Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 553 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16561 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
Or once you have pretty good sound, you could spend endless time trying to "perfect" the room response for a small percentage of better sound?
See "Rabbit Hole."
It's your room/setup/life, so you can get as involved as you want. The consensus here is probably that you should at least take some measurements so you know your starting point. You may not need to do much. You may not want to do anything.
Or it could become an interesting hobby.
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post #16562 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
See "Rabbit Hole."
It's your room/setup/life, so you can get as involved as you want. The consensus here is probably that you should at least take some measurements so you know your starting point. You may not need to do much. You may not want to do anything.
Or it could become an interesting hobby.
Michael
I think sometimes it's more fun to play audio engineer than listening/watching to my setup.
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post #16563 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Or once you have pretty good sound, you could spend endless time trying to "perfect" the room response for a small percentage of better sound?
This is my experience.


Not really....I do much more listening than tweaking these days. But a year ago, it seemed like I was pulling out the measuring rig almost every night.
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post #16564 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Todd68 View Post
What gains in SQ do you hear from using filters you designed after you learned what your doing compared to the crude Auto EQ functions of REW?
The auto EQ function of REW isn't crude. It matches a set of filters to a curve. The important part is how the user arrived at that particular curve.

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And how much time do you figure it took for you to learn what you know?
Depends on what you want to know and on your educational background. Read the Dirac Research paper I've linked earlier. It should give you a feeling what topics you need to research.

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Or once you have pretty good sound, you could spend endless time trying to "perfect" the room response for a small percentage of better sound?
There are too many open questions surrounding sound reproduction, keeping you busy perfecting your system for as long as you want to.

Markus

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post #16565 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 01:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
I'm thinking about buying the Dirac plug-in for my nanoavr. I actually haven't listened to anything yet lol!!! I just finished setting everything up & wanted to take some measurements before settling in to listen. I do notice a bit more "humps" with 1/6 smoothing. I don't really know too much on how to "tame" the rise in bass frequency that you mentioned. I'm always looking for some assistance my friend. Anything you might suggest would be greatly appreciated!!!

Thank you again for your time Jerry!!!

Carmine
Sorry, I thought your NanoAVR already had Dirac Live. I definitely recommend Dirac, and it will most likely be a very cost-effective next step for your system. As far as taming the rise in bass frequencies, many people (myself included) apply such a rise on purpose. There is no need to knock it down unless you don't like how the bass sounds. One step you should take is to analyze the bass resonance. This is measured by either the waterfall graph or the spectrogram. Follow the recommendations in the guide on creating these graphs from your existing measurements and post them here for comments.
Hey Jerry, ok I know for sure that I have some problematic bass resonance due to the sliding glass door in the room. I have installed a few acoustic panels at some main reflection points but since it's only an apartment I can't really do too much more. I will post my waterfall & specto graphs as soon as I get home from work. You most likely will "cringe" when you see them lol but I'm always looking for some suggestions.

Thanks again very much Jerry!!
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post #16566 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 01:49 PM
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Here are the waterfalls & spectrograms for the combined measurements Jerry....
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post #16567 of 19027 Old 10-23-2015, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The auto EQ function of REW isn't crude. It matches a set of filters to a curve. The important part is how the user arrived at that particular curve.



Depends on what you want to know and on your educational background. Read the Dirac Research paper I've linked earlier. It should give you a feeling what topics you need to research.



There are too many open questions surrounding sound reproduction, keeping you busy perfecting your system for as long as you want to.
At least the room simulator helped me out with no further education. After trying different locations with the simulator I put the one sub from the left corner back behind me on the left side wall. Did a traditional 80hz crossover setup this time and used the auto EQ. This time the sound doesn't sound thin at all without jacking up the subs output. Only downfall is its louder upstairs.

Whenever I get bored Ill try something new with the REW and maybe try the Dirac live sometime.
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post #16568 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
Here are the waterfalls & spectrograms for the combined measurements Jerry....
Question to Jerry or Markus: can the 'modal' eq filters in REW help with the high levels of ringing in the low end shown here? I was wondering what the point of those filters was as opposed to the more commonly used 'pk' filters.
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post #16569 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Question to Jerry or Markus: can the 'modal' eq filters in REW help with the high levels of ringing in the low end shown here? I was wondering what the point of those filters was as opposed to the more commonly used 'pk' filters.
the modal option is just a different way of specifying the filter, the end result is the same. As the REW help says

The Modal filter type is a peaking filter whose bandwidth or Q is adjusted by REW to match a Target T60 time, it is used to accurately counter a modal resonance whose T60 time is known. To match a specific T60 time the filter's bandwidth or Q must be altered as its gain or centre frequency change. REW chooses the bandwidth or Q setting supported by the selected equaliser that most closely matches the target T60.

you can tune a PEQ filter to hit a mode more or less precisely by looking at the impact on the waterfall.
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post #16570 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Question to Jerry or Markus: can the 'modal' eq filters in REW help with the high levels of ringing in the low end shown here? I was wondering what the point of those filters was as opposed to the more commonly used 'pk' filters.
the modal option is just a different way of specifying the filter, the end result is the same. As the REW help says

The Modal filter type is a peaking filter whose bandwidth or Q is adjusted by REW to match a Target T60 time, it is used to accurately counter a modal resonance whose T60 time is known. To match a specific T60 time the filter's bandwidth or Q must be altered as its gain or centre frequency change. REW chooses the bandwidth or Q setting supported by the selected equaliser that most closely matches the target T60.

you can tune a PEQ filter to hit a mode more or less precisely by looking at the impact on the waterfall.
Interesting; I wonder how easy this is to get right and if there are cases where this approach is preferable to traditional pk filters.
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post #16571 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:29 AM
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So for those of us who don't understand a word you're saying (), REW takes T60 into consideration when recommending filter settings?
Or is that something that needs to be tweaked after looking at the T60 graphs?
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post #16572 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:34 AM
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If I'm not mistaken the eq tool in REW has a whole tab for modal resonances and you can input room dimensions and it will calculate room modes and T60 times.
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post #16573 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Interesting; I wonder how easy this is to get right and if there are cases where this approach is preferable to traditional pk filters.
"Traditional PK" filters and "modal" filters are the same.

Markus

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post #16574 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:41 AM
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So for those of us who don't understand a word you're saying (), REW takes T60 into consideration when recommending filter settings?
Or is that something that needs to be tweaked after looking at the T60 graphs?
Michael
it is covered in http://www.roomeqwizard.com/help/hel...indow.html#top

there is a section on modal analysis which gives an overview

if you manually tweak the EQ then you can see how it is predicted to affect the resonance by looking at the waterfall view in the eq screen, you can make filters that hit the initial peak similarly well but show differing decays
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post #16575 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 08:43 AM
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So for those of us who don't understand a word you're saying (), REW takes T60 into consideration when recommending filter settings?
Or is that something that needs to be tweaked after looking at the T60 graphs?
Michael
PK filters "ring". Ideally that ringing matches the ringing of a mode. The net result is no ringing.

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post #16576 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 09:33 AM
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Thanks for the explanations.
If only that would help with my tinnitus.



[Ringing. Get it? ]
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post #16577 of 19027 Old 10-24-2015, 10:59 AM
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Hey guys. Based on the waterfall graphs I posted yesterday would anyone be willing to lend a hand. I've read through the above posted link regarding modal resonances & EQ filters but I cannot seem to grasp what to do. Please forgive my lack of knowledge with this. I went into the EQ section of REW, I selected my EQ (minidsp nanoavr), clicked on the Modal Analysis tab. I then input my room dimensions & the software "marked" all of my resonances. But I don't know what to do next to generate a filter that might bring my resonances under control (if possible). As you can see from my waterfalls, the most extreme are within the 20-30Hz range & then some more up around 40-50Hz. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much guys!!!
Carmine.
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post #16578 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 09:58 AM
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Jerry, I was going through the guide as a refresher since its been awhile for me with rew. The guide says if you have 7.1 HDMI support on laptop, use multi ch in when taking measurements. I only have 5 speakers but I get all the HDMI channels in rew as options to measure, so I assume this means I have full 7.1 support. Then I saw post 15358 where you said "For a laptop with 7.1 support, the AVR should be inStereo mode". Doesn't that contradict the guide or am I missing something? Thx
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post #16579 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 10:01 AM
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Jerry, I was going through the guide as a refresher since its been awhile for me with rew. The guide says if you have 7.1 HDMI support on laptop, use multi ch in when taking measurements. I only have 5 speakers but I get all the HDMI channels in rew as options to measure, so I assume this means I have full 7.1 support. Then I saw post 15358 where you said "For a laptop with 7.1 support, the AVR should be inStereo mode". Doesn't that contradict the guide or am I missing something? Thx
Not Jerry but you can use multi-ch in and select the channels (2 at most at a time) via REW preferences. Stereo is typically reserved for Java users (especially for those that want L+R+Sub measurements).
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post #16580 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 10:09 AM
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Thanks, that's what I thought too, but it seems that post 15358 directly contradicted that... Maybe that was a special case? What about 5 ch stereo mode, would the measurement be the same as multi ch in?
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post #16581 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 11:36 AM
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Thanks, that's what I thought too, but it seems that post 15358 directly contradicted that... Maybe that was a special case? What about 5 ch stereo mode, would the measurement be the same as multi ch in?
Let me correct that statement. If your laptop outputs a 7.1 signal, the AVR should automatically switch to "Mult CH In" mode, at least mine does (Marantz 8801). Since writing the post you referenced, at which time I had an older laptop that only had 2-channel support, I have purchased a new laptop with full 7.1 support. So, prior to getting the new laptop, I was flying blind.

The original post has been corrected.
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post #16582 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 11:40 AM
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Thanks jerry!
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post #16583 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 08:23 PM
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Not Jerry but you can use multi-ch in and select the channels (2 at most at a time) via REW preferences. Stereo is typically reserved for Java users (especially for those that want L+R+Sub measurements).
I may be missing the jest of this answer, can not L+R+Sub(s) measurements be taken via REW preferences with multi-channel in? Curious, thanks....
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post #16584 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 08:27 PM
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@michael , forgive my ignorance, how do you do this procedure that's in your sig? TIA

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?

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post #16585 of 19027 Old 10-25-2015, 09:10 PM
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
All you need to do is edit out the unnecessary material between [quote...] and [/quote].

I find it especially annoying in build threads, when someone "quotes" a dozen pictures and the reply is something like "Great build!"

I hope that's what you meant.

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post #16586 of 19027 Old 10-26-2015, 05:17 AM
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I may be missing the jest of this answer, can not L+R+Sub(s) measurements be taken via REW preferences with multi-channel in? Curious, thanks....

With multi-ch in and the ASIO driver, you can pick any two channels to output a signal to and measure the combined response. With the Java driver and legacy connection (RCA jacks), you have to manipulate the AVR/AVP to measure two channels simultaneously by disconnecting one of the stereo RCA plugs. The L+R+Sub was just the primary example where Java driver users would use stereo to output to both L+R channels. With an HDMI connection and only stereo capability with the Java driver, you can avoid changing the jacks but you still have to change the mode on the AVR/AVP.

I should reiterate for anyone else reading that the +Sub in the above example is redirected bass from the main channels. Some people often confuse the measurement of two channels using ASIO because they want to pick the sub channel separately and forget that when bass management is employed, the signal below the crossover is automatically directed to the sub making it part of the measurement as well.

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post #16587 of 19027 Old 10-26-2015, 05:31 AM
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Can anyone think of why my MacBook doesn't recognize the umik anymore?

Blue light is on the umik but not recognized. No matter what setting I use.

I contacte minidsp but thy have no clue

Anyone ever send theirs back. How much does shipping cost?

Am I better off buying a new one?
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post #16588 of 19027 Old 10-26-2015, 05:55 AM
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Un-install and re-install the driver (assuming there is one and you can do that on a Mac)?
Try a different USB port?
Try a different cable?
Try on another computer?

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post #16589 of 19027 Old 10-26-2015, 05:59 AM
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Un-install and re-install the driver (assuming there is one and you can do that on a Mac)?
Try a different USB port?
Try a different cable?
Try on another computer?
Yeah no driver to uninstall reinstall.

I tried different port
I tried different cable.

Don't have another computer

I am contemplating buying a cheap refurb laptop dedicated to REw. Since I never had hdmi anyways.

Might try that first
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post #16590 of 19027 Old 10-26-2015, 06:05 AM
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I am contemplating buying a cheap refurb laptop dedicated to REw. Since I never had hdmi anyways.
That was my solution. Now I have an HTPC, so I just run everything (REW, HCFR, etc.) through that.
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