use PLII Cinema mode. If you don't have PLII Cinema mode on your AVR, what kind of AVR are you using? Which situation best describes what you have?
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post #12802 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:15 AM
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That is an actual room. Typical basement European style.
Ouch. My sympathies. Apply bass traps liberally.
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post #12803 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:16 AM
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I left it on because when I"m watching movies, Dynamic EQ is on. So shouldn't I be taking reading of how I"ll be listening to the system later on?

I thought the process is to first keep EQ off in avr and work with stereo. Once good results are achieved (room treament+speaker placement) then run EQ to get best result.

That's exactly what I did and wanted to see how Audyssey performed with given input. Therefore wouldn't it be better to take reading with Dynamic EQ on since that's how I"ll be watching movies?

thx
No because Dynamic EQ is, well, dynamic. It reacts to the input. You'll get different results with different test signals.
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post #12804 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:16 AM
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Ouch. My sympathies. Apply bass traps liberally.
DBA and all the basement ugliness is gone.

Markus

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post #12805 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:18 AM
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No because Dynamic EQ is, well, dynamic. It reacts to the input. You'll get different results with different test signals.
This is a great point!
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post #12806 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:27 AM
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That, my friend, is an ugly picture. What did you have to do to simulate such massive ringing, assuming of course, that it wasn't an actual case study?
Well this is an extreme version :-)
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post #12807 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:37 AM
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Not sure I understand. If you are using a laptop with HDMI 7.1 support, then outputting a signal in REW to HDMI Out 3 should result in a tone from the center channel. If, however, your laptop only supports HDMI 2.0, then to get a tone from the center channel, you would normally output to both HDMI Out 1 and HDMI Out 2, and use PLII Cinema mode. If you don't have PLII Cinema mode on your AVR, what kind of AVR are you using? Which situation best describes what you have?
I am using Samsung series 9 laptop. It uses micro HDMI. This is the HDMI cable I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Reading the specs, it seems like it supports HDMI 2.0 :-(

This HDMI does support 7.1 since I can go to playback configuration and during configuration can see all 7 speakers. Running a test (in that screen) also produces sound thru center speaker.

There is PLII Cinema mode when I have avr hooked up with PS3. When hooked up with PC, this option goes away. I"m using Marantz SR6007. So it seems like when avr is hooked up with pc on Aux, it doesn't give PLII option.
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post #12808 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:38 AM
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No because Dynamic EQ is, well, dynamic. It reacts to the input. You'll get different results with different test signals.
Couldn't be said better :-) thx for that.
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post #12809 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
There is PLII Cinema mode when I have avr hooked up with PS3. When hooked up with PC, this option goes away. I"m using Marantz SR6007. So it seems like when avr is hooked up with pc on Aux, it doesn't give PLII option.
Run a signal from REW (pink noise, whatever) to the AVR using channels 1&2 (FL/R) and I bet you will then be able to select PLII.
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post #12810 of 12858 Old 12-16-2014, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
I am using Samsung series 9 laptop. It uses micro HDMI. This is the HDMI cable I use http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Reading the specs, it seems like it supports HDMI 2.0 :-(

This HDMI does support 7.1 since I can go to playback configuration and during configuration can see all 7 speakers. Running a test (in that screen) also produces sound thru center speaker.

There is PLII Cinema mode when I have avr hooked up with PS3. When hooked up with PC, this option goes away. I"m using Marantz SR6007. So it seems like when avr is hooked up with pc on Aux, it doesn't give PLII option.
OK, when you have the REW preferences screen open and click the Output drop-down box, how many HDMI output channels does it show? If only two, then you have 2.0 support. If eight channels, then you have 7.1 support.

TBH, being able to configure PLII when using one input and not the AUX input just doesn't make any sense to me. Please try again.
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