Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 518 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #15511 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 02:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
As long as the output TOGETHER is flat, it's okay. Obviously, they're doing SOME work at 40Hz, since you have a peak there.
Hence, the graph of center + sub(s) being very important.
Hmm, my understanding was that together kept the crossover in mind, meaning the measurements are ignoring the L+R+C readings below 60Hz if my crossover is set there. Hence the reason they all essentially look the same in the first graph up until the original 80Hz crossover point.

But yes, together I can get them down to where need be.

EDIT: Actually you're right, they do begin to differentiate before the crossover. Either way, I guess I'll have to play with it quite a bit.
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post #15512 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 02:52 PM
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Does anyone have a house curve answer I was referring to earlier? Across from 15Hz-20kHz, do you really want the whole thing to be flat? Or do you want it to slope off as you go higher? I have a feeling it's going to sound too bright if it doesn't slope off.

And how do you determine what this slope is?
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post #15513 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Does anyone have a house curve answer I was referring to earlier? Across from 15Hz-20kHz, do you really want the whole thing to be flat? Or do you want it to slope off as you go higher? I have a feeling it's going to sound too bright if it doesn't slope off.

And how do you determine what this slope is?
Generally speaking, most people prefer a bump to the bass and a rolling off of the treble. Picture pouring water on the bass end of the graph - it should be able to find its way to the other end and drain off.

Expect to hear disagreement on this, as it's been discussed in the Audyssey thread (and others, I'm sure).
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post #15514 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 03:31 PM
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That's why it's called a house curve, it depends on your house.
The idea is to calibrate flat, which is the reference from which you can start.
Typically, there's a boost at the low end (I'll say 6 - 10 dB) with a smooth slope that ends around 100 Hz. Then it's flat.
And, yes, there are some people who like a drop off at the high end. At my age, I can use a little extra treble.
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post #15515 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 03:33 PM
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This may help:
http://www.hifizine.com/2011/06/bass...-guide-part-1/
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post #15516 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 03:42 PM
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Well shucks, I did not account for this when measuring. Can boosting the subwoofer hotter from the AVR yield a similar result without having to adjust too much in the P-EQ settings?
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post #15517 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Well shucks, I did not account for this when measuring. Can boosting the subwoofer hotter from the AVR yield a similar result without having to adjust too much in the P-EQ settings?
Yup.

Here's an awesome article on the subject over at HT Shack from the resident guru, Wayne:

http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...urve-long.html
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post #15518 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
In order of importance (if this system is mainly for movies):
  • C + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FL + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FR + sub (15-300Hz)

For tweaking the crossover region (overly all to find the best crossover):
  • C (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FL (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FR (15Hz-20kHz)
  • Sub (15-300Hz)

Not needed (IMO):
  • FL + FR (15Hz-20kHz)
  • FL + FR + C (15Hz-20kHz) <---you would not be able to accomplish this if you are using HDMI because you can only output to 2 channels + sub at once
  • FL + FR + sub (15-300Hz)
  • FL + FR + C + sub (15-300Hz) <---you would not be able to accomplish this if you are using HDMI because you can only output to 2 channels + sub at once
If I use my setup for both 5.1 movies AND stereo 2.2 for music, am I in error to think that both subs with mains (L & R) is an important measurement. I do my most critical listening with music. Thanks for any clarity.
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post #15519 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saril View Post
If I use my setup for both 5.1 movies AND stereo 2.2 for music, am I in error to think that both subs with mains (L & R) is an important measurement. I do my most critical listening with music. Thanks for any clarity.
Measuring L+R+subs is interesting in the modal region to assess bass performance. However, in the upper frequencies, the interaction between the left and right speaker can produce skewed frequency response graphs if the measuring mic is not exactly in the center between the speakers. If the upper frequency measurement looks peculiar, measuring left and right speakers by themselves can produce a more accurate representation.
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post #15520 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 06:34 PM
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That gets me thinking though. We don't listen to only one speaker at a time, we listen to them both. So wouldn't that be a good way to measure FR for sounds that will play from both speakers simultaneously, such as dialogue/vocals? Center image type stuff (for 2 channel only of course).
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post #15521 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 08:04 PM
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Ok, I'm struggling. I've been trying to use the REW 101 to get things up and running with a UMM6 mike.

1. On page 61, it says to set REW output to L+R+Subs. I'm sure I'm missing something simple, but I can't find this anywhere. How do I do this?

2. A much bigger issue is whenever I use signal generator, and sometimes when changing settings in preferences, I get an error that says:

ASIO Device has been reset due to:
Reset Request from driver
Inputs and outputs may need to be reselected

Any ideas on either of these?
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post #15522 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 08:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
Ok, I'm struggling. I've been trying to use the REW 101 to get things up and running with a UMM6 mike.

1. On page 61, it says to set REW output to L+R+Subs. I'm sure I'm missing something simple, but I can't find this anywhere. How do I do this?

2. A much bigger issue is whenever I use signal generator, and sometimes when changing settings in preferences, I get an error that says:

ASIO Device has been reset due to:
Reset Request from driver
Inputs and outputs may need to be reselected

Any ideas on either of these?
Answer 1: Select HDMI1 as the output, which sends the signal to the left channel. Select HDMI2 in the Timing Reference drop-down, which sends the signal to the right channel. Set both left and right channels to "small", which sends the frequencies below the crossover to the sub(s). Make sense?

Answer 2: No guidance. ASIO is finicky software. Keep trying.
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post #15523 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Answer 1: Select HDMI1 as the output, which sends the signal to the left channel. Select HDMI2 in the Timing Reference drop-down, which sends the signal to the right channel. Set both left and right channels to "small", which sends the frequencies below the crossover to the sub(s). Make sense?

Answer 2: No guidance. ASIO is finicky software. Keep trying.
On Asio, I think the issue might have been I had 2.12 installed. I tried 2.11, but it wouldn't install. I didn't notice further down was 2.11 beta 2.

A seperate problem is one time my UMM6 will be active in Asio, but not HDMI audio, then the reverse will happen. Not sure what's going on here.

On L+R+Sub, I follow now on the two outputs. However, on setting the speakers to small, should I do that in the AVR (that's my guess) or in the playback settings?
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post #15524 of 15538 Old Yesterday, 09:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Tnedator View Post
On Asio, I think the issue might have been I had 2.12 installed. I tried 2.11, but it wouldn't install. I didn't notice further down was 2.11 beta 2.

A seperate problem is one time my UMM6 will be active in Asio, but not HDMI audio, then the reverse will happen. Not sure what's going on here.

On L+R+Sub, I follow now on the two outputs. However, on setting the speakers to small, should I do that in the AVR (that's my guess) or in the playback settings?
In the AVR. They should already be set to small.
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post #15525 of 15538 Old Today, 06:25 AM
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I get a similar error message at times but if I click ok and select the right channel(s) again everything works normally. Happens about once each time I start/use the software.
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post #15526 of 15538 Old Today, 08:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Does anyone have a house curve answer I was referring to earlier?
Are you using Audyssey DEQ? It applies a house curve of sorts to your response when enabled (and playing below reference). In that case you may not want a double house curve.
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post #15527 of 15538 Old Today, 10:51 AM
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How do I make a house curve .txt file visible in my measurements?

What about the mic/meter cal curve? Should I consider following that? Meaning, does that have anything to do with my room, or is that just the calibration itself?

Also, I don't get what decibel level I am supposed to set my receiver to. Initially I thought I was supposed to be at "reference" (0dB), but then I read the tutorial and it said to be about 40dB above room volume, and the mic or something also says something about -12dB. However, none of these match up with the mic/meter cal curve that's around 75dB.

This crap frustrates me because I want to understand it and I feel knowledgeable enough that I should, but too many instructions contradict each other.
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post #15528 of 15538 Old Today, 11:03 AM
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I just adjust things until my output is in the 75-85db range. It doesn't need to be crazy loud. That's somewhere around -30 or -25 for me IIRC.
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post #15529 of 15538 Old Today, 11:08 AM
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Gotcha, thanks.

Any idea on making a house curve .txt file visible on my measurements, or the curve for the mic/meter cal itself and its proper use?
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post #15530 of 15538 Old Today, 11:57 AM
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House curve in REW:

http://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/hel...ousecurve.html


You can just un-tick the mic/meter cal and never worry about it again.
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post #15531 of 15538 Old Today, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
I just adjust things until my output is in the 75-85db range. It doesn't need to be crazy loud. That's somewhere around -30 or -25 for me IIRC.
Same here... -25MV with a -12.0 dBFS signal produces about 80 dB for the front left speaker (AVR trim is zero for front left). LFE is 10 dB higher (plus any extra dB from running subwoofer trim hot).

Now here's a slightly off-topic question, when watching a BD movie does LFE play 10 dB louder than the mains? Or is there a -10 dBFS offset?

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; Today at 12:01 PM.
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post #15532 of 15538 Old Today, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Now here's a slightly off-topic question, when watching a BD movie does LFE play 10 dB louder than the mains? Or is there a -10 dBFS offset?
The LFE track is encoded at 10dB lower than the other tracks. The AVR automatically adds the 10dB back, so there is no action required on your part, nor should you be concerned.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
Does anyone have a house curve answer I was referring to earlier?
Are you using Audyssey DEQ? It applies a house curve of sorts to your response when enabled (and playing below reference). In that case you may not want a double house curve.
Doesn't Audyssey itself have a house curve (3 choices and default is reference that rolls off high frequencies)?

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; Today at 12:09 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post

Now here's a slightly off-topic question, when watching a BD movie does LFE play 10 dB louder than the mains? Or is there a -10 dBFS offset?
The LFE track is encoded at 10dB lower than the other tracks. The AVR automatically adds the 10dB back, so there is no action required on your part, nor should you be concerned.
Ok, so in the end does sw volume match the other speakers (aside from running things hot or from bass management)?
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post #15535 of 15538 Old Today, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
House curve in REW:

http://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/hel...ousecurve.html


You can just un-tick the mic/meter cal and never worry about it again.
I've done that. I can't see it, though.

I have a Yamaha receiver, so I'm not using Audyssey.
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post #15536 of 15538 Unread Today, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinmcfluffin View Post
I've done that. I can't see it, though.

I have a Yamaha receiver, so I'm not using Audyssey.
You will only see your house curve in the EQ panel of REW (if that's what you mean).

Quoted from the link above:

Quote:
When a house curve has been loaded the "House Curve" symbol is displayed next to the Target trace value in the Filter Adjust graph.
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post #15537 of 15538 Unread Today, 01:36 PM
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post #15538 of 15538 Unread Today, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Ok, so in the end does sw volume match the other speakers (aside from running things hot or from bass management)?
Yes, assuming room correction did a good job.
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