Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 505 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-09-2015, 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by lovingdvd View Post
I bought my from Cross-spectrum.com. The mics were back ordered but I didn't have to wait long, and they processed my order very quickly. They were also very fast to response to some emailed questions. I went with them because they provide a more complete calibration file (wider range) than the MiniDSP one and I suppose it may be slightly more accurate as well. I posted my calibration file from MiniDSP vs CSL by way of a REW analysis a few pages back if anyone is interested.

You may also want to get a boom/mic stand. Its been very handy and worth the $25 (Amazon). If you get a stand and the UMIK-1 is too narrow to fit the thread on the stand, just take out the gold adapter insert that is in the UMIK-1 clamp and it'll fit the larger thread on the boom.
Thanks, I have a pretty nice stand with my XTZ room analyzer. I'm just going to REW so I can auto upload target curve PEQS to minidsp 2x4.
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Old 06-10-2015, 05:20 AM
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Also, this lets you maximize the distance between the rear wall and your ears. If your rear wall is reflective, it should be at least 10 feet from your ears… otherwise it needs treatment (more on this later)."

... From the article, I get the impression that it's really important to avoid sitting near the rear wall, ...
Floyd Toole recommends always treating the rear wall, IIRC, and that has been some of my most effective/satisfying treatments. I use absorption.

I think his current recommendations are lots of diffusion there. In your case shelves full of books might do the trick although they aren't the best diffusors. Or convince observers that your diffusors/absorbers are modern art.
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Old 06-10-2015, 07:04 AM
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Does the Amazon one have the '90 degree cal' file that I've seen being referred to as important?
Yes, both files get downloaded from the MiniDSP site. That was actually something I was confused about when setting everything up on Saturday...Should I be using the 90 degree cal file or the original one?
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Old 06-10-2015, 08:13 AM
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Yes, both files get downloaded from the MiniDSP site. That was actually something I was confused about when setting everything up on Saturday...Should I be using the 90 degree cal file or the original one?
The guide clearly states that the 90-degree file is used. Have you read the guide?
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:07 AM
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The guide clearly states that the 90-degree file is used. Have you read the guide?
I guess I was unclear about when I was confused....I didn't know which one to use because the guide doesn't state to use the 90 degree file until 7 pages after the REW program asks for it.

When I opened REW, it immediately asked me what calibration file to use, since the guide didn't state to use the 90 degree cal file at that point, I guessed at it myself and chose the 90 degree.

Obviously, later in the guide it clearly states when setting up the MIC, to use the 90 degree file.

Forgive me for not skipping around all the pages to find the information initially, I am working with a printed out copy...

I also see it is stated in page 3 of the guide to use the 90 degree file, I clearly forgot/missed this between the 30+ pages between when I had to use the information. I am going to throw the binder away and use the searchable PDF.
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Last edited by SandstormGT; 06-10-2015 at 09:18 AM.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:09 AM
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Floyd Toole recommends always treating the rear wall, IIRC, and that has been some of my most effective/satisfying treatments. I use absorption.

I think his current recommendations are lots of diffusion there. In your case shelves full of books might do the trick although they aren't the best diffusors. Or convince observers that your diffusors/absorbers are modern art.
Bookshelves, at best, may scatter some of the high frequencies (>4k). But this scattering is going to be uneven and unpredictable. Much below 4K, bookshelves neither scatter, diffuse or absorb (much).

Bookshelves, at worst, might be worse than a bare wall because of this uneven and unbalanced high frequency redirection.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:54 AM
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Bookshelves, at best, may scatter some of the high frequencies (>4k). But this scattering is going to be uneven and unpredictable. Much below 4K, bookshelves neither scatter, diffuse or absorb (much).

Bookshelves, at worst, might be worse than a bare wall because of this uneven and unbalanced high frequency redirection.
OK, how about this (completely tongue in cheek ):
Bookshelves filled with "books". The books are actually small slabs of rockwool with acoustically transparent dust jackets.

That way one can seem as erudite as one pleases (Shakespeare? Jacqueline Susann?..)
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Old 06-10-2015, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
I guess I was unclear about when I was confused....I didn't know which one to use because the guide doesn't state to use the 90 degree file until 7 pages after the REW program asks for it.

When I opened REW, it immediately asked me what calibration file to use, since the guide didn't state to use the 90 degree cal file at that point, I guessed at it myself and chose the 90 degree.

Obviously, later in the guide it clearly states when setting up the MIC, to use the 90 degree file.

Forgive me for not skipping around all the pages to find the information initially, I am working with a printed out copy...

I also see it is stated in page 3 of the guide to use the 90 degree file, I clearly forgot/missed this between the 30+ pages between when I had to use the information. I am going to throw the binder away and use the searchable PDF.
Once you get the REW program working right and launch it you won't be asked what cal file to use and if it does happen it will automatically go to the 90 file and just click open. That's what I am accustomed to with 8.1. I don't know how this is affected with other OS's or versions of Windows, probably not at all.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Once you get the REW program working right and launch it you won't be asked what cal file to use and if it does happen it will automatically go to the 90 file and just click open. That's what I am accustomed to with 8.1. I don't know how this is affected with other OS's or versions of Windows, probably not at all.
You are correct, I was simply referring to the first time I opened REW, I was trying to follow line-by-line on the guide and REW had a popup immediately open upon first opening asking me what cal file to use, I didn't see anything about this at the point I was at in the guide, so I just took a stab and used the 90-degree cal file, which after making my way further through the guide, was the right decision.
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Old 06-10-2015, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
You are correct, I was simply referring to the first time I opened REW, I was trying to follow line-by-line on the guide and REW had a popup immediately open upon first opening asking me what cal file to use, I didn't see anything about this at the point I was at in the guide, so I just took a stab and used the 90-degree cal file, which after making my way further through the guide, was the right decision.
Step 16, p. 38, specifies what cal file to use. Even if you had made the wrong selection earlier, you would have corrected yourself in Step 16, I believe.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:21 PM
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Once you get the REW program working right and launch it you won't be asked what cal file to use and if it does happen it will automatically go to the 90 file and just click open. That's what I am accustomed to with 8.1. I don't know how this is affected with other OS's or versions of Windows, probably not at all.
What he's saying is that there are a few points in this process where people get stumped because things don't line up quite 100% with the guide. For example the issue outlined above, and the part where it has you calibrate your mic only to find out pages later that it was not necessary with the UMIK. Perhaps some reorganizing or maybe some side notes would help.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
What he's saying is that there are a few points in this process where people get stumped because things don't line up quite 100% with the guide. For example the issue outlined above, and the part where it has you calibrate your mic only to find out pages later that it was not necessary with the UMIK. Perhaps some reorganizing or maybe some side notes would help.
Do me a favor. Open the current guide revision and go to the section titled "Mic Calibration". Read the note immediately following the title.

"This section deals with manual microphone calibration. If your microphone has a calibration file with a “sensitivity parameter”, manual calibration is not required. Please skip to the section “USB Microphones with Sensitivity parameters: Special Considerations."

It is not like I don't see people's useful feedback and incorporate it into the guide. In return, it would be nice if you didn't bring up the same things over and over again.
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Old 06-10-2015, 02:56 PM
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I'm glad it was updated, Jerry. Your guide has been very helpful.
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Old 06-10-2015, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by SandstormGT View Post
You are correct, I was simply referring to the first time I opened REW, I was trying to follow line-by-line on the guide and REW had a popup immediately open upon first opening asking me what cal file to use, I didn't see anything about this at the point I was at in the guide, so I just took a stab and used the 90-degree cal file, which after making my way further through the guide, was the right decision.
Being a first time beginner using REW I was so intimidated with this program until I spent many weeks on this thread and found Jerry's guide which I believe I would have given up without.
I tried doing one step at a time following Jerry's guide but soon found out it was more frustrating this way.

Reading through the guide first will save you a lot of time and encourage you to proceed, matter of fact I read the trouble shooting section first as I knew I would have so many questions and didn't want to ask here as I was sure they had already been addressed.

Thank you Jerry for all that you have done and continue to do, without you I wouldn't be sharing my experiences in the REW thread.

Cheers Jeff
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Old 06-11-2015, 10:00 AM
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Do me a favor. Open the current guide revision and go to the section titled "Mic Calibration". Read the note immediately following the title.

"This section deals with manual microphone calibration. If your microphone has a calibration file with a “sensitivity parameter”, manual calibration is not required. Please skip to the section “USB Microphones with Sensitivity parameters: Special Considerations."

It is not like I don't see people's useful feedback and incorporate it into the guide. In return, it would be nice if you didn't bring up the same things over and over again.
Sorry to get your blood pressure up, I will no longer post in this thread. Good day.
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Old 06-11-2015, 11:30 AM
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Sorry to get your blood pressure up, I will no longer post in this thread. Good day.
Hey Sands don't take this as an assault against you, it can get frustrating being an author of a guide and constantly answering questions that have already been answered in the guide. Your posts may help someone else in this thread, and we all need help, maybe not all

So hang around, it surely will be beneficial to you, there's a vast amount of knowledge here that you can't get anywhere else.
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:41 PM
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Here are a couple of charts

Subs XT32 Off


Subs XT32 On

LG 65EF9500 / UBD-K8500
AV7702mkII / Model 5000
Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:43 PM
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All Speakers Xt32 On

LG 65EF9500 / UBD-K8500
AV7702mkII / Model 5000
Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-12-2015, 12:45 PM
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Crossover Question:

XT32 sets my mains at large and my center to small and 40. Looking at 60hz and 80hz xover, does it not look like 60hz and small would be a good choice?

XT32 engaged, xovers for mains and center at 60hz


Xovers at 80hz


Here are the speaker set at 40hz




I reduced master volume by 10db when running the subs for the first two charts.

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Old 06-12-2015, 01:39 PM
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Here are a couple of charts

Subs XT32 Off


Subs XT32 On
Just a tip, it would be easier to compare if you overlay them on one graph. It looks like Audyssey is doing a good job flattening your FR in areas not dominated by room nulls.
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:49 PM
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I almost did, but then you get people that didnt want them overlayed. Those are easy enough to compare. One thing about this thread is no one is every happy with your chart layout

But you are right, it did a good job with from 40-90 IMO.

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Old 06-12-2015, 02:19 PM
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I almost did, but then you get people that didnt want them overlayed. Those are easy enough to compare. One thing about this thread is no one is every happy with your chart layout

But you are right, it did a good job with from 40-90 IMO.
You may think that everyone's immediate reaction is that they don't like the graphs as presented. But you should ask yourself the question, "How can I present the data in a way that exhibits the point I am trying to make, or highlights the differences I am asking about?"

So, for example, if you are trying to get feedback regarding what crossover to use, present the same speaker (e.g. the center channel) showing each of the crossover choices. Having all of the measurements overlaid on the same graph highlights the difference slopes and makes the answer more obvious.

Keep trying--your presentation skills will get better!
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Old 06-12-2015, 03:22 PM
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I almost did, but then you get people that didnt want them overlayed. Those are easy enough to compare. One thing about this thread is no one is every happy with your chart layout

But you are right, it did a good job with from 40-90 IMO.
When I first started posting graphs, I got blasted by an unnamed expert for having 2db resolution. I told him that I have no control over it, yet he instated that I can fix it by adjusting the limits (they were already set). The guy got so irate that he basically rage quit.

It turns out, that despite his insistence to the contrary, REW is making the decision regarding the db increments on the left based on your screen resolution. When I run the program full screen on my 27" 2560x1600 monitor it chooses 2db. When I shrink the window a bit it reverts to 5db. So to keep everyone happy I just keep the window size down.

Anyway, from what I've read your big dip from 100-300Hz is going to be pretty important, being right in the range of human speech and a lot of musical instruments. Try moving your speakers and your seat forward and back and note any changes.

The dip at 22Hz will be an issue with LFE effects in some movies. That's going to come down to sub and seat placement. Of course room layout will dictate how much flexibility you have.
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:37 PM
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I have a bunch more charts to post in a second, maybe everyone will be happy

I am stuck with the subs, not much to do there, BUT, I can move my mains back as much as 12". Center has no movement really. I know these dips and dives an be issues, but one perspective I have to keep is before I even fired up REW, this thing sounded great. Now I would like to fix what I can, thats within reason, but I do not intend on obsessing either. Its a fun process that I want to aid me, not dive me nuts (short drive).

There are a few things I want to address in the current charting I have done, before I start moving speakers.

LG 65EF9500 / UBD-K8500
AV7702mkII / Model 5000
Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:41 PM
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Subs:

XT32 on Red, Off in Blue


Red is subs setup with crossovers bypassed before running XT32 (I have had problems here in the past)/Blue is plate amp xovers set to 80hz before running XT32


Thought on 80hz vs bypassed?

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Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:45 PM
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80hz vs 60hz for mains and center

FR Blue 80hz/Red 60hz


FL Blue 80hz/Red 60hz


Center Blue 80hz/Red 60hz

LG 65EF9500 / UBD-K8500
AV7702mkII / Model 5000
Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-12-2015, 05:55 PM
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All speakers no XT32


All speakers with XT32


Center XT32 Blue/off Red


FR XT32 Blue/Off Red


FL Xt32 Blue/Off Red

LG 65EF9500 / UBD-K8500
AV7702mkII / Model 5000
Klipsch RF-7II's / RC-64II
Dual Rythmik FV15HP's
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:03 PM
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80hz looks better to me.

By "crossovers bypassed", do you mean the knob is turned all the way? I would always leave it that way when using bass management. I don't know if there's a clear winner from your graphs.

Last edited by Soulburner; 06-12-2015 at 07:06 PM.
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:09 PM
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Also, I'm curious if you use Audyssey flat and use the bass tone control, does the 100-300Hz dip come up at all?
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:15 PM
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80Hz looks better to me as well. Crossover on the sub should be turned off. All measurements with Audyssey on show improvements. The FR is not perfect, but if you are happy, who cares?
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