Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 642 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 1351Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #19231 of 19245 Old Today, 05:12 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Low frequencies will generate standing waves in a room. The standing waves depend on the room dimensions. For example, my room has a width of 19"6". The primary resonant frequency associated with this dimension is 29Hz. A primary wave will have a peak at the left and right room boundaries, and a null exactly in the center of the room. So, if you sit in the center of the room, you will never hear 29Hz bass notes. The second resonant frequency is 58Hz. it will have nulls at the 1/4 and 3/4 points across the room width, and a peak at 58Hz. So, if you sit in the center of the room, 58Hz bass notes will sound loud and over-emphasized. The point is that your room has resonant frequencies, and depending on what they are, you will hear (and measure) peaks and nulls at the MLP.



If you were to provide a layout of your room, including length, width and height dimensions, as well as the current position of your speakers and sub(s), I can plug the dimensions into a room mode calculator to predict the response at the MLP. Once we know these details, we can make recommendations that might alleviate response issues, which you can decide to follow or not.


Take a look at the link in my signature where you can find pictures of my room. You'll see that the room my speakers and sub are in is basically the majority of my first floor which Is almost completely open concept. Would I include the kitchen / dining room in my measurements since these rooms are completely open to the living room where the sub is.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19232 of 19245 Old Today, 05:12 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,055
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5054 Post(s)
Liked: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Got it! Very helpful thanks! Soooo I kind of understand there are these miniDSPs you can buy that sit between the sub and AVR which can apply corrections at the problematic areas, like my 25-35hz Mount Everest. What exact device would I need and is it complicated ton"program" it to do the EQ corrections?
EQ can pull down peaks, but is not very effective at raising dips. Before leaping forward and purchasing a device that may or may not help, let's try and understand why you are seeing the response you are measuring. Please provide the information I requested.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19233 of 19245 Old Today, 05:17 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,055
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5054 Post(s)
Liked: 2852
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Take a look at the link in my signature where you can find pictures of my room. You'll see that the room my speakers and sub are in is basically the majority of my first floor which Is almost completely open concept. Would I include the kitchen / dining room in my measurements since these rooms are completely open to the living room where the sub is.
That is a challenging room shape. The back of my room is open as well (pics in my sig). Another approach that will at least give you an indication of whether location of the MLP is influencing the response is to move the REW mic a foot to the left, a foot to the right, then forward and finally backwards. Take the same measurement at each spot and not whether you see significant variances.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19234 of 19245 Old Today, 05:20 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
That is a challenging room shape. The back of my room is open as well (pics in my sig). Another approach that will at least give you an indication of whether location of the MLP is influencing the response is to move the REW mic a foot to the left, a foot to the right, then forward and finally backwards. Take the same measurement at each spot and not whether you see significant variances.


Ok I'll likely do this tomorrow since I can't really run anymore sweeps tonight. Baby sleeping and all. But I can see if there are any changes a foot in any direction from MLP.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19235 of 19245 Old Today, 05:31 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
When you say speaker only, did you set the speakers to large/sub disabled to disable bass management?

Also, when doing so don't measure too loud (85-90dB average should be enough) and start the sweep not much lower than the rated low extension of your speakers to minimize the risk of bottoming out any woofers. I would say 40-50Hz for bookshelves/cc and a bit lower for small to medium towers, like 30-40Hz. Satellites probably 70-80Hz or higher.

If you measured the speakers with bass management off than if you see any similar peaks or dips to the subwoofer it is room acoustics.

Forgot to reply to this. Nope guess I did the speaker only wrong. I just went into the generate tone screen and set to speaker only and then did channels 1, 2, and 3.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Also, because the LFE channel measures 10dB higher, turning the REW signal from -12dBFS to -22dBFS for LFE will keep you from running sweeps too close to this sub's output limits especially downlow.

You currently seem to be measuring the sub around 100dB and it maxes out at 20Hz just slightly higher. So, 90dB would be easier on the sub.

I completely forgot the volume I set the receiver to mattered. Brain fart on my part. It's also why the second set of graphs went up into the 100s and why the "weird sounds" I was hearing from the subs were happening. I was watching some demo scenes between those runs and had the volume about 7db higher than the first tests. I also realize now that the higher volume at 15hz out of a sub rated to 19hz is a bad idea! I understand enough now not to do that. Hopefully I didn't do any damage to the sub.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19236 of 19245 Old Today, 05:59 PM
Advanced Member
 
XBR11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 148
Having a problem. Or two. Can't play any sound to play through my AVR.

Recording Devices. UMIK. Properties. Listen tab. Playback through this device.
Should it be the "Default Playback Device" or the HDMI device (my default device is listed as "Sony AVAMP")? (This page 25 of the instructions)

Page 30 of the instructions. I cannot find "Open the Windows Sound Recorder app (Start/All Programs/Accessories/Sound Recorder)".
But I can find "Voice Recorder". Is it the same thing? I have Windows 10. Perhaps these instructions were from a previous version of Windows.
When I record something I am getting "We couldn't save this recording. It looks like the autosaved file was deleted before you finished recording it." So anything I try to record (to test the playback) doesn't work. What do I do?

_______________________________________________
[Hey, what does that Acronym mean?! Click here to learn.]

Last edited by XBR11; Today at 06:04 PM.
XBR11 is online now  
post #19237 of 19245 Old Today, 06:02 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post
Having a problem. Or two. Can't play any sound to play through my AVR.



Recording Devices. UMIK. Properties. Listen tab. Playback through this device.

Should it be the "Default Playback Device" or the HDMI device (my default device is listed as "Sony AVAMP")? (This page 25 of the instructions)



Page 30 of the instructions. I cannot find "Open the Windows Sound Recorder app (Start/All Programs/Accessories/Sound Recorder)".

But I can find "Voice Recorder". Is it the same thing? I have Windows 10. Perhaps these instructions were from a previous version of Windows.

When I record something I am getting "We couldn't save this recording. It looks like the autosaved file was deleted before you finished recording it."


Just went through these troubles today. Set the default playback device to the hdmi or receiver that shows up when you connect the PC to the AVR and the AVR is on the input that the HDMI is plugged into. Voice recorder is sound recorder on windows 10. I don't know about the saving issue, but the more important thing is that you can playback the quick test clip of your voice you record to make sure the mic is hooked up and working. Make sure you close out of voice recorder before opening REW too since REW needs sole propriety over the mic

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19238 of 19245 Old Today, 06:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
XBR11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 148
I can't record my voice, and play it back, because it won't save.

_______________________________________________
[Hey, what does that Acronym mean?! Click here to learn.]
XBR11 is online now  
post #19239 of 19245 Old Today, 06:08 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post
I can't record my voice, and play it back, because it won't save.


Ah I see. Try the things here: http://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/w...f137386?auth=1

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19240 of 19245 Old Today, 06:08 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,553
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Yes, the frequency response graph is showing that the sub is playing much louder at 25-35Hz at the MLP.

The comment about masking sound under 25-35Hz peak refers to the subwoofer output, which comes from the LFE channel and bass management. In a nutshell, having 25-35Hz play *much* louder than 15-25Hz or so will make the stuff under 25Hz barely audible (if at all) audible. That assumes the sound is not just purely under 25Hz, but also includes 25-35Hz or even higher.

Dominating the response means that what you hear from the sub will be mostly the 25-35Hz peak, since it is much louder than everything else sub-wise. It isn't necessarily referring to the speaker/sub balance but rather overall frequency response for all channels, particularly the LFE channel.

Regarding headroom, I might be wrong but my logic would be that the peak at 25Hz-35Hz isn't eating up headroom because the room acoustics are boosting that frequency range, not sub EQ. So, if you were to take ground plane measurements of the sub up close you would likely see that sub on it's own is playing quite flat but the room is what adds peaks, dips, ripples, etc. So, as I understand it, that peak doesn't eat headroom but it does mean at high SPL you will be hearing 25-35Hz very loud. Removing that peak with EQ would basically compensate for the room acoustics making 25-35Hz about as loud as everything else the sub plays.


Got it! Very helpful thanks! Soooo I kind of understand there are these miniDSPs you can buy that sit between the sub and AVR which can apply corrections at the problematic areas, like my 25-35hz Mount Everest. What exact device would I need and is it complicated ton"program" it to do the EQ corrections?
The new MiniDSP 2x4 HD would be good choice because it has the unbalanced rca connections you need for LV12R and it has twice the max input and output voltage capability of the MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced (which I have).

Having more capability means the MiniDSP input is less likely to clip/distort at high SPL and also means you won't have to crank sw gain too much.

It works with REW EQ tool and the MiniDSP plug-in. Quite easy to use with a little practice.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19241 of 19245 Old Today, 06:27 PM
Advanced Member
 
XBR11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 148
I followed its advice. It said something like my internal speakers were disabled and it re-enabled them. This is true, since I only wanted to output via HDMI, I had disabled my internal speakers.

With this "fix" I will try again tomorrow (when I have more time).


thanks for the quick help.

_______________________________________________
[Hey, what does that Acronym mean?! Click here to learn.]
XBR11 is online now  
post #19242 of 19245 Old Today, 06:52 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
The new MiniDSP 2x4 HD would be good choice because it has the unbalanced rca connections you need for LV12R and it has twice the max input and output voltage capability of the MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced (which I have).

Having more capability means the MiniDSP input is less likely to clip/distort at high SPL and also means you won't have to crank sw gain too much.

It works with REW EQ tool and the MiniDSP plug-in. Quite easy to use with a little practice.


Been reading up on it. Doesn't seem too complicated. Wondering if it's compatible with my receiver. Also wondering if $225 more (plus the $100 for the UMIK-1) will really give me enough benefit from my $600 sub or not.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19243 of 19245 Old Today, 06:57 PM
Senior Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 497
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 280 Post(s)
Liked: 69
The reason I'm wondering if it works with my receive is that it looks like the miniDSP 2x4 HD has 2 inputs. Is that for LFE input or Line In? My sub seems to only have an LFE output.






==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is online now  
post #19244 of 19245 Old Today, 07:06 PM
Advanced Member
 
XBR11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 789
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 238 Post(s)
Liked: 148
citsur86 - I have the MiniDSP nanoAVR HD. Haven't used it yet. Take a look at it.

_______________________________________________
[Hey, what does that Acronym mean?! Click here to learn.]
XBR11 is online now  
post #19245 of 19245 Old Today, 07:26 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,553
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1551 Post(s)
Liked: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Been reading up on it. Doesn't seem too complicated. Wondering if it's compatible with my receiver. Also wondering if $225 more (plus the $100 for the UMIK-1) will really give me enough benefit from my $600 sub or not.
All you need is a second rca cable: first cable from AVR sub/LFE pre-out to MiniDSP input 1 and second cable from MiniDSP output 1 to LV12R LFE in (or Line In if you prefer).

The MiniDSP 2x4 unbalanced is cheaper, but you might have issues with clipping past -10MV or so. You can read Jerry's MiniDSP/multi sub guide for more info on gain structure and the like to understand the difference in input and output voltages and how it relates to sw trim and MV.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...0Rev%201.4.pdf

UN46EH6030 Calibration/Settings
Samsung UN46EH6030; Yamaha HTR-3066, SVS Prime Bookshelf Mains and Prime Center, Rythmik LV12R; PS4, Xbox One, Motorola RNG150N

Last edited by PlasmaPZ80U; Today at 07:29 PM.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off