Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 487 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14581 of 15407 Old 04-26-2015, 02:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Question for those of you with a minidsp:

Do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after you run Audyssey?
There's some guidance in this thread about that but you may be better served asking that question in the Audyssey thread.

Quote:
With multiple subs, do you measure and address each sub separately? OR do you measure BOTH subs and apply the same peak taming filters to each?
IIRC, you're supposed to measure and correct them all together. You can use REW to generate the minidsp filters necessary.
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post #14582 of 15407 Old 04-26-2015, 03:03 PM
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Rew new version

What are thoughts on this new version of REW, should I install it?

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...-new-post.html
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post #14583 of 15407 Old 04-26-2015, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveyMac View Post
Do you tame peaks with minidsp before or after you run Audyssey?
Tame peaks before if you need to, give audyssey less to do. Shape before and/or after depending on preference and subs.
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post #14584 of 15407 Old 04-26-2015, 04:08 PM
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I've been playing around with acoustical treatments for a while. Any comments or issues with these plots?

Note I stopped after 40dB down from the peak on the waterfall plots. Is it really possible to get 300 ms or less 60dB down from the peak?

My room is very odd shaped as shown.
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post #14585 of 15407 Old 04-26-2015, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
I've been playing around with acoustical treatments for a while. Any comments or issues with these plots?

Note I stopped after 40dB down from the peak on the waterfall plots. Is it really possible to get 300 ms or less 60dB down from the peak?

My room is very odd shaped as shown.
The measurements look pretty good. Not a surprise, give the amount of treatments you have on the walls. What brand treatments are those, and what are they made of?
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post #14586 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
I've been playing around with acoustical treatments for a while. Any comments or issues with these plots?

Note I stopped after 40dB down from the peak on the waterfall plots. Is it really possible to get 300 ms or less 60dB down from the peak?

My room is very odd shaped as shown.
I like a look at the mdat's.

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post #14587 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:12 AM
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The foam is 4" thick acoustic foam from ATS.

The black treatments are: 48" soffit bass traps from GIK acoustics (qty 8), 48"x24" full range monster bass traps from GIK (qty 6)

There's also about 26 poly filled standard pillows you can't see. These are at the front of the room surrounding the 8th GIK soffit trap installed below the screen. The trap and pillows are between and behind the two subs and surround the center stand which is composed of solid 4" cinder blocks/pavers. All this is covered with a big piece of black felt.

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The measurements look pretty good. Not a surprise, give the amount of treatments you have on the walls. What brand treatments are those, and what are they made of?

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post #14588 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:13 AM
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What is the size limit for files here? I can post it later, but it's over 20MB for all channels.

Do you have any experience with an odd shaped room like mine with canted ceilings? It seems my canted ceilings really mess up the imaging (e.g. impulse and etc plot). It took me a while to figure out mounting the three 24"x48" panels in the middle of the canted ceiling could reduce a 4.7ms peak below -15dB.

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I like a look at the mdat's.

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post #14589 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
What is the size limit for files here? I can post it later, but it's over 20MB for all channels.

Do you have any experience with an odd shaped room like mine with canted ceilings? It seems my canted ceilings really mess up the imaging (e.g. impulse and etc plot). It took me a while to figure out mounting the three 24"x48" panels in the middle of the canted ceiling could reduce a 4.7ms peak below -15dB.
You will have to either zip them or use dropbox (or some other offsite link). Mdat file types cant be posted here (I still get annoyed by this).

What you showed and the way you showed your measurements doesnt tell me what I want to know, which is why I requested the mdat's. Measurement analysis doesnt depend on room configuration. But treatment does certainly.

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post #14590 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:28 AM
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No problem. I can attempt to post them later tonight for you. For my learning purposes, what measurements are you looking for and why? Thanks!

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What you showed and the way you showed your measurements doesnt tell me what I want to know

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post #14591 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
No problem. I can attempt to post them later tonight for you. For my learning purposes, what measurements are you looking for and why? Thanks!
1) Your frequency response has 20db vertical increments. I like 5db. And for full range, I use 1/24th or 1/48th octave smoothing.
2) I like ETC over impulse
3) I like to look at ETC bands
4) Decay at 150ms
5) Spectrogram with different control parameters
6) Distortion graphs
7) GD

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post #14592 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 08:56 AM
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This is an interesting idea. I'd assume you only do this for higher frequencies and not anything below 300 Hz?

One thing you'll see when you use windowing on the impulse plot is some 1kHz * n noise. I don't know where this noise comes from and suspect it's the USB mic's preamp? It shows up even in the subwoofer plots too with the 7 channel amp turned off, laptop power cord unplugged, etc... I've also tried two different laptops. It could also be a coincidence of windowing for all I know. I vaguely remember a sync function ( sin (x)/x ) being related to windowing when I took some DSP courses in college that used FFTs. This was years ago though.

If you could look at this too after I post the file that'd be great!

Thanks again.

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3) I like to look at ETC bands

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post #14593 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
This is an interesting idea. I'd assume you only do this for higher frequencies and not anything below 300 Hz?
Yes and No.

No) I like to plot them together like the following graph. It gives me insight to how evenly everything is decaying.

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Yes) For early reflection analysis, I usually start around 315hz and often use 1/3.
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post #14594 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 03:35 PM
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Here's the mdat file (you'll have unzip it though):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1J...ew?usp=sharing

Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
You will have to either zip them or use dropbox (or some other offsite link). Mdat file types cant be posted here (I still get annoyed by this).

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post #14595 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 03:56 PM
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Here's the mdat file (you'll have unzip it though):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B1J...ew?usp=sharing

Thanks in advance!
I couldnt open the file. Could you use something other than Google Drive?

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post #14596 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 04:32 PM
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Did you click the arrow to download (see attached screenshot)? I just tried it using internet explorer and had no problem.


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I couldnt open the file. Could you use something other than Google Drive?
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post #14597 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 04:42 PM
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Did you click the arrow to download (see attached screenshot)? I just tried it using internet explorer and had no problem.
Yes, I went through 3 or 4 hoops and at the end, it had an "open with" option, but REW wasnt listed. Then it wanted to search all over the net or add programs to Google Chrome or something.

Ill be glad to look and advise, but it needs to be a one click download. Simple, in other words.

Go over to https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/ where you can upload the mdats directly. Start a new topic there or something.

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post #14598 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 04:55 PM
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Sorry, here's one on my microsoft onedrive: http://1drv.ms/1dmovlV

EDIT: see below. LastButNotLeast posted it to dropbox.

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Yes, I went through 3 or 4 hoops and at the end, it had an "open with" option, but REW wasnt listed. Then it wanted to search all over the net or add programs to Google Chrome or something.

Ill be glad to look and advise, but it needs to be a one click download. Simple, in other words.

Go over to https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/ where you can upload the mdats directly. Start a new topic there or something.

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Last edited by etc6849; 04-27-2015 at 05:03 PM.
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post #14599 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 04:57 PM
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Here's a copy in my Dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tdeebfowui...inal.mdat?dl=0
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post #14600 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 05:19 PM
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etc6849, a few things jump out to me. (these are from what is labeled "left audyssey flat")

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The distortion graph shows some places of unusually high distortion, especially in the 2-3k area.



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Here is the FR. A few pretty big swings. look around 1800hz



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Spectrogram. See those "flares" ? Some early reflection issues.
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post #14601 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 05:41 PM
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This is a neat use of the spectrogram plot. I'm guessing fixing this would improve clarity a little (while the impulse/etc plots helped me improve imaging)?

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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Attachment 690337
Spectrogram. See those "flares" ? Some early reflection issues.

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post #14602 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 05:50 PM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
This is a neat use of the spectrogram plot. I'm guessing fixing this would improve clarity a little (while the impulse/etc plots helped me improve imaging)?
There is a lot of overlap in what the different graphs show. To some degree, ETC, Decay, Waterfalls and Spectrograms show the same data. Just in different ways. A lot of analysis is simply getting each crafted to see most clearly what your focusing on. Once done, analysis is a whole lot easier.

Fixing early high gain reflections help everything IMO. Clarity and Imaging among them.

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post #14603 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 06:31 PM
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I plotted some old measurements from April 4th of the left channel before the 48"x24" cloud panels (qty 3) plus an additional panel by the door. I also moved the speakers out a little. I have also moved the speakers close to the MLP and aimed them since then.

What I have now is a big improvement (and does sound better) than before.

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Fixing early high gain reflections help everything IMO. Clarity and Imaging among them.
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post #14604 of 15407 Old 04-27-2015, 09:48 PM
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I am playing with Equalizer-APO software on my HTPC and planning to use it to eq my front three speakers with subs. Should I eq my left and right speakers with subs together using left and right plus subs measurement or should I eq the left+subs and right+subs separately? Thank you.
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post #14605 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 06:50 AM
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I am playing with Equalizer-APO software on my HTPC and planning to use it to eq my front three speakers with subs. Should I eq my left and right speakers with subs together using left and right plus subs measurement or should I eq the left+subs and right+subs separately? Thank you.
Not sure if your question is what speakers to apply the EQ to or which speakers should be measured.

Much depends on what frequencies your planning to boost or cut.

For measurement, I like to run all mains and subs for looking at the bass response. L+subs/R+subs when looking at full range.

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post #14606 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 09:41 AM
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Quick Help - so if most of the regulars on this thread remember, you've all been helping me get things fine tuned. My waterfall is "under control" and I have a odd shaped open room, yet it seems to be fairly under control.


Below are Waterfall and ETC to reflect (no pun) that fact (I think).


PROBLEM or NO PROBLEM...meaning am I crazy or is this expected. Now that I am dial in, it seems that everything is quieter, meaning I watched Interstellar last night, and I ran it a -5 to reference and while it was Loud, it did not make my ears bleed. Same thing happened with another movie....


Could it be that a properly controlled room requires more power, my thought is that because the room is not boomy, or reflective that I am hearing direct, clean sound and this is all totally normal. I was afraid that my Audyssey calibration might have gone wacked, but it all checks out.


Any input is appreciated, and any science that I can use to measure this so I can fully understand - please share. HOPEFULLY this all makes sense.


I think that might be a seat reflection - but not sure it is causing the issue I am posting about.

Great job! Regarding your feeling like bass isn't loud or full enough, the solution is a "house curve". See this: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ed-how-do.html . Does this help?

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The foam is 4" thick acoustic foam from ATS.

The black treatments are: 48" soffit bass traps from GIK acoustics (qty 8), 48"x24" full range monster bass traps from GIK (qty 6)

There's also about 26 poly filled standard pillows you can't see. These are at the front of the room surrounding the 8th GIK soffit trap installed below the screen. The trap and pillows are between and behind the two subs and surround the center stand which is composed of solid 4" cinder blocks/pavers. All this is covered with a big piece of black felt.
Very impressive treatments. I am curious - did you design what treatments to use and where they should go yourself? Really well done - kudos.

[quote=jim19611961;33810177]Yes and No.

No) I like to plot them together like the following graph. It gives me insight to how evenly everything is decaying.

Attachment 688913

[quote]
What is the a graph of exactly?

Quote:
Yes) For early reflection analysis, I usually start around 315hz and often use 1/3.
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post #14607 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 09:45 AM
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No) I like to plot them together like the following graph. It gives me insight to how evenly everything is decaying.

Attachment 688913


What is the a graph of exactly?
R+subs

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post #14608 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 09:48 AM
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I just looked at the sabins versus frequency plots and bought the biggest bang for the buck between GIK and ATS. I think it'd be easy to build panels on your own though for much less. I also picked placements by doing before and after trial measurements.

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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
Very impressive treatments. I am curious - did you design what treatments to use and where they should go yourself? Really well done - kudos.

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post #14609 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
etc6849, a few things jump out to me. (these are from what is labeled "left audyssey flat")

Attachment 690353
The distortion graph shows some places of unusually high distortion, especially in the 2-3k area.



Attachment 690345
Here is the FR. A few pretty big swings. look around 1800hz



Attachment 690337
Spectrogram. See those "flares" ? Some early reflection issues.
So I gottta ask, unsmoothed I have a few 10 dB swings up high as well (ok, so his are closer to 15dB)...what is normal or in "range" , and if not what might be the reason behind that ?

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post #14610 of 15407 Old 04-28-2015, 01:35 PM
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[quote=toofast68;33844714][QUOTE=jim19611961;33822633]etc6849, a few things jump out to me. (these are from what is labeled "left audyssey flat")


Attachment 690345
Here is the FR. A few pretty big swings. look around 1800hz

Quote:

So I gottta ask, unsmoothed I have a few 10 dB swings up high as well...is that normal, and if not what might be the reason behind that ?
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