Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 586 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 01-24-2016, 06:27 AM
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
You could probably do all Ascends or HTDs for that $850 and be very happy with either. Both will give you more extension if that's what you're concerned with, I gathered that from the issue with the XO setting.
Well, I'd rather get nicer LCRs (one pair of bookshelves and one center) and turn my current mains into surrounds than spend that $850 on 5 speakers (4 identical bookshelves and one center channel). I'm after the total package, including SQ/imaging/dispersion/midrange/treble/etc. (not just bass output/extension). I can always upgrade the surrounds to match the mains if desired at a later date.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Well, I'd rather get nicer LCRs (one pair of bookshelves and one center) ... I can always upgrade the surrounds to match the mains if desired at a later date.
For HT having all the speakers the same family has some benefit. When I had a mix&match with mains much better than surrounds the discontinuity of sound during pans was very obvious. I found it very off putting. But I didn't buy them all at once, either.
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Old 01-24-2016, 08:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
I'm not sure if that's the case... here's measures with sub trim 4db hot:
Lets make sure I know what I am seeing.

If you have a plot of the sub only. Then, with all else being equal, you then take a Sub + Main, and the FR goes down in a area, then phase/timing is the only thing it can be.

Think about it. When two sources are present in the same frequency range, they either add (in phase), subtract (out of phase), or it stays the same (somewhat out of phase).

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Old 01-24-2016, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Lets make sure I know what I am seeing.

If you have a plot of the sub only. Then, with all else being equal, you then take a Sub + Main, and the FR goes down in a area, then phase/timing is the only thing it can be.

Think about it. When two sources are present in the same frequency range, they either add (in phase), subtract (out of phase), or it stays the same (somewhat out of phase).
Ok, but I tried the SW distance tweak and it didn't improve the dip under 80Hz. Also, if I reverse SW phase I get huge dips around 80Hz.

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Old 01-24-2016, 08:03 AM
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What else should I try?

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Old 01-24-2016, 08:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
What else should I try?
The distance tweak is no more than adding delay. The higher the distance setting, the more delay. Start with no distance (o delay) and work it higher incrementally, measuring each time.

Do you have mdat's available?

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Old 01-24-2016, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
The distance tweak is no more than adding delay. The higher the distance setting, the more delay. Start with no distance (o delay) and work it higher incrementally, measuring each time.

Do you have mdat's available?
not at the moment but this is my best result:
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
not at the moment but this is my best result:
Looking at those, and being a newbie, IIUC, your left and right mains are interfering at different points with the sub. They are not symmetrical? If that's the case then one delay would not be able to fix the issue.
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:01 PM
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Or one of the mains is out of phase?
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Looking at those, and being a newbie, IIUC, your left and right mains are interfering at different points with the sub. They are not symmetrical? If that's the case then one delay would not be able to fix the issue.
The speakers are pretty symmetrical relative to the TV/CC. However the MLP is to the right of the CC/TV by 2-3 feet.

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Or one of the mains is out of phase?
Michael
Not according to wiring or YPAO or any test tones on a BD.

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Old 01-24-2016, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
Looking at those, and being a newbie, IIUC, your left and right mains are interfering at different points with the sub. They are not symmetrical? If that's the case then one delay would not be able to fix the issue.
yet the CC+sub is off by the same amount as L+R+sub

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Old 01-24-2016, 08:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
However the MLP is to the right of the CC/TV by 2-3 feet.
I think the symmetry relative to the MLP is the only thing that matters. The point of the equilateral triangle is the MLP so the position relative to the TV doesn't matter with regard to the sound.

OTOH, I bet it looks good.
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:06 PM
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Couple of questions regarding measurements and graphs:

1. On all SPL graph should I put horizontal line at SPL level I measured? If yes, where do I read out SPL level of measurements?
2. Are decay/waterfall readings in direct corelation with peaks/nulls of frequency response graph? For example, lets say i have a nasty peak at 200 Hz, then I assume there will also be long reverberation/decay times at that frequency? But, is it possible to have a dip, for example at 1500 Hz, but at the same time have really long decay time at that frequency?
3. How can I figure on ETC graph which frequencies cause peaks that need to be tamed? I figured I can only read distances to reflection points, but that doesn't help much if I don't know which frequencies cause peaks. Someone mentioned that ETC is only useful for high frequencies, does it mean that it doesn't show low frequencies?
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Old 01-25-2016, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
3. How can I figure on ETC graph which frequencies cause peaks that need to be tamed? I figured I can only read distances to reflection points, but that doesn't help much if I don't know which frequencies cause peaks. Someone mentioned that ETC is only useful for high frequencies, does it mean that it doesn't show low frequencies?
Check out post #17547 regarding regarding ETC and the frequencies needing to be treated.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:49 AM
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Good morning,

Anyone want to take a quick look. do i need to eq anything?
Attached Thumbnails
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ID:	1208690  

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
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Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 01-25-2016 at 06:00 AM.
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Old 01-25-2016, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Good morning,

Anyone want to take a quick look. do i need to eq anything?

The response below 100Hz looks pretty flat, with a nice upward slope. The response above 100Hz looks typical. The dips are narrow, and probably can be controlled with room correction. How about showing a full-range measurement to 20KHz with smoothing applied, either 1/6 or variable?

Side comment: the black background makes the graph harder to read, at least on my tablet.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The response below 100Hz looks pretty flat, with a nice upward slope. The response above 100Hz looks typical. The dips are narrow, and probably can be controlled with room correction. How about showing a full-range measurement to 20KHz with smoothing applied, either 1/6 or variable?

Side comment: the black background makes the graph harder to read, at least on my tablet.
ok nice, ill take those measurements right now. i will also change the background to white. i added the image as an attachment instead so see if you it looks better. brb

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Old 01-25-2016, 06:13 AM
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ok nice, ill take those measurements right now. i will also change the background to white. i added the image as an attachment instead so see if you it looks better. brb
Yes, I can read the legend now.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The response below 100Hz looks pretty flat, with a nice upward slope. The response above 100Hz looks typical. The dips are narrow, and probably can be controlled with room correction. How about showing a full-range measurement to 20KHz with smoothing applied, either 1/6 or variable?

Side comment: the black background makes the graph harder to read, at least on my tablet.
Attached is full-range measurement to 20KHz with var smoothing and the other with 1/6 smoothing.
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Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
I think the symmetry relative to the MLP is the only thing that matters. The point of the equilateral triangle is the MLP so the position relative to the TV doesn't matter with regard to the sound.

OTOH, I bet it looks good.
Well, I have an unusual setup involving the bed as MLP and small bedroom (due to a back injury that just won't go away). However, if you see where I started in Jan 2015 (in terms of HT setup/calibration and placement/quality of speakers) when I got into this hobby, you'd be very impressed. I know I am.

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Old 01-25-2016, 07:28 AM
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Attached is full-range measurement to 20KHz with var smoothing and the other with 1/6 smoothing.
I find it amazing that your sub goes all the way to 20KHz. Can you hear that?
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Old 01-25-2016, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
... if you see where I started in Jan 2015 (in terms of HT setup/calibration and placement/quality of speakers) when I got into this hobby, you'd be very impressed. I know I am.
Indeed it is. Now we're just trying to get that last little bit more. Are the delays on your mains the same? Maybe you can address the dip by adjusting those delays.

Or, possibly, since this is HT, ignore the mains and just address the dip on the Center's graph. That might also improve the L/R.
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Old 01-25-2016, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
RISC_Taker

Only one word of caution from me - and it's not break-in. Always allow electronics/speakers/etc to fully acclimatize to the ambient temperature within your home before powering up...
This makes perfect sense to me, thank your for the input. I think I'm lucky in that the sub is coming from about 1.5 hours away so the temp should not be wildly different from when it's delivered, but I'll resist the urge and let it sit for a couple of hours while I set up the mic and laptop. Never know how hot or cold the storage facility/delivery vehicle might be.

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Old 01-25-2016, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Perhaps you can also just replace the amp (if that's what died):
http://www.parts-express.com/cat/sub...amplifiers/332

Michael
I plan to try to repair it if for no other reason than to learn something. I have the diaphragm and speaker out, just have to get in to the box and take a better look.

Thanks very much for the link, between that and what the guys on the Klipsch sub gave me, I'm hoping I can use it in my office surround system if I can resurrect it.

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Old 01-25-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Attached is full-range measurement to 20KHz with var smoothing and the other with 1/6 smoothing.
Not bad at all, MrGrey. I suspect it sounds pretty good. I don't see any obvious issues in the frequency response curves.

Next step would be to post both a waterfall (which would allow us to view bass resonance), and the ETC (which shows how well reflections are controlled). Instructions on how to generate both are in the guide. Please follow the posting guidelines.
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Old 01-25-2016, 01:20 PM
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Not bad at all, MrGrey. I suspect it sounds pretty good. I don't see any obvious issues in the frequency response curves.

Next step would be to post both a waterfall (which would allow us to view bass resonance), and the ETC (which shows how well reflections are controlled). Instructions on how to generate both are in the guide. Please follow the posting guidelines.
its sound incredible. this is the first time i can say i am really enjoying my system. it just sound right. thanks allot for the help. i will read the guidelines and be doing those graphs right now.
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Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP

Last edited by MrGrey; 01-25-2016 at 01:46 PM. Reason: Added waterfall graphs
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Old 01-25-2016, 02:34 PM
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its sound incredible. this is the first time i can say i am really enjoying my system. it just sound right. thanks allot for the help. i will read the guidelines and be doing those graphs right now.
Not bad at all. A little issue right at 60Hz. Wonder if that is ground hum from the 60Hz power? I doubt that it is audible.

Now on to the tough one, the ETC.
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Old 01-25-2016, 06:33 PM
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I'm using REW for first time and still running through setup. I'm not at home, So excuse me if I mistate something. I am using the step by step guide. It states to set REW output level to L+R+sub under preferences I think after measuring pink noise, and then increasing volume on avr up to 90db. Problem is I don't see that drop down menu for L+R plus sub. It has numbers on output, and the first one has subs and rt front, number two has only left front and subs, number three has no out put...I'm kind of sick how to get both fronts and sub outputting at this point. Remember I'm still in the setup stages.

IM trying to set the "REW Output, "L+R+ Subs." Ido not see anywhere fo rme to do that. Under REW PREFERENCES

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Old 01-25-2016, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
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Not bad at all. A little issue right at 60Hz. Wonder if that is ground hum from the 60Hz power? I doubt that it is audible.

Now on to the tough one, the ETC.
Hi Jerry

One question, where is the recommended place to buy MiniDSP UMIK-1, from MiniDSP $75 or from Cross-specturm $100? One is w/o calibrated one with calibrated. Is UMIK-1 better than dayton UMM-6? Thanks.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/aco...urement/umik-1

http://cross-spectrum.com/measuremen...ated_umik.html
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