Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 516 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15451 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 08:39 AM
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Thanks a bunch to anybody who can answer these. This will just be my first of questions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
When I run setup through my PC, the most channels I can get is 2.0. My setup is 3.1. Will I be able to run REW properly with this?

Also, although the tutorial PDF shows that REW recognizes the UMM-6 by name and my UMIK-1 is called Mic 1, is this okay?

Finally, do I need to use an SPL Meter if I have a calibrated UMIK-1 from Cross-Spectrum Acoustics? I shipped mine out to my sister for her apartment and don't want to buy another one if I don't have to.
Actually, upon thinking about it I have two more:

Do most people just work on P-EQ for their subs and not everything else? Like, would I just be better off using RCA cables directly with my sub instead of HDMI to the AVR?

Also, my sub's P-EQ settings only let me go as low as 31Hz in frequency. How do I adjust frequencies lower than that?
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post #15452 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 10:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
When I run setup through my PC, the most channels I can get is 2.0. My setup is 3.1. Will I be able to run REW properly with this?
With a 2.0 setup, you can easily measure the Left channel, right channel, L+R, and Center channels, either with or without the sub(s). So yes, you are OK.


Quote:
Also, although the tutorial PDF shows that REW recognizes the UMM-6 by name and my UMIK-1 is called Mic 1, is this okay?
No problem.

Quote:
Finally, do I need to use an SPL Meter if I have a calibrated UMIK-1 from Cross-Spectrum Acoustics? I shipped mine out to my sister for her apartment and don't want to buy another one if I don't have to.
No, but you need to download and insert the "sensitivity parameter" into the calibration file for REW to automatically know the mic's sensitivity. This is all explained in detail in the REW Guide linked in my sig.


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Actually, upon thinking about it I have two more:

Do most people just work on P-EQ for their subs and not everything else? Like, would I just be better off using RCA cables directly with my sub instead of HDMI to the AVR?
I don't know anyone who connects directly to the subs. Besides, you will want to measure the combined response of mains+subs, which you will need to go through the AVR to do this.


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Also, my sub's P-EQ settings only let me go as low as 31Hz in frequency. How do I adjust frequencies lower than that?
Don't know enough about what you are asking to answer this.
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post #15453 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
With a 2.0 setup, you can easily measure the Left channel, right channel, L+R, and Center channels, either with or without the sub(s). So yes, you are OK.

No problem.

No, but you need to download and insert the "sensitivity parameter" into the calibration file for REW to automatically know the mic's sensitivity. This is all explained in detail in the REW Guide linked in my sig.

I don't know anyone who connects directly to the subs. Besides, you will want to measure the combined response of mains+subs, which you will need to go through the AVR to do this.

Don't know enough about what you are asking to answer this.

Thanks for the responses.

I guess I haven't gotten far enough as to figure out what people do to flatten their curves after they get their readings. Let's say I get an initial reading and it has peaks and valleys all over... what do I do to correct this? I go into certain settings to make this happen, right? I drop dB's at some frequencies, raise dB's at others, and re-measure till I get as flat as I can, yes?

Correct me if I have this all wrong. The Parametric EQ settings on my Yamaha receiver strictly leave out subwoofer adjustments, so I figure I do this configurations right from the sub itself.
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post #15454 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Thanks for the responses.

I guess I haven't gotten far enough as to figure out what people do to flatten their curves after they get their readings. Let's say I get an initial reading and it has peaks and valleys all over... what do I do to correct this? I go into certain settings to make this happen, right? I drop dB's at some frequencies, raise dB's at others, and re-measure till I get as flat as I can, yes?

Correct me if I have this all wrong. The Parametric EQ settings on my Yamaha receiver strictly leave out subwoofer adjustments, so I figure I do this configurations right from the sub itself.
You need to tell us which sub you have before we can advise you on the built in EQ....but since you said that it doesn't correct below 31hz, there are better tools for the job, i.e. MiniDSP.

You want to try to never boost dips in the response. The best method is to get the flattest response you can with placement and then bring down the peaks with EQ.
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post #15455 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Thanks for the responses.

I guess I haven't gotten far enough as to figure out what people do to flatten their curves after they get their readings. Let's say I get an initial reading and it has peaks and valleys all over... what do I do to correct this? I go into certain settings to make this happen, right? I drop dB's at some frequencies, raise dB's at others, and re-measure till I get as flat as I can, yes?

Correct me if I have this all wrong. The Parametric EQ settings on my Yamaha receiver strictly leave out subwoofer adjustments, so I figure I do this configurations right from the sub itself.
First step is to return with measurements. You should measure subs only, and then subs with main speakers. Once again, a lot of this is in the guide. Have you read the guide? When you post your measurements, some information about your listening room (dimensions, pictures, etc.) would be useful, as well as a list of your equipment.

As far as obtaining the best bass response goes, the steps are pretty straight-forward:

- Having more than one sub, with each sub placed optimally
- Room treatments
- Electronic EQ (Room EQ like Audyssey, external EQ like a MiniDSP, in-sub PEQ, etc.)
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post #15456 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You want to try to never boost dips in the response
I agree with the rest of the post but this is wrong and you know what loose lips cost

Boost a null = waste of time, won't work
Boost a dip = does the job

Point being that not every dip is a null
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post #15457 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 01:17 PM
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^^^

But, doesn't it depend on how deep the dip is? 3db, sure go ahead and boost it flat. >10db, not so much.
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post #15458 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

But, doesn't it depend on how deep the dip is? 3db, sure go ahead and boost it flat. >10db, not so much.
I suppose that depends on your listening levels? If you have a decent sub and don't go above say 90db, I don't see it being a problem. If you run at reference a lot, I'd agree that a 10db boost might not be a good idea.
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post #15459 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 01:37 PM
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You don't necessarily have to get a dip to flat, just better than it was. Boosts tend to add distortion, anyway, so it's a balancing act.
As is all of this, no?
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I've done extensive measurements with my latest settings/setup and comparing 80/90/100Hz X-Overs. Also, there appears to be something possibly phase related going on between the front right + sub. Any advice on which crossover is best and what to do about the FR issue?

Starting out with REW... evaluating post auto-cal results (without auto-EQ)

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post #15461 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
^^^

But, doesn't it depend on how deep the dip is? 3db, sure go ahead and boost it flat. >10db, not so much.
well sure but that's my point in a nutshell

A null is the almost complete absence of output caused by two waves being ~180 degrees out of phase. This will be highly sensitive to frequency hence results in a v sharp (high q) and v deep dip (~15-20dB or more). EQ cannot fix this.

A broader (lower q) and shallower depression is a different phenomenon entirely and can (potentially) be counteracted with eq.

The excess phase view helps disambiguate the two cases (though the former is hard to miss...)
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post #15462 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You need to tell us which sub you have before we can advise you on the built in EQ....but since you said that it doesn't correct below 31hz, there are better tools for the job, i.e. MiniDSP.

You want to try to never boost dips in the response. The best method is to get the flattest response you can with placement and then bring down the peaks with EQ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
First step is to return with measurements. You should measure subs only, and then subs with main speakers. Once again, a lot of this is in the guide. Have you read the guide? When you post your measurements, some information about your listening room (dimensions, pictures, etc.) would be useful, as well as a list of your equipment.

As far as obtaining the best bass response goes, the steps are pretty straight-forward:

- Having more than one sub, with each sub placed optimally
- Room treatments
- Electronic EQ (Room EQ like Audyssey, external EQ like a MiniDSP, in-sub PEQ, etc.)
Gotcha.

I have the SVS PC13-Ultra. Given the current living arrangements, only one sub will do for now.

Haven't yet taken measurements. I read the guide up to a point where my software wasn't doing exactly what Room EQ Wizard was doing in the PDF, which is why I started with the first few questions before starting.

I have a Yamaha receiver, which does not have Audyssey. I bought a UMIK-1, though. My living room won't be able to have any proper room treatments, so I'm kind of just making due with what I have.

I completely understand it's tough to work with someone who's saying he can only go in halfway instead of all the way, but this isn't a home theater, it's a living room with HT equipment. Bass traps and the like just won't happen here. When I move out, I hope to have exactly what it is that everyone else has (though as a high school teacher, I'll have to be careful with my budget obviously... not much loose cash to go around living in the Bay Area). Until then, I'm just looking for any spikes and nulls there are to see what there is to at least acknowledge them.
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post #15463 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
I agree with the rest of the post but this is wrong and you know what loose lips cost

Boost a null = waste of time, won't work
Boost a dip = does the job

Point being that not every dip is a null
Again, not sure if I have looked at settings correctly at all... but looking at my sub's settings, I can only boost as high as 3dB over normal, and I can only drop as low as 12dB over normal.

So as it appears, it's probably best that I first increase the output over normal then lower items from there?

Probably not doing this within the next 48 hours or whatever (depends on when I have time), but I want to know what I'm jumping into when I do.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Again, not sure if I have looked at settings correctly at all... but looking at my sub's settings, I can only boost as high as 3dB over normal, and I can only drop as low as 12dB over normal.

So as it appears, it's probably best that I first increase the output over normal then lower items from there?

Probably not doing this within the next 48 hours or whatever (depends on when I have time), but I want to know what I'm jumping into when I do.
As you move the sub around the room you're going to see the graph change quite a bit. The idea is that you find a spot where large boosts aren't needed.
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post #15465 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
As you move the sub around the room you're going to see the graph change quite a bit. The idea is that you find a spot where large boosts aren't needed.
Sadly, I don't have much room (no pun intended) to move it.

I'll update this post with room pics in a second. I'll obviously update you guys later with cubic footage and actual measurements when I can.

Sub is in the corner near the FL tower, on isolation feet.








Last edited by muffinmcfluffin; Yesterday at 03:16 PM.
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post #15466 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:16 PM
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^^

Nearfield?

To the right of the couch (MLP)?

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #15467 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:18 PM
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^^

Nearfield?

To the right of the couch (MLP)?
Not sure what you're asking me here. I do not have any nearfield subs, if that's what you're asking.

There are two couches. The love seat (that you see pictured) is not where most people would sit. The first camera shot is from MLP. If you're asking me to place a nearfield sub to the right of that, there is opportunity to put something there maybe, but I wouldn't put anyone's hopes up that that'll be happening. I'll take another picture later of what's over there (these are older shots).
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That's what I meant. Can you place the sub nearfield, perhaps to the right of the MLP, left of the other couch?

Yippee-ki-yay...
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post #15469 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:22 PM
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Quote:
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That's what I meant. Can you place the sub nearfield, perhaps to the right of the MLP, left of the other couch?
Oh, possibly. Doing most research people had suggested against placing it closer to MLP where it would not blend as well with everything else. It fits almost so perfectly where it's at I feel it wouldn't belong anywhere else.

As far as putting the PC13-Ultra there, that would be a no-go with what's currently there. I thought you just meant adding another smaller sub nearby.

If you could entertain me on the subject matter, what do you think would be of benefit by placing it there instead of where it's at right now?
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post #15470 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:25 PM
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You're more likely to avoid bass problems if the sub is near you. However you may notice that it's there depending on several factors. Less likely at a 60Hz crossover, more likely at 80hz and higher. It doesn't work for everyone.
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post #15471 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 03:28 PM
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Because, unfortunately, the vast majority of time, where the subwoofer looks better, it'll probably sound the worse.

These puppies want to be place where they want.
Once I did a subwoofer crawl with a friend and it sounded awesome in mid-air. How about that...

Being that you're limited with placement, it's a tough call.
If you have an end table next to the couch, for instance, and that's why you can't place your subwoofer there, try it anyway! You invested in a nice piece of gear. Might as well get the best of it.

If not, then getting a second subwoofer would help with the dip, nulls and peaks and smooth out the response in your room. But that costs money. Moving the sub around is free. And it's a good workout too!
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Yippee-ki-yay...
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^^

And with duals, a good room correction system like Audyssey XT32 + Sub EQ, for example, will make a huge difference.
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post #15473 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 04:04 PM
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I can confirm that.

Went from YPAO to XT32 and SubEQ and I'm very pleased.
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post #15474 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cesar123 View Post
I can confirm that.

Went from YPAO to XT32 and SubEQ and I'm very pleased.
Can I get these still with a Yamaha receiver?

And do I need the UMIK-1 for anything if I'm going to use these?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Can I get these still with a Yamaha receiver?

And do I need the UMIK-1 for anything if I'm going to use these?
So you have said that you don't have room for a second sub, you can't put the current sub anywhere else, you can't use room treatments, and you don't have an AVR with current-technology room correction. What exactly do you expect to accomplish in this thread? You don't seem to have any freedom whatsoever.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Sub EQ HT should produce very good results with both your current and your new configurations.
So Jerry, I should connect each exact pair (equidistant to MLP) to sub channel 1, and the other exact pair (equidistant to MLP) to sub channel 2, and run XT32 SUBEQ HT? If so, thank you for the advice.

Jeffrey
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post #15477 of 15478 Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
So Jerry, I should connect each exact pair (equidistant to MLP) to sub channel 1, and the other exact pair (equidistant to MLP) to sub channel 2, and run XT32 SUBEQ HT? If so, thank you for the advice.

Jeffrey
Correct. Audyssey will establish the correct delays for each channel.
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post #15478 of 15478 Old Today, 06:32 AM
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What's the minimum one has to spend on a new AVR to get XT32 and Sub EQ HT?

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
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