Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 472 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!


Forum Jump: 
 414Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #14131 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 03:48 PM
Senior Member
 
mattdub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
See my previous post but if you can't improve the 40-100Hz range then I'd personally sacrifice the boundary gain you appear to be getting below 40Hz for a much smoother response in what I consider to be the more critical 40-100Hz range. I still think you can improve this range by measuring across the width of your room and perhaps finding a better MLP distance from front wall to improve the overall response even further.
It just seems like I will hardly get any output below 40hz if I choose the length wall. Isn't that where you feel the couch shaking bass in that range?
mattdub1 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #14132 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 04:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jkasanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
It just seems like I will hardly get any output below 40hz if I choose the length wall. Isn't that where you feel the couch shaking bass in that range?
You can measure at any distance from the front wall across the width of the room. In your case, probably behind the couch but if you can move the couch further from the wall then you might try that as well.
jkasanic is offline  
post #14133 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 05:07 PM
Senior Member
 
mattdub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
You can measure at any distance from the front wall across the width of the room. In your case, probably behind the couch but if you can move the couch further from the wall then you might try that as well.
Im sorry but im not following. Could you please clarify? I have one red circle on the front wall and one on the side. Are you saying I should try along the midpoints of each wall to the left and right of those circles? And thanks for the suggestions so far. I think I'm starting to understand the graphs you posted
mattdub1 is online now  
post #14134 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 05:37 PM
AVS Special Member
 
jkasanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
Im sorry but im not following. Could you please clarify? I have one red circle on the front wall and one on the side. Are you saying I should try along the midpoints of each wall to the left and right of those circles? And thanks for the suggestions so far. I think I'm starting to understand the graphs you posted
I'm on my phone so I can't modify your pictures but what I'm saying is you need to try measuring across the width of your room. Since your couch is kind of in the middle of the room and you likely don't want your sub siting in the middle of the floor, you can measure along the back of your couch or slide the couch along the length dimension of the room and do the same. The benefit of changing the position of the couch in this case is two-fold, the MLP as well as the distance of your sub from front wall.
jkasanic is offline  
post #14135 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 10:03 PM
AVS Special Member
 
lovingdvd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 9,648
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 683 Post(s)
Liked: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
Might as well get the UMIK-1 if you're contemplating a miniDSP. The EMM-6 is not a USB mic so it requires a sound card (i.e. Legacy REW setup). There are some pros and cons to using the USB setup but this thread is dedicated to it. I don't know about the CM-140.
My understanding is that the DDRC-88A comes with the UMIK-1 mic, right? So for those planning to get the 88A we should not purchase the UMIK-1 in advance correct?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
The mic can also serve as the SPL if you have the sens factor in your cal file. The separate SPL meter is used to calibrate the mic otherwise.
And from what I can tell from Jerry's guide, if I buy the DDRC-88A I can then download the cal file using the serial number, and this cal file will include the sens factor (unlike mics bought from another manufacturer). Do I have this correct? Thanks.
lovingdvd is online now  
post #14136 of 14546 Old 03-21-2015, 10:35 PM
Senior Member
 
mattdub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
I'm on my phone so I can't modify your pictures but what I'm saying is you need to try measuring across the width of your room. Since your couch is kind of in the middle of the room and you likely don't want your sub siting in the middle of the floor, you can measure along the back of your couch or slide the couch along the length dimension of the room and do the same. The benefit of changing the position of the couch in this case is two-fold, the MLP as well as the distance of your sub from front wall.
I apologize but I'm still not understanding. When you said to measure along the width of the wall, I thought you meant to keep the sub close to the front width wall and go L/R in one ft increments, and measure from the mlp. And, I should also vary the distance of the couch/mlp from the front width wall...are these assumptions correct?
I'm getting caught in the part about the length wall and behind the couch. Are you saying I should put the sub right behind the couch and move the sub left/right from the center of the room?
Thx
mattdub1 is online now  
post #14137 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 04:31 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jkasanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
My understanding is that the DDRC-88A comes with the UMIK-1 mic, right? So for those planning to get the 88A we should not purchase the UMIK-1 in advance correct?



And from what I can tell from Jerry's guide, if I buy the DDRC-88A I can then download the cal file using the serial number, and this cal file will include the sens factor (unlike mics bought from another manufacturer). Do I have this correct? Thanks.
You can buy the DDRC-88A without the mic for $70 less.

All UMIK-1 mics come from miniDSP. CSL calibrates the UMIK-1 for the 90 degree position (among others) that we typically use to take measurements where I believe the cal file from miniDSP is for the 0 position BICBW. HST, Jerry has posted some measurements showing the difference is limited to the higher frequencies.

EDIT: just saw your post in the 88A thread. If miniDSP is including the 90 degree cal file then I would just get the mic included with it.

Last edited by jkasanic; 03-22-2015 at 04:46 AM.
jkasanic is offline  
post #14138 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 04:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jkasanic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,381
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 177 Post(s)
Liked: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
I apologize but I'm still not understanding. When you said to measure along the width of the wall, I thought you meant to keep the sub close to the front width wall and go L/R in one ft increments, and measure from the mlp. And, I should also vary the distance of the couch/mlp from the front width wall...are these assumptions correct?
I'm getting caught in the part about the length wall and behind the couch. Are you saying I should put the sub right behind the couch and move the sub left/right from the center of the room?
Thx
You are overthinking this. All I said was you needed to measure across the width of your "room". The most likely locations would be the front wall (not possible except for current location and one other), back wall, or behind your couch. The point of this is to confirm the 40-60 Hz dip is from a width mode (in your case the first order width mode). If you find a spot that minimizes this dip then you can experiment with moving your sub (and couch) along the length dimension of the room (moving it closer or further from your front wall). Since your MLP is 14ft from wall, I would try moving it 2-2.5ft closer. The tighter spacing means a change of just a couple inches can make a big difference at one point (your MLP).
mattdub1 likes this.
jkasanic is offline  
post #14139 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 09:46 AM
AVS Special Member
 
cfraser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto area, Canada
Posts: 1,428
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
^
3' is too far away. Isn't the driver of the PC13-Ultra mounted at the ceiling facing side of the tube? The specs says the sub is 47" inch tall so the driver would be actually above your ears. Put it directly behind your couch or seat, plug the ports, run EQ and enjoy.
I know this is well OT... The driver is at the bottom of the cylinder, facing downwards to a solid baseplate. The 3 (plugged in my case) ports are at the top of the cylinder. That's kind of what I meant that the driver would be ~3' away from my ears vertically, below them. This was more of an option to try, it is probably too inconvenient (other seats!) for me to use regularly. I think the sub weighs 90+ lbs; whatever it is, it's not nearly as easy to move around as you might think a cylinder would be...it's slippery and nothing non-rounded to grab!
cfraser is offline  
post #14140 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 09:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
^
Then simply turn the sub upside down - holes get plugged and driver is near ear height.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14141 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 10:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 1,865
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Just a question on 2 or more subs. (I have only one now, but just curious based on future plan).
How do you measure raw (non-REQ engaged) response of all subs together using REW?
Do you do it one by one and overlay to get an average
or
Take measurement when all subs are powerd on
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #14142 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 10:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Just a question on 2 or more subs. (I have only one now, but just curious based on future plan).
How do you measure raw (non-REQ engaged) response of all subs together using REW?
Depends on what you're interested in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Do you do it one by one and overlay to get an average
If you want to see how all subs perform as one you can NOT do this without a loopback measurement. That's the main drawback of using a USB mic like the UMIK-1. So you have to do it like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
Take measurement when all subs are powerd on

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole

Last edited by markus767; 03-22-2015 at 11:12 AM.
markus767 is online now  
post #14143 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 10:58 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,438
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked: 1211
AustinJerry is offline  
post #14144 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 11:11 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
^
Pardon?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14145 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 12:26 PM
AVS Special Member
 
aaranddeeman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Lover's State
Posts: 1,865
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked: 122
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
^ Example of an obfuscation, Markus.
Yes. I am lots on what he has to say.
Is the second question answer to my first (is that what he is saying)
aaranddeeman is offline  
post #14146 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 12:58 PM
AVS Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked: 153
it seemed pretty clear to me. He's saying that you can only take measurements one by one and then accurately sum them later if you use a loopback for timing reference. If you don't have a loopback, e.g. use a USB mic, then the only way is to actually measure them all playing at once. Accurately setting up multiple subs is a lot easier with a loopback for sure as you can do most of it offline.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #14147 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 01:40 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
^
Exactly.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14148 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 01:50 PM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,438
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked: 1211
Except the way Matt explained it, it was perfectly clear. When you explained it, I had to read it several times, and still wasn't clear as to what you were saying. That is why I called it an obfuscation. I don't mean any disrespect, I am just saying you should phrase your feedback so that is a little more clear.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #14149 of 14546 Old 03-22-2015, 01:57 PM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
^
Then simply ask but don't call it "obfuscation". Sounds like I would have done it on purpose

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14150 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 02:50 AM
AVS Special Member
 
steveting99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 1,436
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Liked: 208
^markus,

Appreciate the feedback and generosity in sharing your knowledge here, but sometimes your response isn't so clear as Jerry pointed out. Matt has in depth knowledge and experience to understand what your saying, but most of us common folks do not.

This thread is dedicated in using USB mic with REW, so the use of a loopback for timing reference isn't doable for now. I don't see the point of bring this up in the thread. Just my opinion.

Maranatz SR-7009, Oppo BPD-93, MTV 7000D, LG LW6500, aTV, WDTV Live, Harmony 650 remote, KEF E301, MiniDSP(2x4), Rythmik F12G
steveting99 is online now  
post #14151 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 03:56 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
^markus,

Appreciate the feedback and generosity in sharing your knowledge here, but sometimes your response isn't so clear as Jerry pointed out. Matt has in depth knowledge and experience to understand what your saying, but most of us common folks do not.
Then simply ask. Nobody will bite you Don't let your ego get in the way of your curiosity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
This thread is dedicated in using USB mic with REW, so the use of a loopback for timing reference isn't doable for now. I don't see the point of bring this up in the thread. Just my opinion.
I think it's very important to know (and understand) what the limitations of using a single channel USB mic are. Isn't this what the thread is about?
3ll3d00d, Audionut11 and andyc56 like this.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14152 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 04:54 AM
AVS Special Member
 
3ll3d00d's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,122
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 566 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
This thread is dedicated in using USB mic with REW, so the use of a loopback for timing reference isn't doable for now. I don't see the point of bring this up in the thread. Just my opinion.
this is a long and sprawling thread that covers a great many topics not directly related to REW setup or even USB mics directly. This means there's a grey area when it comes to considering whether something is on topic or not. I think everyone would agree that detailed instructions [on how to use loopback and/or set up REW to use it & the equipment required] would be considered off topic. I don't think mentioning its existence is off topic at all *especially* when a question is asked that (indirectly) addresses one of the advantages of an analogue mic.

To give an example, the exchange could have gone like this

Q: Can I measure subs separately with a USB mic
A: No, HTH

the OP walks away with their question answered but having learnt nothing more, alternatively

Q: Can I measure subs separately with a USB mic
A: No but you can with a loopback

The OP walks away with their question answered and horizons potentially broadened. For example you might then ask "why can't I use a usb mic?" and then you go into the issue with the quality of accurate timing data when using different clocks for DA and AD. Alternatively, and more on topic, the discussion might go into what it means to sum responses and hence what phase is, why it matters & how it affects multiple speakers playing together. You might then go into a discussion of strategies that you can use instead with a USB mic with a deeper understanding how how things work.

As Markus says/implies, this thread should be about learning as well as just answering factual questions. FWIW a substantial chunk of what I know on this subject has been derived from asking such questions and engaging in the discussion that follows from broader & more expansive replies than I might have expected.
AustinJerry, ahblaza and andyc56 like this.
3ll3d00d is online now  
post #14153 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 05:28 AM
AVS Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 6,404
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1583 Post(s)
Liked: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
Q: Can I measure subs separately with a USB mic
A: No but you can with a loopback

The OP walks away with their question answered and horizons potentially broadened. For example you might then ask "why can't I use a usb mic?" and then you go into the issue with the quality of accurate timing data when using different clocks for DA and AD. Alternatively, and more on topic, the discussion might go into what it means to sum responses and hence what phase is, why it matters & how it affects multiple speakers playing together. You might then go into a discussion of strategies that you can use instead with a USB mic with a deeper understanding how how things work.
Wouldn't that be great But people want simple and terminal answers. Such a thing only exists in religion but never in science.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is online now  
post #14154 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 05:36 AM
Senior Member
 
DaveyMac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 213
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 133 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Forgive what I know has prob been asked a million times. I just read posts here for an hour and didnt see a definitive answer:


What do I need to go purchase to use REW? I have ht system. I have a fairly robust gaming laptop, so I'm assuming it has adequate sound card? Do I just need a mic? I have Audyssey mic, will that work? If not, is there a mic on Amazon that would be good? Should I purchase anything else?
DaveyMac is offline  
post #14155 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 05:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 9,438
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked: 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Forgive what I know has prob been asked a million times. I just read posts here for an hour and didnt see a definitive answer:


What do I need to go purchase to use REW? I have ht system. I have a fairly robust gaming laptop, so I'm assuming it has adequate sound card? Do I just need a mic? I have Audyssey mic, will that work? If not, is there a mic on Amazon that would be good? Should I purchase anything else?
I believe your questions are answered in detail in the beginning pages of the REW Guide linked in my signature. To summarize, you will need a laptop with an HDMI connection (most newer laptops will have one). A windows laptop will likely provide an easier path than a Mac. Next, you will need a USB microphone and a stand to hold it while taking measurements. The Guide specifies the recommended mics. And finally, you will need a couple of cables to hook everything together. The REW software is free, of course, and the rest of the kit will cost in the neighborhood of $100-$150, assuming you already have the laptop.
ahblaza likes this.
AustinJerry is offline  
post #14156 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 07:12 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 5,534
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 571 Post(s)
Liked: 422
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The REW software is free, of course,...
They do, of course, accept donations:
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/#donations

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #14157 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 08:33 AM
Senior Member
 
mattdub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jkasanic View Post
You are overthinking this. All I said was you needed to measure across the width of your "room". The most likely locations would be the front wall (not possible except for current location and one other), back wall, or behind your couch. The point of this is to confirm the 40-60 Hz dip is from a width mode (in your case the first order width mode). If you find a spot that minimizes this dip then you can experiment with moving your sub (and couch) along the length dimension of the room (moving it closer or further from your front wall). Since your MLP is 14ft from wall, I would try moving it 2-2.5ft closer. The tighter spacing means a change of just a couple inches can make a big difference at one point (your MLP).
So I went on a rampage yesterday for about 3-4 hours diligently trying different sub locations. I tried all the locations I have available to me, and varied the way the driver was facing in each location. I narrowed down the best spots on the length wall (35ft wall), and then tried variations of spots on the front wall (width wall) to gather the best curves I could get for comparison. I also tried measuring one foot right and left of the MLP, as suggested, and it did seem to raise the 50hz dip when I move the MLP one foot to the right, but then I seem to get a dip at 70-100 hz from doing that. I also varied the spacing of the couch from the front wall as suggested. In some sub positions it helped a bit, and with some sub positions it made response worse. I just can't find a great balance in my PITA room.

I analyzed and compiled the best curves I could get to see what you guys think. Which do you think is the best in my case?
First graph
Blue line= midway on length wall w/couch 12 ft from front wall
Red line= left of my left front tower, driver facing couch
purple line= right in front of my couch facing front wall on the length wall
green line= front left corner, driver facing into wall (about 1.5ft away)
teal line=front left corner, facing the side of my left tower

In my untrained opinion, I think either the blue line or one of the two green lines might be best. the second graph is a compare of just those three. The downside of the blue line is that I seem to lose a lot of SPL in the lower frequencies. In the front corner, I get the highest/flattest lower end SPL but the upper range doesn't look that good, and I have that dip at 50hz. Since my towers will be helping in the mid/upper range, would it be better to take the best low end response and let the towers help fill in the mid/upper range?
The third graph attached is one of the corner positions plus the LR towers, which I didn't think looked all that bad when combined (at least up to 100hz), but I could be wrong. Thanks
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Compare of best positions.jpg
Views:	200
Size:	81.5 KB
ID:	620321   Click image for larger version

Name:	blue vs green.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	64.6 KB
ID:	620329   Click image for larger version

Name:	LR+sub no audyssey, corner.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	51.2 KB
ID:	620337  
mattdub1 is online now  
post #14158 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 09:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Matt, you should run ALL the subs and mains to look at the low end. Directionality isnt a factor much below 100hz, so where the components are that produce those range of frequencies (<100hz) isnt significant. What is is the overall response at the listening position. And all the sources will be driven when your listening, so they should all be in play when measuring. Yes, there is value in measuring each component (speaker/sub) separately. But your final analysis should take into account how it will be heard when listening.

With this in mind, crossover points can be overlapped or gapped somewhat between different sources if it produces the desired curve. Likewise, the timing of each (distance setting) can be varied a bit as well.

My Room
My Music
Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next
jim19611961 is offline  
post #14159 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 10:06 AM
Senior Member
 
mattdub1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 288
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 147 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Matt, you should run ALL the subs and mains to look at the low end. Directionality isnt a factor much below 100hz, so where the components are that produce those range of frequencies (<100hz) isnt significant. What is is the overall response at the listening position. And all the sources will be driven when your listening, so they should all be in play when measuring. Yes, there is value in measuring each component (speaker/sub) separately. But your final analysis should take into account how it will be heard when listening.

With this in mind, crossover points can be overlapped or gapped somewhat between different sources if it produces the desired curve. Likewise, the timing of each (distance setting) can be varied a bit as well.
so you are saying I should have taken all my measurements with the speakers and sub playing the tones together? I was told that in order to find the best sub placement, I should run the sweeps on hdmi ch 4 which is sub only, with the LPF for LFE in the avr set to 250. Taking into account that the speakers are going to help fill in the midbass/upper bass, and they are not capable of playing under 40hz, is my assumption correct that with sub placement, I should focus on highest/smoothest spl at the lower frequencies?
mattdub1 is online now  
post #14160 of 14546 Old 03-23-2015, 10:17 AM
AVS Special Member
 
jim19611961's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,585
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 267 Post(s)
Liked: 98
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattdub1 View Post
so you are saying I should have taken all my measurements with the speakers and sub playing the tones together? I was told that in order to find the best sub placement, I should run the sweeps on hdmi ch 4 which is sub only, with the LPF for LFE in the avr set to 250. Taking into account that the speakers are going to help fill in the midbass/upper bass, and they are not capable of playing under 40hz, is my assumption correct that with sub placement, I should focus on highest/smoothest spl at the lower frequencies?
For initial sub placement determination, what you are doing is fine. But, you should run EVERYTHING after trying a position to see how all the sources interact. Sometimes the best placement for the sub running by itself turns out not to be the best when everything else is running with it.

So what I am recommending is that at every spot where you take a measurement of the sub by itself, take another with all the other sources running also.
ahblaza likes this.

My Room
My Music
Rega - Apollo, Rega - DAC, Goldpoint Passive, (2) Classe CA-100 bridged power amps (350w)
Jenzen Next
jim19611961 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off