Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 638 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #19111 of 19132 Old 07-22-2016, 11:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
if that graph is what you're hearing then it probably sounds pretty unbalanced.

If I were you I'd take measurements at different positions both with and without your EQ on so you can understand the behaviour of your current setup. This means

- take 3 measurements across the listening area (move mic across the width of the seat but stick to the same height and distance from rear wall), one of these should be the position you've used above, 0.5-1m either side is good
- take a measurement with the mic moved forward (towards the screen) by 0.5-1.0m
- take a measurement with the mic raised up say 50cm from the listening position

repeat for SW and a main channel (you can choose, many people use C for a film setup) + SW

show the with and without eq traces
show the layout of your room and mark on the positions of the mic/subs

this will give you the data you need to decide what to do next


Thank you, I'll get it done.

How do I choose SW + centre?
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post #19112 of 19132 Old 07-22-2016, 11:36 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
^ And to add to Matt's excellent recommendations, when you are finished with the measurements, consider making the REW MDAT file available here for download. Many of us use Dropbox.com for sharing measurement files. This will allow us to view the measurements in the format we are accustomed to.
Thanks, will try that.
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post #19113 of 19132 Old 07-22-2016, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by indus1 View Post

Thank you, I'll get it done.

How do I choose SW + centre?
Center set to small - Audio output #3
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post #19114 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 01:16 AM
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Center set to small - Audio output #3

Really? I thought channel 3 was just centre speaker? Does that mean channels 1,2 and 3 all include the SW as well as L, R and C respectively?

Thanks
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post #19115 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 01:18 AM
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For some reason I now can't get any sound out of my sub using channel output 4.

What am I missing??
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post #19116 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 01:35 AM
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Hmm, I've tried to use the same UMIK that I've used for REW to run a dirac calibration on my 88a and it's no longer recognizing the mic.

The umik actually came with my 88a and I've used it many many times without any problems. I've also just used it with REW this morning.

Have I altered something in it by using it with REW? I did load the suggested calibration file for REW.

Btw, I run REW on a windows 10 and dirac software on a Mac.

Thanks
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post #19117 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 01:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
Really? I thought channel 3 was just centre speaker? Does that mean channels 1,2 and 3 all include the SW as well as L, R and C respectively?

Thanks
Bass management converts a C input channel to a C+SW output channel

Channel 4 is the LFE channel, ie an input channel

The SW output channel is LFE summed with the low pass of each input channel
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post #19118 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 02:58 AM
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Windows, unfortunately, offers only mono and stereo even when the soundcard has been configured for multichannel.
Spend last evening with some deep debugging on Windows and it seems this is true. On Win JavaSound only sees mono/stereo 8bit/16bit 44.1k from the DirectSound implementation. No 96kHz, no 24bit, not more than 2 channels irrespective of how the interface is configured on the OS. Looks like no extended DirectSound interfaces are supported. There is some open-source project providing JavaSound over ASIO on Windows, but it is requiring native interfacing anyway, so makes no much difference to the table, so I didn't look at it further. According to OpenJDK mercurial repository JavaSound wasn't touched at least for the last decade (except one test that was failing irregularly), so it seems there is no interest on improving it and chances it will be done someday are close to zero.

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Looking at a way of exposing that to the user is on my todo list for OS X.
Nice to know. I know there are several people here who run Windows from their Macs only to have the ability to do multichannel measurements with REW. On Linux it seems that multichannel is also supported well with JavaSound. Windows in not anymore on the absolute majority of computers so constantly repeating that JavaSound is not supporting multichannel while it is only true for only a part of PCs in users hands leads us nowhere. That was my point.
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post #19119 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 06:13 AM
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What piece of equipment would do this?

I bet there is some piece of equipment that can help me improve my setup. But I don't know what it is. Can you help me?

My current setup:
I have REW on my laptop. But my laptop does not have any HDMI ports. It does have two USBs. I plug my UMIK into one of the laptop's USB ports. With the laptop's headphone jack, I output the REW signals to the AVR's Left Right audio input. But plugging into the AVR's left/right audio is a real pain to use that way (because in order to isolate just one speaker, I have to select different sound modes and/or unplug speakers). This is probably one of the reason's I haven't really used REW.

So I am thinking I need X to make this all easier.
X would need to connect to the laptop (using USB) and connect to the AVR or nanoAVR HD (using HDMI).

So what piece of equipment is X? (Is it an external sound card, or an audio mixer, or what?) And can you recommend a particular one?

Thank you.

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post #19120 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post
I bet there is some piece of equipment that can help me improve my setup. But I don't know what it is. Can you help me?

My current setup:
I have REW on my laptop. But my laptop does not have any HDMI ports. It does have two USBs. I plug my UMIK into one of the laptop's USB ports. With the laptop's headphone jack, I output the REW signals to the AVR's Left Right audio input. But plugging into the AVR's left/right audio is a real pain to use that way (because in order to isolate just one speaker, I have to select different sound modes and/or unplug speakers). This is probably one of the reason's I haven't really used REW.

So I am thinking I need X to make this all easier.
X would need to connect to the laptop (using USB) and connect to the AVR or nanoAVR HD (using HDMI).

So what piece of equipment is X? (Is it an external sound card, or an audio mixer, or what?) And can you recommend a particular one?

Thank you.
I have no idea what piece of equipment would do what you are asking.

But back to the cabling issue. Assuming the AVR's left and right audio inputs are on the front panel, routing the REW test signal to the left, right and center speakers should not be that difficult. Plug into the left audio in to measure the left speaker, the right audio in to measure the right speaker, and use both inputs to measure the center channel (setting the AVR mode to PLII Cinema). If you have to use audio inputs on the rear of the AVR, it's not quite as convenient, but still do-able. I don't know why you are having to disconnect speakers, unless you are measuring surrounds. But I have never felt that measuring surrounds is very important.
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post #19121 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 06:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
Hmm, I've tried to use the same UMIK that I've used for REW to run a dirac calibration on my 88a and it's no longer recognizing the mic.

The umik actually came with my 88a and I've used it many many times without any problems. I've also just used it with REW this morning.

Have I altered something in it by using it with REW? I did load the suggested calibration file for REW.

Btw, I run REW on a windows 10 and dirac software on a Mac.

Thanks
Using the UMIK-1 with REW in no way alters the microphone, so that isn't the issue. The calibration file is not the issue either.

I recommend re-booting the PC, which you may have already done, and then trying either a different USB cable or a different USB port on the PC. When you go into Windows audio (right-click the little speaker icon in the systray and select "input devices"), is Windows recognizing the mic as an input device? If not, then Windows (either the cable or the port) is the issue, not REW.
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post #19122 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
No issues from my perspective.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
No issues on my HP Envy notebook which I upgraded from Win8.1 to Win10.
Thanks Jerry and Marc. I'll kick off the Windows 10 upgrade then.
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post #19123 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 10:58 AM
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Should ETC graphs be taken with no EQ?

Denon X6200W - Klipsch KLF-10 Fronts - Klipsch KLF-C7 Center - Klipsch KLF-C7 X 2 Surrounds - Klipsch RB-61 II Back surround -OSD ACE850 ceiling x 4 Atmos - Dual HSU VTF-3 MK4 Subs - 4 Dayton Audio BST-1 Bass Shakers with SA230 Amp - BenQ W1070 projector - 106" Antra fixed Screen
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post #19124 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Soupy1970 View Post
Should ETC graphs be taken with no EQ?
I have never seen a significant difference, until I moved to Dirac Live. I notice a difference with Dirac when compared with Audyssey. HST, regardless of the EQ you are using, it makes more sense to me to measure ETC with EQ on. After all, that's how you listen to your system, and the objective is to assess how the audio sounds under normal listening conditions.
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post #19125 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 12:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have no idea what piece of equipment would do what you are asking.

But back to the cabling issue. Assuming the AVR's left and right audio inputs are on the front panel, routing the REW test signal to the left, right and center speakers should not be that difficult. Plug into the left audio in to measure the left speaker, the right audio in to measure the right speaker, and use both inputs to measure the center channel (setting the AVR mode to PLII Cinema). If you have to use audio inputs on the rear of the AVR, it's not quite as convenient, but still do-able. I don't know why you are having to disconnect speakers, unless you are measuring surrounds. But I have never felt that measuring surrounds is very important.
It is not impossible. Just difficult. And confusing. Like what connections/settings are used to measure just the subwoofer?

I think I was looking for a USB to HDMI connector/adapter. Found one at Best Buy for $70. Ouch!

I see that my nanoAVR HD has an USB 2.0 in. I wonder if I connect the laptop to the nanoAVR HD using USB, will I be able to the same REW functionality (as if I had connected to it using HDMI)?
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post #19126 of 19132 Old Yesterday, 04:18 PM
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I bet there is some piece of equipment that can help me improve my setup. But I don't know what it is. So what piece of equipment is X?
'X' is a USB (2 or 3) to HDMI Video adapter with Audio output. You can find several on Amazon ranging in price from $30.00 to $70.00. Many claim to support multi-channel audio as well as video out up to 2560 X 1440.

I have no experience with these adapters, so you would want to check out the manufacturer's claims as to compatibility.
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post #19127 of 19132 Old Today, 06:01 AM
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I see that my nanoAVR HD has an USB 2.0 in. I wonder if I connect the laptop to the nanoAVR HD using USB, will I be able to the same REW functionality (as if I had connected to it using HDMI)?
Someone on the minidsp forum informed me that the nanoAVR's USB 2.0 in port is not for audio, but only for control of the nanoAVR.

So I am back to trying to find if there is some sort of adapter that can take the laptop's USB output and convert it to HDMI.

Or maybe it is best to just buy a cheap new laptop that has HDMI.
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post #19128 of 19132 Old Today, 06:07 AM
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Or maybe it is best to just buy a cheap new laptop that has HDMI.
I think that will be the best long-term solution. Having a "standard" solution will make it much easier to get advice down the road.
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post #19129 of 19132 Old Today, 06:03 PM
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I think that will be the best long-term solution. Having a "standard" solution will make it much easier to get advice down the road.
So I went out and bought myself a new laptop. Lenovo ideapad 100s. $160 (including tax). 2GB RAM and 32 GB storage. Sure, probably, my cellphone has more ram and storage, but this new laptop has more than my 9 year old laptop, AND it has HDMI out.

So now I can go laptop hdmi to nanoAVR HD, and nanoAVR HD hdmi to AVR. The "standard" method.

When I go to start taking REW measurements and posting them and asking advice, is it best to create a new thread (instead of posting in this thread) like 'XBR11 asking for REW advice'?

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post #19130 of 19132 Old Today, 06:54 PM
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When I go to start taking REW measurements and posting them and asking advice, is it best to create a new thread (instead of posting in this thread) like 'XBR11 asking for REW advice'?
I think it's better to keep it in this thread. That way we (meaning the experts which does not include me) don't have to follow a ton of threads.

If your questions/advice goes off into the weeds then at that point it would make sense to make a new thread.
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post #19131 of 19132 Old Today, 08:03 PM
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Thanks I'll keep it in this thread.

Just now I was following the minidsp instructions on using REW and hdmi and a NanoAVR.

(haven't yet connected to my NanoAVR).

I select ASIO (whatever that is) and all of a sudden, REW doesn't recognize that the Umik. Can't take levels.

Is it that the minidsp instructions aren't good? Or I don't want AKIO?
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post #19132 of 19132 Old Today, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post
Thanks I'll keep it in this thread.

Just now I was following the minidsp instructions on using REW and hdmi and a NanoAVR.

(haven't yet connected to my NanoAVR).

I select ASIO (whatever that is) and all of a sudden, REW doesn't recognize that the Umik. Can't take levels.

Is it that the minidsp instructions aren't good? Or I don't want AKIO?
Have you followed the setup instructions outlined in the Guide linked in my sig? Following the instructions should result in ASIO working with REW and the UMIK-1. And ASIO is required in order to get the HDMI functionality in REW.
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