Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 430 - AVS Forum
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post #12871 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 11:37 AM
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There is an android app for various Denon/Marantz models that does the same.
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post #12872 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tvuong View Post
Have a dumb question for all of the Denon owner, X4000 especially, how do you change ALL speakers level without starting the receiver test tone?
You don't. Most receivers don't allow adjustment of speaker gain without annoying the user with a noise signal.

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post #12873 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As the guide says, you should be using "Speaker Cal" Pink Noise output at -30dBFS.
So sorry Jerry, shoulda known it was in the Guide.

BTW, it says to set my AVR to "Stereo" but when I do that and select the CC in REW (CH3) the pink noise comes through my FL/R. Am I doing something wrong?

I just set it to multi-channel and it works fine for me.
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post #12874 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 12:25 PM
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I am finding spectrograms more and more useful when looking at decay and reflections (mids and highs). While ETC slicing is an interesting way also, the spectrogram is a one step easy snapshot. Above are 3 different mdats I have access to. All three of these rooms have had treatment.

I am beginning to question the usefulness of full range ETC's. All 3 of the above rooms look pretty good looking at full range ETC's. But the spectrograms tell different stories I think.

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Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
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Last edited by jim19611961; 12-19-2014 at 12:58 PM.
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post #12875 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 12:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
So sorry Jerry, shoulda known it was in the Guide.

BTW, it says to set my AVR to "Stereo" but when I do that and select the CC in REW (CH3) the pink noise comes through my FL/R. Am I doing something wrong?

I just set it to multi-channel and it works fine for me.
Yes. Recall that I only have 2.0 support on my laptop HDMI. There are a number of spots in the guide where I say Stereo, when laptop users with full 7.1 HDMI functionality should choose Multi CH. I should clean up the guide, but am focused on some other priorities right now. Glad you figured it out.
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post #12876 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
I am finding spectrograms more and more useful when looking at decay and reflections (mids and highs).
Yes, I also do use the spectrogram quite often. If only there were a normalize function. This would make comparisons much easier.

Markus

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post #12877 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 01:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Every AVR I have ever used has a section in the menu that outputs level-setting tones to individual speakers, and has a trim setting allowing for the levels to be adjusted. Sure, when you use this menu, the AVR test tone temporarily overrides the RREW tone, but one you change the trim, you are back to the REW test tone. I am not following why this is an issue.
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You don't. Most receivers don't allow adjustment of speaker gain without annoying the user with a noise signal.
Got Cha. Thanks.
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post #12878 of 12897 Old 12-19-2014, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
The iOS app DeRemote will allow you to do this. Not sure if it's on other platforms.

Attachment 431194

Sent using Tapatalk since the mobile version is still
That is very nice. Why can't the Denon remote or gui do that is another question.
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post #12879 of 12897 Old 12-20-2014, 06:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Attachment 431218

Attachment 431226

Attachment 431234

I am finding spectrograms more and more useful when looking at decay and reflections (mids and highs). While ETC slicing is an interesting way also, the spectrogram is a one step easy snapshot. Above are 3 different mdats I have access to. All three of these rooms have had treatment.

I am beginning to question the usefulness of full range ETC's. All 3 of the above rooms look pretty good looking at full range ETC's. But the spectrograms tell different stories I think.
Hey Jim, RyanC from GS, I believe the 2nd spectrogram there is mine. That is interesting to see that, I think more than anything else that is diffraction/reflections from my workstation/desk, I attached a picture. In the next round of refinements I intend to (try) to make it both more acoustically transparent via having the structure have smaller reflective dimensions, as well as motorized height adjustable for the center part. Sitting all day every day is (literally) killing me!

But also some of that mid-range messiness might be due to rear wall (and some side wall) slats (they all should be over about 15ms). Even if it might clean up the measurement a little to take them down, I wouldn't want to. I found the dead room was harder for me to mix in, and extra-difficult with attending clients who weren't adjusted to it. At some point the best *fix* is going to come from getting into a room that is bigger than 200sf and 1600ft^3. I Have been shopping, the goal for the next control room will be more like 400sf a 4000ft^3.
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post #12880 of 12897 Old 12-20-2014, 08:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Attachment 431218

Attachment 431226

Attachment 431234

I am finding spectrograms more and more useful when looking at decay and reflections (mids and highs). While ETC slicing is an interesting way also, the spectrogram is a one step easy snapshot. Above are 3 different mdats I have access to. All three of these rooms have had treatment.

I am beginning to question the usefulness of full range ETC's. All 3 of the above rooms look pretty good looking at full range ETC's. But the spectrograms tell different stories I think.
Jim, Those Spectrograms look different than the ones I generate. Did you use REW to create them? Here is what mine look like:





Other than looking at resonance, which is what we have been using them for, what else do you see in the Spectrogram that reveals something about the listening room?
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post #12881 of 12897 Old 12-20-2014, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Jim, Those Spectrograms look different than the ones I generate. Did you use REW to create them? Here is what mine look like:
I included the control settings in my spectrograms. The ones I made were meant to show early and mid length reflections across the frequency band where as yours, and the way they are set are more about late room decay and resonances. The spectrogram is a versatile tool that shows different things depending on how it is set.

So yes, I made those with REW and if you make your control settings match mine, you will get this picture as well.

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Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
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post #12882 of 12897 Old Today, 07:50 AM
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@jim19611961
Over at GS, you mention the transition frequency as 250hz. Your room dimensions suggest an Schroeder's frequency of around 151hz.

Nice work btw.
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post #12883 of 12897 Old Today, 07:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
The spectrogram is a versatile tool that shows different things depending on how it is set.
Looks like the "Guide" needs another chapter.

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post #12884 of 12897 Old Today, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Audionut11 View Post
@jim19611961
Over at GS, you mention the transition frequency as 250hz. Your room dimensions suggest an Schroeder's frequency of around 151hz.

Nice work btw.
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Thanks.

This calculator says its 84hz. In any case, I am not going to get early reflections to -20db down to 84hz

This does provoke another thought. If the transition frequency or Schroeder's frequency (Defined as approximately the boundary between reverberant room behavior above and discrete room modes below) designates at what point you begin to hear the room more vs hearing the speakers. Then it also stands to reason that it also defines the point at which you begin to lose a sense of directionality. My reasoning is once room modes begin to dominate what you hear, then directionality queues from the speaker begin to become compromised.

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post #12885 of 12897 Old Today, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
The iOS app DeRemote will allow you to do this. Not sure if it's on other platforms.

Attachment 431194

Sent using Tapatalk since the mobile version is still
this doesnt work with the x4100...unless there has been an update which I havent had yet

nvm just saw there was an update...ill see if it does it now..that would be huge!

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post #12886 of 12897 Old Today, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Attachment 435057

Thanks.

This calculator says its 84hz. In any case, I am not going to get early reflections to -20db down to 84hz
Why only -20dB? Research suggests that depending on the signal you'd need to get to -30dB. And, by the way, your reverberation time is way to high

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post #12887 of 12897 Old Today, 08:31 AM
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Why only -20dB? Research suggests that depending on the signal you'd need to get to -30dB. And, by the way, your reverberation time is way to high
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Done

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post #12888 of 12897 Old Today, 08:37 AM
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^
Phew, thanks

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post #12889 of 12897 Old Today, 08:50 AM
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^
Phew, thanks
On a more serious note, doesn't the needed DB down requirement/recommendation depend on the frequency in question?

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post #12890 of 12897 Old Today, 08:53 AM
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Frequency, type of signal, probably even direction. And, the less reflections the more single ones become audible. Our hearing is actively scanning for patterns it can associate with known aural spaces and situations.

Markus

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post #12891 of 12897 Old Today, 08:57 AM
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^
Frequency, type of signal, probably even direction. And, the less reflections the more single ones become audible. Our hearing is actively scanning for patterns it can associate with known aural spaces and situations.
Hence, one of the reasons for a strong kicker

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post #12892 of 12897 Old Today, 09:08 AM
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It's a nice effect but I would want the recording to provide the kicker. It should be the content creator's prerogative to decide how his art sounds.

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post #12893 of 12897 Old Today, 09:26 AM
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^
It's a nice effect but I would want the recording to provide the kicker. It should be the content creator's prerogative to decide how his art sounds.
How it sounds depends much on how it is reproduced in ones listening environment.

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How it sounds depends much on how it is reproduced in ones listening environment.
If it does then the question is... Where is the FIdelity?
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Lost in reproduction.

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Master handbook of acoustics. I linked it earlier.

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post #12897 of 12897 Old Today, 09:43 PM
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It should be the content creator's prerogative to decide how his art sounds.
Too bad we can't get a content creator to sit in our theaters for a proper evaluation.

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