Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 460 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13771 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 11:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
I've run separate L, C and R sweeps for my Fusion 8 Alchemies. As expected, their response is fairly similar. However, when I run them all together (I know, not one of the suggested sweeps, so I'll accept "Don't do that" as a valid reply), I get some additive, as expected, and some not. Not an ideal room by any means, but I would think the summed response would be more similar to the individual sweeps.
Or not?
Now I thought at some point I saw you had said you reversed the polarity of the entire center channel, is this true? If not ignore as I may have been mistaken.
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post #13772 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 11:54 AM
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Keep in mind that what I posted was the pre-out measurements. If I had posted a measurement of the pre-outs with Audyssey off, you would have seen a smooth line, because pre-out measurements have no room effects. So I claim that the measurement I posted answers your question exactly WRT how much correction Audyssey XT32 applies above 300Hz. The only better answer would be to actually measure YOUR in-room response with XT32 on and off, something I cannot do.

BTW, if you want to control correction above a specific frequency, then you should consider Dirac Live as implemented in the very affordable MiniDSP DDRC-88A. Read through the 88A to familiarize yourself with this product if you have not already done so.
Thanks Jerry! Actually, I just came back to this computer to apologize, I just figured out downstairs what you meant by posting preamp output measurements...

Edit: yes, I have been following the 88A thread. I am on the fence, about that and just what I want. Was/am considering the 7702/8802, but then thought: no room for more amps in my HT room if I want to try Atmos (I do have several spare Bryston amps I could use for ceiling speakers), so maybe I need a better AVR for use as a pre-pro + 2-4 of its amps instead...that would fit OK. Do I want Atmos speakers/amps then, or do I just want to use its apparently better decoder? If I do need more channels (I find it deceiving that many Atmos proponents say it doesn't use "channels" since it's object-based!), do I want to Dirac them? etc. etc. It doesn't help that this is a bad year for audio tech, reminds me of 2010 in some ways and the half-assed audio crappage they released that model year (MY 2011 was much better): too many unresolved A/V (4K/HDMI/HDCP) things that are to be resolved shortly, there really is nothing much important that's new right now, that's why they did the Atmos this "year" (late 2014-15), else they'd have nothing to sell).

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post #13773 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by cfraser View Post
Thanks Jerry! Actually, I just came back to this computer to apologize, I just figured out downstairs what you meant by posting preamp output measurements...

Edit: yes, I have been following the 88A thread. I am on the fence, about that and just what I want. Was/am considering the 7702/8802, but then thought: no room for more amps in my HT room if I want to try Atmos (I have several spare Bryston amps), so maybe I need a better AVR for use as a pre-pro + 2-4 of its amps instead...that would fit OK. Do I want Atmos speakers/amps then, or do I just want to use its apparently better decoder? If I do need more channels (I find it deceiving that many Atmos proponents say it doesn't use "channels" since it's object-based!), do I want to Dirac them? etc. etc. It doesn't help that this is a bad year for audio tech, reminds me of 2010 in some ways and the half-assed audio crappage they released that model year (MY 2011 was much better): too many unre4solved A/V things that are to be resolved shortly, there really is nothing much important that's new right now, that's why they did the Atmos this year, else they'd have nothing to sell).
So many decisions to make. Good luck!
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post #13774 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 12:14 PM
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Now I thought at some point I saw you had said you reversed the polarity of the entire center channel, is this true? If not ignore as I may have been mistaken.
AFAIK, the polarity of everything is okay now. My next step, which I'm not eager to take, is to measure the response of each driver individually. According to Jeff, "I selected the Eminence Beta-8 woofer due to its high sensitivity and very linear response and was surprised at the exceptional midrange quality of this driver." I'm getting anything but a "very linear response," and I'm not about to rule out the possibility that I've done something wrong. Though the thought of rebuilding the damn things appeals to me about as much as poking an eye out.
I was hoping someone looking at the graphs would see something with a relatively easy solution. But I knew the odds of that!
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post #13775 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 12:20 PM
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I don't see anything wrong with the individual speaker measurements. Just for kicks try reversing the input wires on the center channel and measure all three again.
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post #13776 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 12:23 PM
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Jerry: Sorry, I was typing my response above while talking on the phone, so it's a bit disjointed...

Yes, so many very very very important decisions that my life depends on. If I have to "make room" for more gear, and that would be a lot of difficult work, I want to do it in a longer-term and worthwhile way, rather than scatter-shot. I just don't have floor room to spare for any more racks, and the existing ones are already way over my head so I need step-stools to reach stuff lol (multiple systems in room).
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post #13777 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
I don't see anything wrong with the individual speaker measurements. Just for kicks try reversing the input wires on the center channel and measure all three again.
Next week. Life is getting in the way for a few days. I'll let you know.

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post #13778 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 03:31 PM
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New to REW and I tried to follow the guide as much as possible (on a mac w/ a USB mic). Any ideas what might be going on around 60Hz? This is a new dedicated HT space with zero treatments. Trying to get some baseline measurements before I start on a new HT build. Room is approx 19'x15'x9.5'.
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post #13779 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 05:31 PM
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Any ideas what might be going on around 60Hz? ... Room is approx 19'x15'x9.5'.
Seems like a room mode. Do you have a separate sub? More than one? Have you done the sub crawl?
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post #13780 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 05:55 PM
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Seems like a room mode. Do you have a separate sub? More than one? Have you done the sub crawl?
This is a measurement with the Left and Right speakers, and a separate SVS SB13 Ultra sub. Right now I just have the single sub.
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post #13781 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 06:26 PM
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What is the cheapest (yes cheapest.. no breaking the back) and simplest but most effective way to make a bass trap.
I know R30 is mentioned, but how do one hold it together say for a corner trap?
I googled, but most of the DIY articles are for studio application (and towards heavier use side).
For the HT, what would be our best approach?
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post #13782 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
What is the cheapest (yes cheapest.. no breaking the back) and simplest but most effective way to make a bass trap.
I know R30 is mentioned, but how do one hold it together say for a corner trap?
I googled, but most of the DIY articles are for studio application (and towards heavier use side).
For the HT, what would be our best approach?

Literally, the cheapest is to buy a roll of R30, break the seal on the bag and drop it somewhere in the room. You may need more than one roll to achieve your goal.

I've read of people using chicken wire to make a sort of frame for the R30 and then covering it with a decent fabric.
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post #13783 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted by revans35 View Post
Right now I just have the single sub.
Have you tried moving the sub around and measuring to see where it works best?

This is what I meant by sub crawl. Have you done that? Instead of listening, since you have a mic and REW, you can use those to find the best place for the sub.
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post #13784 of 14826 Old 03-03-2015, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
I've read of people using chicken wire to make a sort of frame for the R30 and then covering it with a decent fabric.
Not chicken wire as I used the wire form to support stacking but similar to what you described:

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post #13785 of 14826 Old 03-04-2015, 05:07 AM
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Literally, the cheapest is to buy a roll of R30, break the seal on the bag and drop it somewhere in the room. You may need more than one roll to achieve your goal.

I've read of people using chicken wire to make a sort of frame for the R30 and then covering it with a decent fabric.
Thanks.
I was wondering if I can make a cylindrical long bag and shove R30 in it and then stick that cylinder at the corner (hidden).
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post #13786 of 14826 Old 03-04-2015, 05:08 AM
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Not chicken wire as I used the wire form to support stacking but similar to what you described:


That will consume half of my HT real estate..
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post #13787 of 14826 Old 03-04-2015, 06:02 AM
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But it would sound GREAT!

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post #13788 of 14826 Old 03-04-2015, 07:42 AM
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That will consume half of my HT real estate..

Tell me about it!


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post #13789 of 14826 Old 03-04-2015, 07:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by revans35 View Post
New to REW and I tried to follow the guide as much as possible (on a mac w/ a USB mic). Any ideas what might be going on around 60Hz? This is a new dedicated HT space with zero treatments. Trying to get some baseline measurements before I start on a new HT build. Room is approx 19'x15'x9.5'.
That looks like 60hz hum to me...try unplugging your appliances (fridge, freezer, HVAC) one at a time and running sweeps until it disappears.

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post #13790 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 09:34 AM
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Can someone please explain how to interpret RT30 graph? What is it showing? What should a good RT30 result look like? I'm attaching my center channel FR and RT graphs.
Thanks.
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post #13791 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:08 AM
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Can someone please explain how to interpret RT30 graph? What is it showing? What should a good RT30 result look like? I'm attaching my center channel FR and RT graphs.
Thanks.
Center FR looks good. Not sure the RT60 has much value. It is rarely posted here or discussed. It is a measure of reverberation in the room, and I don't know what is good or bad. I suggest you read the REW Help section, or do an internet search. For comparison, here is my T30:



Edit: Are you going to get a Dropbox account so you don't have to post those postage-stamp size images all the time?
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post #13792 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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Guys, sorry for such an elementary question, in the preference settings in REW I can not get the UMIK-1 to be detected, the only option in the slide down menu is HD audio 1 and 2. When I first launched REW a caption did show up that a UMIK-1 was detected but then it was gone. Sorry guys, I finally decided to try and take a measurement, all the windows configurations went well until I got to this part. I'm using a 8.1 windows laptop with HDMI.
Jeff
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post #13793 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Edit: Are you going to get a Dropbox account so you don't have to post those postage-stamp size images all the time?
you don't need dropbox, just use the image url itself and insert into the post using the img tag instead of as an attachment which helps those of us behind corporate firewalls that block dropbox
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post #13794 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:18 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Center FR looks good. Not sure the RT60 has much value. It is rarely posted here or discussed. It is a measure of reverberation in the room, and I don't know what is good or bad. I suggest you read the REW Help section, or do an internet search. For comparison, here is my T30:



Edit: Are you going to get a Dropbox account so you don't have to post those postage-stamp size images all the time?
I didn't know to attach like you did. Now I do. I"ll create a dropbox account. Thx.
Jerry can you also post your FR account with/without sub channel plz (Dirac version). Thx
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post #13795 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:25 AM
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Originally Posted by SherazNJ View Post
Can someone please explain how to interpret RT30 graph? What is it showing? What should a good RT30 result look like? I'm attaching my center channel FR and RT graphs.
Thanks.
good or bad depends on what the goal is, I'd say yours looks a shade on the dead side. If you want a reference then tou can look for things like EBU3276 calculators which tend to show target times in the 0.3-0.4s range for normal sized rooms.
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post #13796 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Guys, sorry for such an elementary question, in the preference settings in REW I can not get the UMIK-1 to be detected, the only option in the slide down menu is HD audio 1 and 2. When I first launched REW a caption did show up that a UMIK-1 was detected but then it was gone. Sorry guys, I finally decided to try and take a measurement, all the windows configurations went well until I got to this part. I'm using a 8.1 windows laptop with HDMI.
Jeff
Looks like you already got a response in the PSA thread: Official Power Sound Audio Subwoofer Thread

Have you tried Hop's suggestions? Your problem is not uncommon, and following the recommendation above often solves the issues you are encountering. As the I Ching says "perseverance furthers"

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post #13797 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
good or bad depends on what the goal is, I'd say yours looks a shade on the dead side. If you want a reference then tou can look for things like EBU3276 calculators which tend to show target times in the 0.3-0.4s range for normal sized rooms.
Sorry, this just flew over my head. I don't even know what I'm looking at. What does it represent? Would be great if someone can explain in lehman terms.
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post #13798 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 11:32 AM
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Sorry, this just flew over my head. I don't even know what I'm looking at. What does it represent? Would be great if someone can explain in lehman terms.
The horizontal straight-line segments represent frequency ranges (horizontal scale). The height of the line segment corresponds to a "liveliness" measurement in your listening room (vertical scale). I believe that I have heard that a value above .5 indicates a fairly lively room. The lower the measurement, the more toward "dead" your room measures. That is about all I know.

As I said, no one seems to care about this measurement, so I wouldn't obsess about it.
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post #13799 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 11:36 AM
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Sorry, this just flew over my head. I don't even know what I'm looking at. What does it represent? Would be great if someone can explain in lehman terms.
it shows how long does the sound take to reduce (decay) by a given amount plotted by frequency, arguably not directly applicable to a small room but still used to give some information as to the liveness of a room.
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post #13800 of 14826 Old 03-05-2015, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The horizontal straight-line segments represent frequency ranges (horizontal scale). The height of the line segment corresponds to a "liveliness" measurement in your listening room (vertical scale). I believe that I have heard that a value above .5 indicates a fairly lively room. The lower the measurement, the more toward "dead" your room measures. That is about all I know.

As I said, no one seems to care about this measurement, so I wouldn't obsess about it.
Ok then how'd we know if your room is getting more towards being dead? We have FR to see if we are getting a pretty much flat response. We have Filtered ID to see how much of reflection is going in room. If anything, I got a lot of reflection going for my center channel (even though I have first reflection covered all around


https://www.dropbox.com/s/evw110f2z8...ction.jpg?dl=0

So how do we know if a room is dread for a specific channel? I thought if you have more reflection going that its more alive than being dead.

Jerry: Haven't been able to successfully share file yet. Working on it.

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