Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 517 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15481 of 15494 Old Yesterday, 08:25 AM
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I've bought a few refurb AVRs, not a single issue.
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post #15482 of 15494 Old Yesterday, 05:05 PM
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Okay, with minimum attempting, I was able to do this with my subwoofer (blue = old, purple = new).

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post #15483 of 15494 Old Yesterday, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Okay, with minimum attempting, I was able to do this with my subwoofer (blue = old, purple = new).

Regarding your measurement, you should cut off the lower end at 15Hz, and the upper end should extend to 300Hz, and the measurement should not be smoothed. Can you repost taking these recommendations into consideration?
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post #15484 of 15494 Old Yesterday, 11:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Regarding your measurement, you should cut off the lower end at 15Hz, and the upper end should extend to 300Hz, and the measurement should not be smoothed. Can you repost taking these recommendations into consideration?
If I have time tomorrow, I will.

Smoothing is off.

Why up to 300, though? My crossover frequency is at 60Hz. The PC13-Ultra can only do two P-EQ bands. If you want me to mix it with my FL and FR channels, I'll have to do more with it.
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post #15485 of 15494 Old Today, 12:41 AM
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I think it's for proper scaling of the graph?
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post #15486 of 15494 Old Today, 05:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
If I have time tomorrow, I will.

Smoothing is off.

Why up to 300, though? My crossover frequency is at 60Hz. The PC13-Ultra can only do two P-EQ bands. If you want me to mix it with my FL and FR channels, I'll have to do more with it.
You should be concerned by the overall bass frequency response of your system. The main speakers begin contributing to bass response at the crossover (actually their bass contribution extends below the crossover, albeit at a rolled-off level). To assess bass performance, you need to measure not only the sub, but the smoothness of the transition between the sub and the mains. In audio terms, the bass (or modal) region extends to at least 300Hz, and in this range room modes affect bass performance, ringing, etc. That is why measuring the entire modal region is important.
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post #15487 of 15494 Old Today, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You should be concerned by the overall bass frequency response of your system. The main speakers begin contributing to bass response at the crossover (actually their bass contribution extends below the crossover, albeit at a rolled-off level). To assess bass performance, you need to measure not only the sub, but the smoothness of the transition between the sub and the mains. In audio terms, the bass (or modal) region extends to at least 300Hz, and in this range room modes affect bass performance, ringing, etc. That is why measuring the entire modal region is important.
Oh no doubt, I'll be getting to that. I just measured what my subwoofer was giving me. I worked on the left speaker for a moment without the subwoofer just to play with it (as the tutorial suggested). Should I just combine L+R+sub altogether as one and only worry about that, or should I do sub independently, FL independently, FR independently, FL+sub, FR+sub, then L+R+sub? Should I involve the center channel with any of these combinations?

Also, how concerned should I be with measurements above 300Hz? If I only get seven bands to adjust in my receiver for each independent channel, should I focus mostly on <300Hz settings to get those as flat as possible and not be as concerned about the stuff above it?

Finally, are you suggesting that I not be concerned about <15Hz? One of the reasons the sub has better extension is because I changed the tuning from 15Hz to Sealed. Before, there was a spike around the 20Hz region that I simply couldn't modify, because I can only change settings as closely as 31Hz. I don't know how I can do any extra modifications given what I have. This one had a much slower, steadier roll-off and I was able to do this more properly while getting better extension. But if <15Hz doesn't matter much beyond something like "Irene" in Black Hawn Down, I won't worry so much about that and stick with a roll-off at 16Hz. I'll probably change the crossover frequency back to 80Hz, but I believe I may have a null around 80hz as well.

Thanks. Next time I post measurements, it will be the original ones without any modifications from 15-300Hz. Though, let me know which ones I should post among these:

FL (no sub)
FR (no sub)
C (no sub)
FL + FR (no sub)
FL + FR + C (no sub)
Sub
FL + sub
FR + sub
C + sub
FL + FR + sub
FL + FR + C + sub

Last edited by muffinmcfluffin; Today at 09:14 AM.
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post #15488 of 15494 Old Today, 09:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Oh no doubt, I'll be getting to that. I just measured what my subwoofer was giving me. I worked on the left speaker for a moment without the subwoofer just to play with it (as the tutorial suggested). Should I just combine L+R+sub altogether as one and only worry about that, or should I do sub independently, FL independently, FR independently, FL+sub, FR+sub, then L+R+sub? Should I involve the center channel with any of these combinations?

Also, how concerned should I be with measurements above 300Hz? If I only get seven bands to adjust in my receiver for each independent channel, should I focus mostly on <300Hz settings to get those as flat as possible and not be as concerned about the stuff above it?

Thanks.
I would measure sub+center, 15-300Hz, no smoothing. The combination of sub and center is critical for movie and TV viewing. You can measure the others as well--each provides a slightly different perspective.

Most audible issues are in the modal region below 300Hz. However, to provide a complete picture of overall system performance, I would measure left, right and center 15_20,000Hz, smoothed to 1/12 or 1/6.
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post #15489 of 15494 Old Today, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I would measure sub+center, 15-300Hz, no smoothing. The combination of sub and center is critical for movie and TV viewing. You can measure the others as well--each provides a slightly different perspective.

Most audible issues are in the modal region below 300Hz. However, to provide a complete picture of overall system performance, I would measure left, right and center 15_20,000Hz, smoothed to 1/12 or 1/6.
Thanks.

So here's what I'm reading should be the suggested graphs I provide (assuming 16Hz port tune & 80Hz crossover frequency, no modifications).

FL (15Hz-20kHz)
FR (15Hz-20kHz)
C (15Hz-20kHz)
FL + FR (15Hz-20kHz)
FL + FR + C (15Hz-20kHz)
Sub (15-300Hz)
FL + sub (15-300Hz)
FR + sub (15-300Hz)
C + sub (15-300Hz)
FL + FR + sub (15-300Hz)
FL + FR + C + sub (15-300Hz)

All 15-300Hz graphs should have no smoothing, all (15Hz-20kHz) graphs should have perhaps 1/6 smoothing.

Maybe if in your next post you can either copy-paste or bold the items above that will be most beneficial to measure and post? Thanks!
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post #15490 of 15494 Old Today, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Thanks.

So here's what I'm reading should be the suggested graphs I provide (assuming 16Hz port tune & 80Hz crossover frequency, no modifications).

FL (15Hz-20kHz)
FR (15Hz-20kHz)
C (15Hz-20kHz)
FL + FR (15Hz-20kHz)
FL + FR + C (15Hz-20kHz)
Sub (15-300Hz)
FL + sub (15-300Hz)
FR + sub (15-300Hz)
C + sub (15-300Hz)
FL + FR + sub (15-300Hz)
FL + FR + C + sub (15-300Hz)

All 15-300Hz graphs should have no smoothing, all (15Hz-20kHz) graphs should have perhaps 1/6 smoothing.

Maybe if in your next post you can either copy-paste or bold the items above that will be most beneficial to measure and post? Thanks!
In order of importance (if this system is mainly for movies):
  • C + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FL + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FR + sub (15-300Hz)

For tweaking the crossover region (overly all to find the best crossover):
  • C (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FL (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FR (15Hz-20kHz)
  • Sub (15-300Hz)

Not needed (IMO):
  • FL + FR (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FL + FR + C (15Hz-20kHz) <---you would not be able to accomplish this if you are using HDMI because you can only output to 2 channels + sub at once
  • FL + FR + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FL + FR + C + sub (15-300Hz) <---you would not be able to accomplish this if you are using HDMI because you can only output to 2 channels + sub at once
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post #15491 of 15494 Old Today, 10:08 AM
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Got it. So when it comes to tweaking, it's not necessarily about what the individual tweaking is for each channel unless it's blending with the sub.

I wish the back of my receiver was more accessible. I'm not using banana plugs, but even if I was it wouldn't be any better. I had to untwist the positive ends of my FL and FR speakers just to get the sub by itself. Good to hear that's not the proposed way of going about this immediately anyway.

If I invested in an Anti-Mode product, would I calibrate with the Anti-Mode then look to do more of my tweaking thereafter? This is an option of mine, but not my go-to if I can get somewhat pleasing results with what I'm about to measure today or tomorrow.
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post #15492 of 15494 Old Today, 10:39 AM
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Anti-mode?

What AVR are you using? Do you have Audyssey? If so, what flavor? What sub(s)?

If you don't have an AVR with XT32, I would suggest that (as an upgrade in sound for the entire system) as opposed to an Anti-mode (upgrade for sub response only).
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post #15493 of 15494 Old Today, 10:59 AM
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If you're using HDMI, you can test with channel 4 to get just the sub.

As to the null at 80 - if you really do have a null there, that's going to determine you crossover point. You'll need to determine whether that's being caused by your speakers producing 80hz or your sub, and adjust the crossover up or down to avoid it.
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post #15494 of 15494 Unread Today, 11:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Anti-mode?

What AVR are you using? Do you have Audyssey? If so, what flavor? What sub(s)?

If you don't have an AVR with XT32, I would suggest that (as an upgrade in sound for the entire system) as opposed to an Anti-mode (upgrade for sub response only).
Receiver: Yamaha RX-V667 7.2
Center: Klipsch RC-62 II Reference
Fronts: Klipsch RF-82 II Reference
Subwoofer: SVS PC13-Ultra

No surrounds anymore (running 3.1 bi-amped). Only YPAO with the Yamaha receivers.

I'd love to upgrade receivers, I really would. The Marantz models that I was most interested in were too tall for the shelf that it sits under though (6.5" H). Whenever I move out, which will be more than a year from now, I'm probably going to keep this audio equipment with my family and upgrade to the biggest baddest **** I can get with my high school teaching salary. I'll probably go broke.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
If you're using HDMI, you can test with channel 4 to get just the sub.

As to the null at 80 - if you really do have a null there, that's going to determine you crossover point. You'll need to determine whether that's being caused by your speakers producing 80hz or your sub, and adjust the crossover up or down to avoid it.
I don't know if I actually had a channel 4. I had my HDMI 1 and 2 in the setup, then two other options, but I don't think they were actually numbered in that sense. I'll look again the next time I run it.

I wouldn't say 80 was an actual null, after looking at some other people's measurements that feature actual nulls. I think I still have some older measurements that show 80Hz that I can show you. It was a dip, but not a cliff if you know what I mean. If I find one I'll post it here.

Is it better that the crossover is set up at a null, or is not?

Last edited by muffinmcfluffin; Today at 11:44 AM.
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