Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 634 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #18991 of 20735 Old 07-08-2016, 05:40 PM
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Here is my graph. What do you guys think. How can I fix that dip at 40hz?
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post #18992 of 20735 Old 07-08-2016, 06:10 PM
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Well, without telling us much about your setup we can only guess...like, if you have crossover at 40 Hz, you might want to try and flip phase for 180. Or if that is not the case move the sub somewhere else.

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post #18993 of 20735 Old 07-08-2016, 08:59 PM
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I'd worry more about the one at 90, which is probably more audible.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #18994 of 20735 Old 07-09-2016, 01:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bori View Post
Here is my graph. What do you guys think. How can I fix that dip at 40hz?
Move the sub to a different location and/or get additional subs.

But, is the 40Hz dip observable at all points within the listening area? How does sub and satellite sum (measure single speakers plus sub)?

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post #18995 of 20735 Old 07-09-2016, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bori View Post
Here is my graph. What do you guys think. How can I fix that dip at 40hz?
Remarkable; that's almost a mirror of mine. If relocating the sub doesn't help, Jerry believes a second one would improve the room response.

Last edited by bmcn; 07-09-2016 at 10:25 AM.
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post #18996 of 20735 Old 07-09-2016, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Remarkable; that's is almost a mirror of mine. If relocating the sub doesn't help, Jerry believes a second one would improve the room response.
Or quoting a good friend of mine, Kbarnes701, "One can never have too much woofage..."
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post #18997 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Yes.

HDMI Output 3 in REW, with bass management engaged (CC set to "small").

Also, your graphs should have 5dB steps on the left hand side, 10-300hz, no smoothing.
Hi Alan and others

I'm just starting to use REW to evaluate the subwoofers in my home theater system and I have a few questions for you:

1) In which window do I set HDMI Output 3 in REW? Could you point me to the page in the REW guide where I can see this? The guide has so much detail in it that I am having trouble seeing the forest for the trees!

2) When I take my REW measurements by connecting my laptop to the Aux HDMI input on my Marantz 8802A AVR, how do I turn Audyssey on and off when I take the measurements?

I have taken a couple of preliminary measurements and appear to see a couple of dips in the graph, but I do not know if this is with Audyssey engaged or not. My system is calibrated with Audyssey and I did not do anything to disable it, but I'm also not sure if that means that Audyssey is always engaged for all inputs on the AVR and therefore every reading that I've taken to date has been with Audyssey engaged. I am asking this question because if Audyssey was engaged when I took the readings, I'd have expected a flatter response than I saw. I know that the center channel was not engaged at that time, so hopefully that will help flatten the curve.

I will post some of the graphs that I've gotten to date when I am at home and can use the computer that contains the files. But I figured that I'd pose the questions above so that I can get a response sooner.

Thanks for your help guys.

Cal68

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post #18998 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cal68 View Post
Hi Alan and others

I'm just starting to use REW to evaluate the subwoofers in my home theater system and I have a few questions for you:

1) In which window do I set HDMI Output 3 in REW? Could you point me to the page in the REW guide where I can see this? The guide has so much detail in it that I am having trouble seeing the forest for the trees!

2) When I take my REW measurements by connecting my laptop to the Aux HDMI input on my Marantz 8802A AVR, how do I turn Audyssey on and off when I take the measurements?

I have taken a couple of preliminary measurements and appear to see a couple of dips in the graph, but I do not know if this is with Audyssey engaged or not. My system is calibrated with Audyssey and I did not do anything to disable it, but I'm also not sure if that means that Audyssey is always engaged for all inputs on the AVR and therefore every reading that I've taken to date has been with Audyssey engaged. I am asking this question because if Audyssey was engaged when I took the readings, I'd have expected a flatter response than I saw. I know that the center channel was not engaged at that time, so hopefully that will help flatten the curve.

I will post some of the graphs that I've gotten to date when I am at home and can use the computer that contains the files. But I figured that I'd pose the questions above so that I can get a response sooner.

Thanks for your help guys.

Cal68
In REW, when you open the measurement window, there is an Output drop-down that allows you to choose the channel to be measured.

To turn Audyssey off, open the 8802 menu, select Audio, scroll down to Audyssey, and you can toggle Audyssey on or off. If you are using Audyssey to calibrate your system, then leaving Audyssey on for the measurements produces more meaningful results.
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post #18999 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 02:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
In REW, when you open the measurement window, there is an Output drop-down that allows you to choose the channel to be measured.

To turn Audyssey off, open the 8802 menu, select Audio, scroll down to Audyssey, and you can toggle Audyssey on or off. If you are using Audyssey to calibrate your system, then leaving Audyssey on for the measurements produces more meaningful results.
Thank you very much Jerry. Much appreciated.

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post #19000 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 03:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
In REW, when you open the measurement window, there is an Output drop-down that allows you to choose the channel to be measured.

To turn Audyssey off, open the 8802 menu, select Audio, scroll down to Audyssey, and you can toggle Audyssey on or off. If you are using Audyssey to calibrate your system, then leaving Audyssey on for the measurements produces more meaningful results.
Jerry is spot on, as usual. However, I believe it is worthwhile to take Audyssey OFF measurements if you are willing to move some stuff around to get a better response. You should try to get your response as flat as possible with speaker/subwoofer placement and room treatments before running Audyssey. This gives Audyssey less work to do and will provide you with a better overall result.
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post #19001 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Jerry is spot on, as usual. However, I believe it is worthwhile to take Audyssey OFF measurements if you are willing to move some stuff around to get a better response. You should try to get your response as flat as possible with speaker/subwoofer placement and room treatments before running Audyssey. This gives Audyssey less work to do and will provide you with a better overall result.
Thanks Alan. I do not have many choices for subwoofer placement in my HT, but I will try the one or two options that I have and see what difference it makes.

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post #19002 of 20735 Old 07-13-2016, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Jerry is spot on, as usual. However, I believe it is worthwhile to take Audyssey OFF measurements if you are willing to move some stuff around to get a better response. You should try to get your response as flat as possible with speaker/subwoofer placement and room treatments before running Audyssey. This gives Audyssey less work to do and will provide you with a better overall result.
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Thanks Alan. I do not have many choices for subwoofer placement in my HT, but I will try the one or two options that I have and see what difference it makes.
- To assess where you are now, measure with Audyssey on.
- To use REW to improve things (moving speakers, adding treatments), measure with Audyssey off. After changes are made, re-run the Audyssey calibration, and re-measure with Audyssey on.

It is a somewhat tedious, iterative process, but can yield pleasing results.
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post #19003 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:27 AM
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Hi there

I'm setting up REW for the first time and need a little help please. I'm using a minidsp umik, 90 degree cal file and a hdmi connection between my laptop and my AVP.

I'm confused by what I need to choose under soundcard preferences with regards to

1) Drivers
2) Input device
3) Output device

Thanks very much.
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post #19004 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
Hi there

I'm setting up REW for the first time and need a little help please. I'm using a minidsp umik, 90 degree cal file and a hdmi connection between my laptop and my AVP.

I'm confused by what I need to choose under soundcard preferences with regards to

1) Drivers
2) Input device
3) Output device

Thanks very much.
Please read Jerry's guide linked in his signature one post above yours.
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post #19005 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Please read Jerry's guide linked in his signature one post above yours.
Brilliant stuff. I had assumed that Jerry's guide was the same as the REW one which doesn't answer the questions clearly enough for my simple brain.

Jerry's guide looks like it will walk me through it.

Thanks again to you and to Jerry for putting together such a fantastic resource.
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post #19006 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post
I have a laptop with Windows 7 and REW, too for the same reason. It's a stable operating system and it works great for me.

But I know that these builds will eventually make their way to the regular release, so for everyone using Windows 10, "if" there is indeed a bug, they will all eventually see it.

I'm trying to figure out if there's a bug or not but only have the two PC's right now and need more data.

If anyone out there has a dual boot PC or an additional PC they'd like to install the latest Windows 10 Insider build on and report back as to whether REW and ASIO4ALL works, it would be greatly appreciated so we can report the bug to the Windows Insider team and hopefully get it fixed before it hits everyone else's Windows 10 installations.

Nice to hear from you, @sdrucker

Thanks,

--J

If it helps I borrowed my buddy's laptop with windows 10 to use REW and my UMIK-1 to setup my room. At first it seemed like the setup went fine until I installed the ASIO4ALL drivers. After I did that I could never get both the mic and my Onkyo AVR to work at the same time. One or both would always be idle. I only have a desktop pc downstairs with windows 7 so it's too far to do measurements with. I spent over 2 hours trying to get REW and ASIO4ALL to work on that laptop. Including uninstalling everything and reinstalling it. I got so frustrated I gave up. Was going to take another stab at it this weekend.
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post #19007 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Does the computer that is not working have an Intel or AMD processor?

So far, Jerry is the only one who "has" been able to get his setup working with Windows 10 and is using an AMD processor.

I have Intel and I believe the others who have tried are also using Intel processors.

I have no clue as to why it would make a difference but the more data we get the more it looks like it does.

Thanks for trying. I've also reinstalled Windows 10, ASIO4ALL, REW, etc, and simply cannot get it to work on my PC with the newer Windows 10 builds.

I have a very bad feeling that as the updates start to roll out to the masses this thread is going to be inundated with support requests and at this time I have no answers.

Thanks again,

--J
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post #19008 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post
Does the computer that is not working have an Intel or AMD processor?

So far, Jerry is the only one who "has" been able to get his setup working with Windows 10 and is using an AMD processor.

I have Intel and I believe the others who have tried are also using Intel processors.

I have no clue as to why it would make a difference but the more data we get the more it looks like it does.

Thanks for trying. I've also reinstalled Windows 10, ASIO4ALL, REW, etc, and simply cannot get it to work on my PC with the newer Windows 10 builds.

I have a very bad feeling that as the updates start to roll out to the masses this thread is going to be inundated with support requests and at this time I have no answers.

Thanks again,

--J
My test computer was AMD, but I probably just went through the setup to fast, or something?

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post #19009 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:04 PM - Thread Starter
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That's interesting.

I wish I was closer to @AustinJerry so I could take a look at his setup. I'd love to see if anything is different and try to figure out why his is the only one that's working (out of the limited data we have at this time).

I don't want to start doing technical support for this problem in this thread and totally derail it, but I don't see how the speed of your installation would affect the situation.

If you have any specific questions or want to try anything, feel free to PM me any time.

Thanks,

--J
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post #19010 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post
If it helps I borrowed my buddy's laptop with windows 10 to use REW and my UMIK-1 to setup my room. At first it seemed like the setup went fine until I installed the ASIO4ALL drivers. After I did that I could never get both the mic and my Onkyo AVR to work at the same time. One or both would always be idle. I only have a desktop pc downstairs with windows 7 so it's too far to do measurements with. I spent over 2 hours trying to get REW and ASIO4ALL to work on that laptop. Including uninstalling everything and reinstalling it. I got so frustrated I gave up. Was going to take another stab at it this weekend.
Have a Win 10 laptop that runs REW smoothly. First few attempts at install were unsuccessful; iirc, the laptop's HDMI out wasn't visible to ASIO. After following Jerry's guide to the letter it began working without fail. Unless a recent Windows update broke something, i anticipate you'll get it to work.
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post #19011 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi everybody,

I have some news.

Some of you may be aware of this already but Herb Singleton from Cross Spectrum labs has not been selling calibrated UMIK-1 or UMM-6 mics for a while now due to an illness one of his coworkers has had for quite some time.

His coworker is better now and they have a limited supply of UMIK-1 mics now available and they are shipping within 24-48 hours. So, for anyone who has been waiting, be sure to pick one up quickly.

They will be working through their backlog and trying to get more mics calibrated so they don't run out for a while again but they do have some available now.

This brings me to another point. When I started this thread and in the first few posts I recommended the UMM-6 mic over the UMIK-1 because it measured better and had better performance at the time.

Unfortunately, I've had several reports (and so has Herb) that the UMM-6 mics are breaking either in shipment or after using them for a while. In fact, my very own UMM-6 mic broke and I had to tape it back together.

I can no longer recommend that mic and now recommend the UMIK-1. The advantage is better build quality and it also has a lower noise floor so you don't have to measure as loudly (or get the room quite as quiet) for the same results.

I received a UMIK-1 for testing a few days ago and after looking at the calibration report it looks like they've improved a lot from when this thread was originally started, if mine is any indication of the frequency response and quality.

As always, if you do experience any problems with either mic, I'd like to know but I believe enough UMIK-1 mics are out there and in use to feel confident it is the right choice at this time.

Thanks,

--J
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post #19012 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:31 PM
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My UMM-6 is broken as well, although gaffer's tape is holding it together. Because of the fragile nature of the UMM-6, I have been recommending the UMIK-1 in my guide for quite a while. The guide also has a link to a comparison of REW measurements using both mics, and I was never able to discern a significant difference between the two.

Add to this the fact that a number of us are now using MiniDSP products that require the UMIK-1, I would never recommend the UMM-6 again.

BTW, have you ever considered experimenting with Dirac Live with your 8802 by adding the MiniDSP 88A?
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post #19013 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
My UMM-6 is broken as well, although gaffer's tape is holding it together. Because of the fragile nature of the UMM-6, I have been recommending the UMIK-1 in my guide for quite a while. The guide also has a link to a comparison of REW measurements using both mics, and I was never able to discern a significant difference between the two.

It's a bad sign when accidentally dropping the UMM-6 about two feet onto a plush carpet is enough to break it....that's what happened with me about two years ago.

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post #19014 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 12:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xFreshEntrailsX View Post
If it helps I borrowed my buddy's laptop with windows 10 to use REW and my UMIK-1 to setup my room. At first it seemed like the setup went fine until I installed the ASIO4ALL drivers. After I did that I could never get both the mic and my Onkyo AVR to work at the same time. One or both would always be idle.
One common cause of that is not having ASIO4All in its 'Advanced' mode, i.e. not clicking on the wrench symbol.
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post #19015 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jevansoh View Post
I received a UMIK-1 for testing a few days ago and after looking at the calibration report it looks like they've improved a lot from when this thread was originally started, if mine is any indication of the frequency response and quality
Curious if you could somehow post your UMIK-1 cal file so I could compare it to mine.
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post #19016 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Curious if you could somehow post your UMIK-1 cal file so I could compare it to mine.
? Calibration files are unique for each mic. What do you expect to accomplish by comparing calibration files?
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post #19017 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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One common cause of that is not having ASIO4All in its 'Advanced' mode, i.e. not clicking on the wrench symbol.
Hi John,

My setup "appears" to be working (and is in advanced mode) but on the last 10-15 Windows Insider build previews only 2 channels show up instead of 8 and none of them actually output sound.

The meters show in REW that sound is being output and everything looks normal but there simply is no sound.

This is the problem. If there is any way you could test on your end with a Windows 10 Insider Preview build I would be forever grateful.

Thanks,

--J
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post #19018 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
What do you expect to accomplish by comparing calibration files?
Satisfy my curiosity.
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post #19019 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Curious if you could somehow post your UMIK-1 cal file so I could compare it to mine.
Herb sent me a printed out report of the 1/3rd octave calibration and that's all I've had the time to look at so far. I haven't actually downloaded the file yet but I can tell you it looks very similar to all the others.

Looking at the actual calibration printout I can see 5hz is -8.18db, 10hz is -2.29db, and 20hz is +.37db. 25hz to 200hz is about +1db on average. 1khz is perfect and then as you get higher in frequency (10khz) it has to be boosted up to +2.73db. 20khz is -2.11db and 25khz is -55.81.

I'd be happy to post it once I download the actual cal file but as Jerry said, I don't really see how it would help. Let me know if you still want it.

Thanks,

--J
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post #19020 of 20735 Old 07-15-2016, 01:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdrucker View Post
It's a bad sign when accidentally dropping the UMM-6 about two feet onto a plush carpet is enough to break it....that's what happened with me about two years ago.
I never even dropped mine. Just normal use and handling it caused it to break! I do take a lot of measurements, though.

--J
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