Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 562 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:07 PM
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Ok uninstalled both REW and Asio and reinstalled. It recognized hdmi. But not umik. So undid the little trick to get the umik to be recognized. By changing to Java etc.

Sure enough umik showing. But now hdmi says not connected again!!!

Also under umik advanced properties (in Windows) it's greyed out on 24bit 48000. I can't change it

This is getting very frustrating. I bought a new laptop just for the hdmi and I can't get it to work!!

Help Poe favor

Last edited by Brian Fineberg; 11-05-2015 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:12 PM
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The ASIO input problem is fixed in V5.14 beta 9. There isn't an easy solution to identifying the UMIK when going via ASIO4All. The inputs get the helpfully generic names "USB Audio Device 1", "USB Audio Device 2", but the same names are used for other generic USB soundcards so it is possible to have several "USB Audio Device 1" appear in the available input channels. I'll see if I can come up with anything to work around that at the weekend.
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Old 11-05-2015, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
The ASIO input problem is fixed in V5.14 beta 9. There isn't an easy solution to identifying the UMIK when going via ASIO4All. The inputs get the helpfully generic names "USB Audio Device 1", "USB Audio Device 2", but the same names are used for other generic USB soundcards so it is possible to have several "USB Audio Device 1" appear in the available input channels. I'll see if I can come up with anything to work around that at the weekend.
For me it's not the input. It sees the umik fine.

But it doesn't see the hdmi connection

It's either one or the other. HDMI no umik. Or no hdmi but umik. But not both at the same time.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:45 PM
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Overlays

Here are a couple overlays. The yellow is corner and red is front middle wall.
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Old 11-05-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
Here are a couple overlays. The yellow is corner and red is front middle wall.
Overlays of what? Sub only, or sub+something else? Regardless, the measurements don't look very good at all, either one.
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Overlays of what? Sub only, or sub+something else? Regardless, the measurements don't look very good at all, either one.
The sub alone with audyssey ON.

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Old 11-05-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Overlays of what? Sub only, or sub+something else? Regardless, the measurements don't look very good at all, either one.
My mistake the yellow is audyssey on in the corner. The red is audyssey off front middle wall. Only sub measurements.

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Old 11-05-2015, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
My mistake the yellow is audyssey on in the corner. The red is audyssey off front middle wall. Only sub measurements.

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Why do you keep showing us these measurements? They don't seem to be getting any better. What are your expectations?
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Old 11-05-2015, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Why do you keep showing us these measurements? They don't seem to be getting any better. What are your expectations?
I understand. If I get another KK will it extend the low end?

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Old 11-05-2015, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post
I understand. If I get another KK will it extend the low end?

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What are the dimensions of your room? What is the distance from your mlp to the front of your room? Ceiling height? Let's figure out where your nulls are and places that would work for your sub. Once we identify those places, put your sub at each spot it can go in the room and measure. Label each measurement so you remember the spot and post them all together. Make sure to turn off audyssey and any other enhancements while you do this.

When we determine the best measurement, that spot will be your subs new home. Then re-run audyssey entirely, then measure again and post that graph.

That graph will be as good as it gets for you until you get another sub or three and something to eq and time align them.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
What are the dimensions of your room? What is the distance from your mlp to the front of your room? Ceiling height? Let's figure out where your nulls are and places that would work for your sub. Once we identify those places, put your sub at each spot it can go in the room and measure. Label each measurement so you remember the spot and post them all together. Make sure to turn off audyssey and any other enhancements while you do this.

When we determine the best measurement, that spot will be your subs new home. Then re-run audyssey entirely, then measure again and post that graph.

That graph will be as good as it gets for you until you get another sub or three and something to eq and time align them.
My room is open to the kitchen. The combination is 5000 to 5200cf. I sit about 10ft from sub and mains.
I have taken measurements in all possible sub placements and it's either corner or front middle wall.
At this point I'll have to invest at least on another sub. The KK is so expensive though. I won it but can't afford a second one at $3000. Had it been SVS or something for that money I could get maybe 3.
Selling the KK would solve it but it's a really nice sub and besides it's $3000 for just one so winning was a blessing.
Eventually I guess.

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Old 11-05-2015, 06:13 PM
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Ok, what I'm getting at is you need to determine if where your sitting is a big part of the issue. Might want to take 3 or 4 measurements per possible sub location going a few inches in every direction to get a better view of what's going on. So if you can't move your subs, maybe living your couch a little bit might help etc.
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Old 11-05-2015, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by corradizo View Post
Ok, what I'm getting at is you need to determine if where your sitting is a big part of the issue. Might want to take 3 or 4 measurements per possible sub location going a few inches in every direction to get a better view of what's going on. So if you can't move your subs, maybe living your couch a little bit might help etc.
I have done that. The family room is not as big as the kitchen so I can only move the MLP just a couple of places. The sub measures the same on average. With such a room a second sub is my only option.

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Old 11-05-2015, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Yes that works. You don't need to remeasure though. Just click "Save" in the RTA panel and the response shows up in the main window.
Thanks Markus, especially with the save option, a lot easier....
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Old 11-05-2015, 09:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Ok uninstalled both REW and Asio and reinstalled. It recognized hdmi. But not umik. So undid the little trick to get the umik to be recognized. By changing to Java etc.

Sure enough umik showing. But now hdmi says not connected again!!!

Also under umik advanced properties (in Windows) it's greyed out on 24bit 48000. I can't change it

This is getting very frustrating. I bought a new laptop just for the hdmi and I can't get it to work!!

Help Poe favor
Brian I have the same issue with the input device (UMIK) grayed out, I just change the output device (receiver) to 24 bit 48000 so they match, I don't know if this makes a difference but it works for me. It was very frustrating for me as well in the beginning, I could get the input to work but no output and then the opposite. I just kept going over and over Jerry's trouble shooting section and it worked some how and never had a problem since. Good luck..
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Old 11-05-2015, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post
Ok uninstalled both REW and Asio and reinstalled. It recognized hdmi. But not umik. So undid the little trick to get the umik to be recognized. By changing to Java etc.

Sure enough umik showing. But now hdmi says not connected again!!!

Also under umik advanced properties (in Windows) it's greyed out on 24bit 48000. I can't change it

This is getting very frustrating. I bought a new laptop just for the hdmi and I can't get it to work!!

Help Poe favor
Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Brian I have the same issue with the input device (UMIK) grayed out, I just change the output device (receiver) to 24 bit 48000 so they match, I don't know if this makes a difference but it works for me. It was very frustrating for me as well in the beginning, I could get the input to work but no output and then the opposite. I just kept going over and over Jerry's trouble shooting section and it worked some how and never had a problem since. Good luck..
As ahblaza says, there is noting wrong with the mic configured at 24 bit 48000. Just make sure the output device is configured the same. The important thing is that they match.

No help for the ASIO problems, sorry. We have all been through the pains of trying to get it to work properly. I have had the most success by toggling to Java, exiting and re-starting REW, toggling back to ASIO, exiting and re-starting REW, and praying.

And asking for help from Edgar Allan Poe doesn't help, normally...
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Old 11-05-2015, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
My room is open to the kitchen. The combination is 5000 to 5200cf. I sit about 10ft from sub and mains.
I have taken measurements in all possible sub placements and it's either corner or front middle wall.
Did you measure with MultEQ off and Dynamic EQ off? Please post the .mdat showing all the locations you've measured.
By the way, what AVR do you have?

Quote:
Originally Posted by asere View Post
At this point I'll have to invest at least on another sub. The KK is so expensive though. I won it but can't afford a second one at $3000. Had it been SVS or something for that money I could get maybe 3.
Selling the KK would solve it but it's a really nice sub and besides it's $3000 for just one so winning was a blessing.
Eventually I guess.

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Spending that kind of money on a sub isn't necessary. Got to http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=home and you'll find DIY subs for a couple of hundred bucks that are better or as good as what you can buy in a store.
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Old 11-06-2015, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Did you measure with MultEQ off and Dynamic EQ off? Please post the .mdat showing all the locations you've measured.
By the way, what AVR do you have?



Spending that kind of money on a sub isn't necessary. Got to http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=home and you'll find DIY subs for a couple of hundred bucks that are better or as good as what you can buy in a store.
I measured with multeq off and no deq as my Onkyo 805 has no deq on board. It's powerful but Flintstone era lol.
I deleted all the measurements for the areas that were really horrible. Even I could see that. The best placement given the room size and were it can only be placed was the front right corner or front middle wall. I placed it in the corner at least for now. That is Ken Kreisel's suggestion because he made them for corner placement.( although I don't know if I can agree completely as all rooms are different). Ken doesn't even trust REW as he says he uses sophisticated measuring equipment from what he told me. Anyways that's a different subject.
Thanks for taking interest. My sub sounds really good. I just want the tactile feeling. I know it will never be possible unless I get more subs. I'll look into the DIY.

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Old 11-06-2015, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
I placed it in the corner at least for now. That is Ken Kreisel's suggestion because he made them for corner placement.( although I don't know if I can agree completely as all rooms are different). Ken doesn't even trust REW as he says he uses sophisticated measuring equipment from what he told me. Anyways that's a different subject.
It is but that sound like BS to me. You can't make a sub for corner placement (if it's not a corner horn that relies on walls). REW is as sophisticated as the user using it.

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Thanks for taking interest. My sub sounds really good. I just want the tactile feeling. I know it will never be possible unless I get more subs. I'll look into the DIY.

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Subs are really simple animals. The hard part is how to integrate them into a specific room.
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:03 AM
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I just want the tactile feeling. I know it will never be possible unless I get more subs.
Transducers?
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...s-transducers/
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by asere View Post
I measured with multeq off and no deq as my Onkyo 805 has no deq on board. It's powerful but Flintstone era lol.
I deleted all the measurements for the areas that were really horrible. Even I could see that. The best placement given the room size and were it can only be placed was the front right corner or front middle wall. I placed it in the corner at least for now. That is Ken Kreisel's suggestion because he made them for corner placement.( although I don't know if I can agree completely as all rooms are different). Ken doesn't even trust REW as he says he uses sophisticated measuring equipment from what he told me. Anyways that's a different subject.
Thanks for taking interest. My sub sounds really good. I just want the tactile feeling. I know it will never be possible unless I get more subs. I'll look into the DIY.

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Have you tried extreme nearfield placement (i.e. right behind your chair/couch)? This will give you the best response and the most tactile feedback.

Remind me, which KK sub do you have??
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Old 11-06-2015, 08:41 AM
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Have you tried extreme nearfield placement (i.e. right behind your chair/couch)? This will give you the best response and the most tactile feedback.
I agree. It doesn't get much better than this. Works with a single sub for a single listening position. Can be made to work for 2-3 seats with 2 subs.

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Old 11-06-2015, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As ahblaza says, there is noting wrong with the mic configured at 24 bit 48000. Just make sure the output device is configured the same. The important thing is that they match.

No help for the ASIO problems, sorry. We have all been through the pains of trying to get it to work properly. I have had the most success by toggling to Java, exiting and re-starting REW, toggling back to ASIO, exiting and re-starting REW, and praying.

And asking for help from Edgar Allan Poe doesn't help, normally...
hahaha

thanks for the response...Ive thrown in the towel with HDMI....so I returned the laptop to BB and will stick with the macbook

thanks anyhow
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Have you tried extreme nearfield placement (i.e. right behind your chair/couch)? This will give you the best response and the most tactile feedback.

Remind me, which KK sub do you have??
I cannot place it behind the couch because it would be in the path to the kitchen. Nothing like a dedicated room
The sub I have is the DXD12012.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:22 AM
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I cannot place it behind the couch because it would be in the path to the kitchen. Nothing like a dedicated room
The sub I have is the DXD12012.
Well, if I paid $3K for that sub (I know you didn't,but....) and had that kind of in-room response, I would be seriously ticked.

On their site, they don't even give the response of the sub...they just say "typical in room response".

What mic are you using and are you using a tripod or mic boom when measuring?? Maybe the crappiness of your response is in your measurement method since you keep saying it sounds good.
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Old 11-06-2015, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Well, if I paid $3K for that sub (I know you didn't,but....) and had that kind of in-room response, I would be seriously ticked.

On their site, they don't even give the response of the sub...they just say "typical in room response".

What mic are you using and are you using a tripod or mic boom when measuring?? Maybe the crappiness of your response is in your measurement method since you keep saying it sounds good.
I use Umik 1. I say it sounds good as far as not boomy, it's tight and really shakes the wall where the driver faces. I just want in the chest feel but looking at my graph it won't be possible with just one sub. In my case it's the room size that has a lot to do with it.
My room is about as big as yours and if I got it right you have 3 subs and a really NICE response. I just need more subs.

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Old 11-06-2015, 09:44 AM
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I only have two subs currently, the third is on the way.

Still, with one $3K sub you should be getting a much better response than that! Your response is down 20db from 40hz to 20hz ...a sub priced at that level should extend much lower than that.

Have you tried any nearfield measurements of the sub to confirm it is working properly? Put the mic about 2" from the dustcap on the driver and take a sweep.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
I only have two subs currently, the third is on the way.

Still, with one $3K sub you should be getting a much better response than that! Your response is down 20db from 40hz to 20hz ...a sub priced at that level should extend much lower than that.

Have you tried any nearfield measurements of the sub to confirm it is working properly? Put the mic about 2" from the dustcap on the driver and take a sweep.
I understand but won't the sub loose headroom in a room as big as mine? I will try the measurement like you mentioned as a test. Great point.

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Old 11-06-2015, 10:14 AM
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How big is your room? Mine is 5K cubic feet and I get this response with a single $3K sub (PSA T-18...not a fair fight though since the T-18 has 3 18" drivers). This is without Audyssey and CC+sub.
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Old 11-06-2015, 10:31 AM
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How big is your room? Mine is 5K cubic feet and I get this response with a single $3K sub (PSA T-18...not a fair fight though since the T-18 has 3 18" drivers). This is without Audyssey and CC+sub.
My room is around 5K cf too. Here is a graph with vertical at 50-150 and 45-100. I was told 50-100 is the way to go. Now the room response on the purple was taken awhile back with Audyssey On and to me looks good compared to the recent one I took earlier.

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