Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 478 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14311 of 14319 Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I don't adjust the crossover, which for me has remained fixed at 80Hz for quite some time. There is a transition from sub to main speaker that occurs over a range around the crossover point, and I am looking for a smoothness in that area. There is an excellent write-up on the sub distance tweaking procedure--if you haven't read it, you probably should.

The Dirac calibration does not need to be re-run. Remember, Dirac knows nothing about crossover values in the AVR. Tweaking the AVR sub distance setting is simply adding to the delay already established by Dirac, which is exactly what the intention is.
Interesting you say that. I was just now reading Paul Spencer's EXCELLENT article on Bass Integration here http://www.hifizine.com/2012/06/bass...-guide-part-3/ . He talks about how in some cases you can leverage the lower bass response in the mains to help smooth out nulls in the lower end (down to a certain hz of course).

On that page he talks about a "high pass filter" and states:
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In home theatre systems it is typical for mains to have a high pass at 80 Hz when the speakers are set to “small.” This gives the system greater output and headroom, however, in following this guide one may choose to run the mains lower. As a result, including a high pass filter on the mains is even more important than usual and one might choose a steeper slope to compensate for the added low frequency demands.
I'd like to see if I understand this correctly... When he talks about the high pass filter, he is talking about setting the cross over point in the AVR or preprocessor right? So for example he is suggesting that if someone has say a null at 70hz in the sub but not in the mains, using a cross over lower than 80hz may help with that null, yes?

This brings up a related question - on an AVR or a preprocessor like the Marantz 8802, when you set the L/C/R speakers to SMALL, does it then not take into account the crossover point and instead cross it at 80hz, or perhaps even higher? In which case if you want to use Paul's suggested trick you'd have to set the L/C/R to Large then? In my case I am planning Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs. I think these are rated to 50 hz but are bookshelf-like speakers as opposed to towers. In that case would these speakers typically be set to large or small?

Edit: These Triads seem to be rated down to 50hz, not 40.

Last edited by lovingdvd; Yesterday at 11:19 PM.
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post #14312 of 14319 Old Today, 02:50 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
...

This brings up a related question - on an AVR or a preprocessor like the Marantz 8802, when you set the L/C/R speakers to SMALL, does it then not take into account the crossover point and instead cross it at 80hz, or perhaps even higher? In which case if you want to use Paul's suggested trick you'd have to set the L/C/R to Large then? In my case I am planning Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs. I think these are rated to 50 hz but are bookshelf-like speakers as opposed to towers. In that case would these speakers typically be set to large or small?

Edit: These Triads seem to be rated down to 50hz, not 40.
When you set the speakers to LARGE on the pre/pro/receiver there is possibility that the bass management will mix the LFE channel (the 0.1) into the front left and front right speakers. I.e. no sub in the setup.

Are you sure your front left and front right speaker is capable handling those low bass frequencies?

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post #14313 of 14319 Old Today, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
And, if you send the same signal to left and right channels simultaneously, which is the case with mono bass, the signal comes out of the center channel.
No. If there's bass in L and R it comes out of the left and right speaker, not the center.

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post #14314 of 14319 Old Today, 05:26 AM
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Okay, here's the FR.
Red : No Audyssey
Green : Audyssey no DEQ
Blue : Audyssey w/ DEQ

I know it's not pretty looking. (Room is not treated). Any advice to improve this FR is appreciated.

Any suggestions please?
(Actually to me it sounds a bit excess bass when I listen so I am going to work on reducing sub trim to a comfortable level.)
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post #14315 of 14319 Old Today, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Interesting you say that. I was just now reading Paul Spencer's EXCELLENT article on Bass Integration here http://www.hifizine.com/2012/06/bass...-guide-part-3/ . He talks about how in some cases you can leverage the lower bass response in the mains to help smooth out nulls in the lower end (down to a certain hz of course).

On that page he talks about a "high pass filter" and states:


I'd like to see if I understand this correctly... When he talks about the high pass filter, he is talking about setting the cross over point in the AVR or preprocessor right? So for example he is suggesting that if someone has say a null at 70hz in the sub but not in the mains, using a cross over lower than 80hz may help with that null, yes?

This brings up a related question - on an AVR or a preprocessor like the Marantz 8802, when you set the L/C/R speakers to SMALL, does it then not take into account the crossover point and instead cross it at 80hz, or perhaps even higher? In which case if you want to use Paul's suggested trick you'd have to set the L/C/R to Large then? In my case I am planning Triad Gold Monitors or LCRs. I think these are rated to 50 hz but are bookshelf-like speakers as opposed to towers. In that case would these speakers typically be set to large or small?

Edit: These Triads seem to be rated down to 50hz, not 40.
I certainly encourage you to experiment to find the best crossover for your setup. I did that long ago, and now that I have settled on 80Hz, and as long as there are not major changes in my equipment or where things are placed, I don't need to re-visit crossover settings with each calibration.

When speakers are set to large in the AVR or pre-pro, a crossover cannot be selected.
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post #14316 of 14319 Old Today, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
No. If there's bass in L and R it comes out of the left and right speaker, not the center.
I am specifically referring to identical signals coming into the AVR when the AVR is in PLII mode. Such signals are reproduced in the center channel.
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post #14317 of 14319 Old Today, 06:36 AM
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Correct. Wasn't aware you were talking about PLII specifically.

Markus

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post #14318 of 14319 Old Today, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by steveting99 View Post
When you set the speakers to LARGE on the pre/pro/receiver there is possibility that the bass management will mix the LFE channel (the 0.1) into the front left and front right speakers. I.e. no sub in the setup.

Are you sure your front left and front right speaker is capable handling those low bass frequencies?
Does setting the speakers to large vs small have any affect on bass that is NOT in the 0.1 channel? Yes I am pretty sure these speakers can handle those low bass frequencies. See http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/irglcr.html . Spec says "50 Hz - 20 kHz (+/-3dB)" - assuming that's accurate does it mean it can handle down to 50 Hz no problem? Should a speaker like this typically set to Large even in a room with multiple subwoofers (assuming the additional bass from the mains could still help to smooth out the bass response)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
...When speakers are set to large in the AVR or pre-pro, a crossover cannot be selected.
Got it, thanks. So for the technique that Paul Spencer mentions about leveraging the bass of the mains to help smooth low frequencies (in rooms that can benefit from this), one would need to set the front channel speakers to Small and then lower the cross over from 80 to whatever lower xo is needed (according to their measurements) to get additional bass to help smooth the response in the low end, say 60 hz for example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I am specifically referring to identical signals coming into the AVR when the AVR is in PLII mode. Such signals are reproduced in the center channel.
Oh I see - thanks for clarifying. I do not use PLII mode. What about other modes such as 2 channel stereo for music listening, DTS-HD MA, DD 5.1 and Atmos?
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post #14319 of 14319 Unread Today, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Does setting the speakers to large vs small have any affect on bass that is NOT in the 0.1 channel? Yes I am pretty sure these speakers can handle those low bass frequencies. See http://www.triadspeakers.com/products/irglcr.html . Spec says "50 Hz - 20 kHz (+/-3dB)" - assuming that's accurate does it mean it can handle down to 50 Hz no problem? Should a speaker like this typically set to Large even in a room with multiple subwoofers (assuming the additional bass from the mains could still help to smooth out the bass response)?



Got it, thanks. So for the technique that Paul Spencer mentions about leveraging the bass of the mains to help smooth low frequencies (in rooms that can benefit from this), one would need to set the front channel speakers to Small and then lower the cross over from 80 to whatever lower xo is needed (according to their measurements) to get additional bass to help smooth the response in the low end, say 60 hz for example.



Oh I see - thanks for clarifying. I do not use PLII mode. What about other modes such as 2 channel stereo for music listening, DTS-HD MA, DD 5.1 and Atmos?
Setting your speakers to large will, of course, prevent the re-direction of bass to the subs. There is a wealth of information suggesting that setting speakers to large for systems which have one or more subs, and which is used to listen to movies as well as music, is not a good idea. I suppose you are familiar with the arguments? It applies to high-quality, bass-capable speakers as well as modest ones.

If you listen to two-channel music in stereo mode, bass above the crossover goes to the left and right channels, and to the sub below the crossover. Same for discrete multi-channel content. What is your point?
Whether lowering the crossover produces smoother bass is certainly worth an experiment.
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