Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 590 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #17671 of 17698 Old 02-09-2016, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by etc6849 View Post
Every time I've added more absorption I've had gains in sound quality. Doesn't make things sound dead at all. If anything makes things sound real, as in scarily life-like.
Amen to that. Stereo (or multichannel) is essentially made in (and therefore for) very dry (and even near-anechoic) environments. While it's true that spaciousness and envelopment is caused by reflections, these reflections should come from the recording, not the room. This is where the 'wide dispersion loudspeaker' and 'room reflections are good' theory falls flat on its face.
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post #17672 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 07:12 AM
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I added the 8" OC 703 side panels and fixed the impulse peaks too.

For some reason when I added the side panels it messed up the waterfall. Could be because the side panels are just setting on top of the bass traps and must be wobbling at certain low frequencies.

This is very interesting, I've never had my waterfall plot look worse after adding absorption! I even rerun Dirac, and same results. Going to eliminate air gap behind panel tonight as that should stiffen it up.

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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
The frequency response graphs and the waterfalls are indeed impressive. The left channel ETC is showing a peculiar reflection towards the middle of the graph. Any idea what that is? Otherwise, the ETC's look nice as well. Great job!
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post #17673 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 08:20 AM
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Might just be LF noise. Alway good to run each measurement a couple of times and verify that the results are constant over time. I always do at least two consecutive measurements.
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post #17674 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 09:04 AM
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It could be, but I did 10 measurements (was trying to fix impulse plot at the same time). I will make sure all ventilation is off and retry before moving panels against wall.

EDIT: I think I remember tucking the mic's USB cord into the chair. Now that could really be messing up my measurements! Thanks a bunch for jogging my memory. Tucking the cord in between the chair back and arm was really stupid!

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Might just be LF noise. Alway good to run each measurement a couple of times and verify that the results are constant over time. I always do at least two consecutive measurements.

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post #17675 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by RISC_Taker View Post
Just a quick note on customer service from the UMIK-1 folks.

I received my microphone order on 12/28, started setting up everything in earnest on 12/29. When I went to the site to download the configuration file for the microphone, I could not enter the number from the label. The label had been smudged at some point, and the first number in the sequence had been rubbed off. Tried a UPC code reader but the curvature of the mic could not be read by my phone.

I emailed their support, gave them my order number and explained the issue I was having. Less than a day later I had a response that solved the problem.

Very helpful, very responsive.

Now if only I could get the HDMI connection from laptop to receiver to be 5.1 as it used to be, prior to Win10 instead of 2.0 stereo....

I'll figure that one out though, lots of info on that via google.

Interesting, was this directly from miniDSP ? I have the exact same problem with the number being smudged off. And I have also tried a code reader before even reading this post, but the curvature was in the way.

Difference is I emailed them on Saturday this past weekend (with my order number), but I am still waiting to hear from them. I got an email from support@minidsp.desk-mail.com as confirmation there is a case opened, but no follow up / resolution yet.

I guess if I don't hear by Saturday, I'll send them another email.

I used the link from the Web site - Support / Contact US, did you maybe use another email address ?

How did you solve the problem, were they able to give you the correct serial / calibration files, or in some other way ?
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post #17676 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 02:13 PM
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I have not read yet through all the 590 pages (I will by end of this week, I promise ! ), so not sure if this yet been posted.

Many have problems with ASIO detecting their UMIK-1 device (as in Idle / Not active) in the ASIO control panel.

When I tried to use REW / ASIO for the first time, I tried to use HDMI from PC to my AVR , and UMIK-1.

My Playback devices were configured to use all 7 speakers (L,C,R, 2xSR, 2xSB).

I got the same problem with my UMIK not being detected as active by ASIO. I tried the workarounds in the "Getting started with REW guide" but interestingly as soon as my UMIK would become active, my HDMI output would go idle, if I was able to get my HDMI audio output active, my UMIK would go idle, no matter what I did.

I was able to finally resolve this when I tried going to Windows Playback devices, clicking on Configure, going to Speaker Setup, and starting to remove speakers to be used (starting from the surround back, and trying again, then removed surround rear and tried again, at some point .. maybe when I was left with L/R only, all of a sudden it worked .. I then went back and started re-enabling speakers in the reverse order and it still worked.

So now I have all speakers enabled, and restarted my PC / REW several times, but have no issues at all. Full HDMI output and UMIK active and working.

Anyway, just wanted to post this as maybe another type of a workaround people can try if having problems. I have no idea whether it will work for everyone though
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post #17677 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 03:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alextr75 View Post
Interesting, was this directly from miniDSP ? I have the exact same problem with the number being smudged off. And I have also tried a code reader before even reading this post, but the curvature was in the way.

Difference is I emailed them on Saturday this past weekend (with my order number), but I am still waiting to hear from them. I got an email from support@minidsp.desk-mail.com as confirmation there is a case opened, but no follow up / resolution yet.

I guess if I don't hear by Saturday, I'll send them another email.

I used the link from the Web site - Support / Contact US, did you maybe use another email address ?

How did you solve the problem, were they able to give you the correct serial / calibration files, or in some other way ?
I sent an email to support@minidsp.desk-mail.com, and they replied with the number I needed, which allowed me to download the calibration file I needed.

I included the Amazon order number and two pics of the smudged number

Hope you hear from them soon!

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Last edited by RISC_Taker; 02-10-2016 at 03:55 PM. Reason: Added info to reply.
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post #17678 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 03:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RISC_Taker View Post
I sent an email to support@minidsp.desk-mail.com, and they replied with the number I needed, which allowed me to download the calibration file I needed.

I included the Amazon order number and two pics of the smudged number

Hope you hear from them soon!

RT
I see, thanks. Yep that is the same email address I got the support ticket confirmation email from after I used their web site to create the ticket.
I just replied to the same email asking if there is any progress and explaining the issue again.

I too sent two pictures of the smudged serial number. Only difference I guess is I ordered straight from miniDSP web site where you went through Amazon. That should hopefully not change much in how they respond to their customers.

I hope they are just too busy these days, and will get a response soon.
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post #17679 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 05:09 PM
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I hope they are just too busy these days, and will get a response soon.
They are based in Hong Kong, and mon-wed were Chinese new year holidays in Hong Kong. Businesses will open on Thursday, so my guess is you will hear back soon now
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post #17680 of 17698 Old 02-10-2016, 07:24 PM
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You were right, I just got an email they are back from the holidays and with the serial number they have on records. It's the same one I tried to guess it is, so my measurements so far were all correct.

Good support though, nevertheless.
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post #17681 of 17698 Old 02-11-2016, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Amen to that. Stereo (or multichannel) is essentially made in (and therefore for) very dry (and even near-anechoic) environments. While it's true that spaciousness and envelopment is caused by reflections, these reflections should come from the recording, not the room. This is where the 'wide dispersion loudspeaker' and 'room reflections are good' theory falls flat on its face.
Yes, but the origin (direction) of the recording reflections/delays in 2 channel stereo is going to be from the speaker locations, not from a lateral direction where such should emanate from for the illusion of spaciousness.

In a perfect world, you would strip out the delayed information in the recording and send it out to laterally positioned sources.
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post #17682 of 17698 Old 02-11-2016, 10:50 AM
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Yes, but the origin (direction) of the recording reflections/delays in 2 channel stereo is going to be from the speaker locations, not from a lateral direction where such should emanate from for the illusion of spaciousness.
Using the room as a mechanical effects processor mitigates the fundamental issues with 2-channel stereo but the solution is multichannel.

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In a perfect world, you would strip out the delayed information in the recording and send it out to laterally positioned sources.
That's why multiple upmixing algorithms were invented.

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post #17683 of 17698 Old 02-11-2016, 11:39 AM
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Sorry if this is a stupid question (nothing in the help file). There is a number in the lower left corner of the main window which has a format of xxx/124MB, where the xxx is continually changing. Can someone tell me what this means?

Ion
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post #17684 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 07:13 AM
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Using the room as a mechanical effects processor mitigates the fundamental issues with 2-channel stereo but the solution is multichannel.
Agreed.
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That's why multiple upmixing algorithms were invented.
By who? For 2 ch audio?

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post #17685 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 07:21 AM
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By who? For 2 ch audio?
Dolby Pro Logic 2, DTS Neo, Trifield, Illusonic, ...

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post #17686 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 07:35 AM
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Dolby Pro Logic 2, DTS Neo, Trifield, Illusonic, ...
Are you talking about a system that actually stripes out the delay/harmonic data or merely a surround processor that uses all the channel data? If the later, sounds like those cheesy built in hall effects that have been around a while now.

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Marcus, what would be of interest to me is a processor that has (2) RCA line level inputs and (2) outputs that could then be used for (2) rear channel simulated sources.

The processor would hopefully have delay and ambiance settings and a interface like a miniDSP that could be accessed via USB on a computer.

Does such a thing exist?

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post #17688 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 07:55 AM
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Are you talking about a system that actually stripes out the delay/harmonic data or merely a surround processor that uses all the channel data? If the later, sounds like those cheesy built in hall effects that have been around a while now.
"delay/harmonic data"? Please elaborate.

Upmixers can be quite sophisticated although the Dolby/DTS guys don't publish details. You'll find plenty on Trifield though. Google "Gerzon" and "Ambisonics".

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post #17689 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 07:56 AM
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Marcus, what would be of interest to me is a processor that has (2) RCA line level inputs and (2) outputs that could then be used for (2) rear channel simulated sources.

The processor would hopefully have delay and ambiance settings and a interface like a miniDSP that could be accessed via USB on a computer.

Does such a thing exist?
http://www.illusonic.com/audio-processors/iap-4/

Markus

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post #17690 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 08:12 AM
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OK, something thats not $22,000

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post #17691 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 08:17 AM
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You can do Trifield with Acourate Convolver for example. Generally experimenting with M/S extraction can lead to outstanding results.

Markus

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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
You can do Trifield with Acourate Convolver for example. Generally experimenting with M/S extraction can lead to outstanding results.
@jim19611961 wesayso's setup on diya uses M/S for ambience IIRC so you could review his thread for some info on that
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You can do Trifield with Acourate Convolver for example. Generally experimenting with M/S extraction can lead to outstanding results.
I am a newbie when it comes to this area, so I have no idea what your talking about

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post #17694 of 17698 Old Yesterday, 08:31 AM
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I am a newbie when it comes to this area, so I have no idea what your talking about
Split stereo into mid and side signals (M/S) then process those signals and send them to speakers in the back (or other locations). Lots to discover!

Markus

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@jim19611961 wesayso's setup on diya uses M/S for ambience IIRC so you could review his thread for some info on that
Found it, thanks. Turns wesayso and I had worked on another project so we are already acquainted.

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Hi everyone,

I just had my room treated and have been playing around with REW. I took some snap shots to see if I'm looking alright. This looks much better to me, but I figured I would get more expert opinions.

These are the screen shots I've grabbed so far.

Green = No treatment/No EQ
DK Blue = Treatment/No EQ
Red = Treatmen/EQ(Yamaha 5100 YPAO)

Teal = JUST SUB Treatment/ No EQ
Purple = SUB Treatment/EQ
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Hi everyone,

I just had my room treated and have been playing around with REW. I took some snap shots to see if I'm looking alright. This looks much better to me, but I figured I would get more expert opinions.

These are the screen shots I've grabbed so far.

Green = No treatment/No EQ
DK Blue = Treatment/No EQ
Red = Treatmen/EQ(Yamaha 5100 YPAO)

Teal = JUST SUB Treatment/ No EQ
Purple = SUB Treatment/EQ
To be honest, I don't see a significant difference between the green and dark blue waterfalls. The EQ has flattened the response curve. Nothing seems to have put a dent into the issue at ~50Hz.

Can you describe the treatments you added?
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post #17698 of 17698 Old Today, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jim19611961 View Post
Yes, but the origin (direction) of the recording reflections/delays in 2 channel stereo is going to be from the speaker locations, not from a lateral direction where such should emanate from for the illusion of spaciousness.

In a perfect world, you would strip out the delayed information in the recording and send it out to laterally positioned sources.
Agreed. I was worried about this when i added GIK 244 traps to my first reflection points after already having traps in the corners, and i didnt think it became too dead at all.

I cant stress how important and beneficial it really is to treat the room and take simple measurements. I was thinking of adding a couple more subs, but after measuring and finding the best spots for my 2 subs, i really found that i dont need 2 more subs like i thought i did. I still may add them though if i can since it could only help the room, but it definitely opened my eyes more. Plus, room treatments dont become obsolete over time....it will likely be one of the few constants in a setup over many many years.
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