Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 644 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Baselworld is only a few weeks away. Getting the latest news is easy, Click Here for info on how to join the Watchuseek.com newsletter list. Follow our team for updates featuring event coverage, new product unveilings, watch industry news & more!



Forum Jump: 
 1362Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #19291 of 19312 Old Today, 03:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
Lesmor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 597
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 307 Post(s)
Liked: 111
Quote:
Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
Thanks Matt

On your first slide you have an option 'choose ref output' in the drop down. I don't have that option appear. HD audio ouput 1 appears as the first option rather than 'choose ref output'

Perhaps I have inadvertently turned something on somewhere that prevents the 'choose ref output' option from appearing?

I think I'm using the latest version of REW but won't be able to check until I get home.
Hi Indus
You can ignore any reference to HD audio 1 & 2 as AFAIK that refers to your laptop speakers.
The settings are different if you don't physically have the UMIC-1 and HDMI cables connected which is probably why you don't see any ref output option.
Lesmor is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #19292 of 19312 Old Today, 06:14 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,072
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5062 Post(s)
Liked: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by indus1 View Post
Thanks Matt

On your first slide you have an option 'choose ref output' in the drop down. I don't have that option appear. HD audio ouput 1 appears as the first option rather than 'choose ref output'

Perhaps I have inadvertently turned something on somewhere that prevents the 'choose ref output' option from appearing?

I think I'm using the latest version of REW but won't be able to check until I get home.
OK, I just got my REW kit set up to see if I can add anything to this discussion.

- On the Preferences screen, the drop-down for Timing Reference Output does not contain a choice "None", or "Please select a device". I believe the latter only appears on a fresh install. This is true even if "No Timing Reference" is selected on the Analysis tab. I recommend selecting a valid channel from the drop-down to avoid confusion, but I don't think it makes any difference.

- On the Measurement screen, immediately below the primary Output selection is a second box with a check box next to it. Typically, this box would be empty to start with. If you select "Use Acoustic Timing Reference" on the Analysis tab, then this second box would be used to select the desired speaker for the timing reference signal (after checking the box). Otherwise, the second box would be used to send the REW measurement signal to two speakers at the same time, e.g. left+right.

- Clearly, the UMIK-1 must be selected as the input device on the Preferences Soundcard tab, otherwise the measurements will not be valid. This may well be Indus1's issue.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19293 of 19312 Old Today, 06:21 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just ran LFE only - looks like I have a considerable dip at MLP right before Xover pt (at 80hz). I tried the distance tweek and even at a foot further, there is no difference at all in the graph.





File can be downloaded here.
Sub distance tweak is for CC+subs, not LFE

Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
After some minor fixes to securing the amp onto my LV12R I decided to rerun some of my sweeps tonight moving the mic slightly as I went. Results are below. File can be downloaded here.



MLP vs Best alternative (happens to be SLP) Unsmoothed



Going to run same tests LFE only now at -22db. Anyone think I can do anything to improve this, other than Moving the sub for now and other than miniDSP for now?
Yeah, if you use the SLP, you don't really need a MiniDSP for now.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19294 of 19312 Old Today, 06:46 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Sub distance tweak is for CC+subs, not LFE



Yeah, if you use the SLP, you don't really need a MiniDSP for now.
So your opinion is that levels are pretty good at SLP? I sat in SLP last night and turned on a few demo scenes and all I could hear was voices from the front left (since SLP is closer to FL). When I moved over to MLP, center channel had dialogue as normal. Guess I need to rerun MCACC with mic at SLP. But then my levels might change

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19295 of 19312 Old Today, 07:04 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Yeah, you would need to rerun MCACC anytime you change the mlp, speaker positions or sub position/gain.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19296 of 19312 Old Today, 07:13 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Yeah, you would need to rerun MCACC anytime you change the mlp, speaker positions or sub position/gain.
If I do that, which I will, couldn't REW start telling me bass response is better at old MLP lol? Also, not that she cares, but i never realized my wife sitting on the other side of the couch was hearing dialogue from the front left speaker - that's kind of crappy. A move of 2ft or so changes where you hear sounds from so drastically? So there is only 1 spot in my living room where sound is not completely (noticeably) messed up?

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19297 of 19312 Old Today, 07:47 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,072
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5062 Post(s)
Liked: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
If I do that, which I will, couldn't REW start telling me bass response is better at old MLP lol? Also, not that she cares, but i never realized my wife sitting on the other side of the couch was hearing dialogue from the front left speaker - that's kind of crappy. A move of 2ft or so changes where you hear sounds from so drastically? So there is only 1 spot in my living room where sound is not completely (noticeably) messed up?
You are not solving the fundamental issues, just putting a bandaid on it. There are proven paths to improvement. Whether you can take advantage of them or not, only you can say. In order of effectiveness, they are:

- Adding one or more subs
- Finding the best placement for the subs you have
- Effective use of EQ
- Treatments (for certain problems, like resonance)
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19298 of 19312 Old Today, 07:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,072
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5062 Post(s)
Liked: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by donktard View Post
I had an issue with extremely noisy impulse response when I was using one USB interface with mic to measure with REW and another USB soundcard to output sweep to a speaker.
Using same USB interface for input and output doesn't have that issue.
I don't know what kind of setup you have, but I don't think your tip is applicable to most of us in this thread. USB is used for the mic input, but the output is HDMI.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19299 of 19312 Old Today, 07:51 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
You are not solving the fundamental issues, just putting a bandaid on it. There are proven paths to improvement. Whether you can take advantage of them or not, only you can say. In order of effectiveness, they are:

- Adding one or more subs
- Finding the best placement for the subs you have
- Effective use of EQ
- Treatments (for certain problems, like resonance)
Got it and thanks for all your help. I'm completely on board with your info and trust you and other folks here who have given me the same recommendations. I guess for the moment, I am just at a place of "as good as it's gonna get" without being able to do any of the above listed items. But you know what? It sounds damn good and I'm happy with it as is for the time being. I'm thinking buying the UMIK-1 was good and bad. Good because it let me see my response and where the problem areas are. But I guess I should have thought over the purchase before I made it, seeing as how there really is almost nothing I can do about it for right now. Ignorance is bliss

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19300 of 19312 Old Today, 08:14 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,868
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3747 Post(s)
Liked: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just ran LFE only - looks like I have a considerable dip at MLP right before Xover pt (at 80hz). I tried the distance tweek and even at a foot further, there is no difference at all in the graph.
You need to go much further than 1 foot. It usually takes multiple feet before you see a difference. Also, make sure you back out of the menu for the new setting to take effect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
If I do that, which I will, couldn't REW start telling me bass response is better at old MLP lol? Also, not that she cares, but i never realized my wife sitting on the other side of the couch was hearing dialogue from the front left speaker - that's kind of crappy. A move of 2ft or so changes where you hear sounds from so drastically? So there is only 1 spot in my living room where sound is not completely (noticeably) messed up?
First of all, you shouldn't have dialogue coming from the mains (you have a center, right?) most of the time. Sometimes dialogue is mixed to the other channels, but the majority of the time it should be coming from the CC only. Unless you are using a surround mode that is matrixing the dialogue into the mains (i.e. PLII Music).

Try sitting in the SLP and listening carefully for a while. Listen particularly to the bass, at varying volume levels. If you can't tell any difference, then don't worry about it and keep your MLP where it is.
Alan P is online now  
post #19301 of 19312 Old Today, 08:22 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You need to go much further than 1 foot. It usually takes multiple feet before you see a difference. Also, make sure you back out of the menu for the new setting to take effect.

First of all, you shouldn't have dialogue coming from the mains (you have a center, right?) most of the time. Sometimes dialogue is mixed to the other channels, but the majority of the time it should be coming from the CC only. Unless you are using a surround mode that is matrixing the dialogue into the mains (i.e. PLII Music).

Try sitting in the SLP and listening carefully for a while. Listen particularly to the bass, at varying volume levels. If you can't tell any difference, then don't worry about it and keep your MLP where it is.
Well strangely - that mountain at the beginning is considerably different just 2-3 feet to the left of the MLP which is the other couch seat (SLP). I think it peaks about -5db from MLP at SLP. I always use 5.1 from source (Xbox One Uncompressed) being matrixed to PLIIz Heights for TV. The dialogue I heard was only audible from FL sitting at SLP (I moved to MLP) but it was during a commercial on ABC or something. Wondering if the commercial just had crap audio. Now that I'm thinking into this so much, I am going to do some more testing when I get home like you said before switching MLP or redoing MCACC. Maybe I'll try a heavy LFE scene like the train scene on the Demo I have at MLP then at SLP at same volume and see if there is an audible difference. If not MLP will stay. It's fun to tinker, but now I see where people say you can get a little OCD with this stuff!

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19302 of 19312 Old Today, 08:55 AM
Member
 
ChrisGTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 65
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Seriously. Don't test the performance of your equipment while an advert on TV is playing - feed your system with audio that will do your money justice.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
ChrisGTL is offline  
post #19303 of 19312 Old Today, 09:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisGTL View Post
Seriously. Don't test the performance of your equipment while an advert on TV is playing - feed your system with audio that will do your money justice.

Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
Yeah i wasn't really testing, just sat down after all the REW sweeps at like 12:30am and turned TV on for a minute before turning it off and going to bed. I'll do more serious testing tonight with the demo discs I have.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19304 of 19312 Old Today, 09:49 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Alan P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,868
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3747 Post(s)
Liked: 2485
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Well strangely - that mountain at the beginning is considerably different just 2-3 feet to the left of the MLP which is the other couch seat (SLP). I think it peaks about -5db from MLP at SLP. I always use 5.1 from source (Xbox One Uncompressed) being matrixed to PLIIz Heights for TV. The dialogue I heard was only audible from FL sitting at SLP (I moved to MLP) but it was during a commercial on ABC or something. Wondering if the commercial just had crap audio. Now that I'm thinking into this so much, I am going to do some more testing when I get home like you said before switching MLP or redoing MCACC. Maybe I'll try a heavy LFE scene like the train scene on the Demo I have at MLP then at SLP at same volume and see if there is an audible difference. If not MLP will stay. It's fun to tinker, but now I see where people say you can get a little OCD with this stuff!
Yeah, PLIIz should keep the dialogue where it belongs (in the CC), but like Chris said, commercials are not the best source material.

My wife likes to lay on the couch when we watch movies. The couch is up against the right hand wall, about 3' from the MLP. While the bass is great there, the imaging kind of sucks. Yeah, the dialogue is still anchored to the screen by the CC, but the effects/music are most certainly weighted heavily to the right when sitting/laying there. She really doesn't care though, so fine by me if that's her preferred seat.
Alan P is online now  
post #19305 of 19312 Old Today, 09:50 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Commercials are often 2.0 channel (stereo). Regardless of the settings on your cable box or Xbox. Also, I wouldn't judge your setup with matrix modes active or with cable TV or the like.

You may also want to make sure that the audio settings on your cable box disable any dynamic range compression and matrix modes for stereo content. And be sure its giving you DD 5.1 for the HD channels.

The Xbox One can be set for uncompressed 7.1 or 5.1 (I find 7.1 useful even for 5.1 setups, since the 5.1 option downmixes 7.1 signals in BD movies incorrectly to the mains instead of the side surrounds) and be sure that the setting for TV surround sound is set to surround, not stereo... it is hidden in a TV menu separate from the audio settings and defaults to stereo.

Best to use the direct or straight decode option on the AVR that disables all extra processing. At least for evaluating things.

It's better to use reference scenes from a few good movies you know very well (BDs).
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19306 of 19312 Old Today, 09:54 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Just ran LFE only - looks like I have a considerable dip at MLP right before Xover pt (at 80hz). I tried the distance tweek and even at a foot further, there is no difference at all in the graph.
You need to go much further than 1 foot. It usually takes multiple feet before you see a difference. Also, make sure you back out of the menu for the new setting to take effect.



Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
If I do that, which I will, couldn't REW start telling me bass response is better at old MLP lol? Also, not that she cares, but i never realized my wife sitting on the other side of the couch was hearing dialogue from the front left speaker - that's kind of crappy. A move of 2ft or so changes where you hear sounds from so drastically? So there is only 1 spot in my living room where sound is not completely (noticeably) messed up?
First of all, you shouldn't have dialogue coming from the mains (you have a center, right?) most of the time. Sometimes dialogue is mixed to the other channels, but the majority of the time it should be coming from the CC only. Unless you are using a surround mode that is matrixing the dialogue into the mains (i.e. PLII Music).

Try sitting in the SLP and listening carefully for a while. Listen particularly to the bass, at varying volume levels. If you can't tell any difference, then don't worry about it and keep your MLP where it is.
Good advice, subjectively evaluating this first before going through too much trouble is wise.

As a side note, I think Pioneer AVRs can save up to 6 separate MCACC runs/calibrations and then let you toggle between them...
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19307 of 19312 Old Today, 09:58 AM
Advanced Member
 
citsur86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: NJ
Posts: 535
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 312 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Good advice, subjectively evaluating this first before going through too much trouble is wise.

As a side note, I think Pioneer AVRs can save up to 6 separate MCACC runs/calibrations and then let you toggle between them...
Some Pioneer AVR's do. Not the VSX-44 - been down that road in that thread. It REALLYYY pushes the word "Elite" to it's limits.

==============================
FS: Proficient GL6 Center Channel Speaker
==============================

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
==============================
citsur86 is offline  
post #19308 of 19312 Old Today, 11:33 AM
AVS Special Member
 
LastButNotLeast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: 08077
Posts: 6,876
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1117 Post(s)
Liked: 767
And most versions of MCACC do not calibrate subs (IIRC, lowest band of eq is around 60Hz).
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
Downloadable FREE demo discs: Demonstration Blu-Ray Discs (Independently Authored)
Welcome to AVS - Get out while you still can!
LastButNotLeast is offline  
post #19309 of 19312 Old Today, 01:58 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,072
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5062 Post(s)
Liked: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
And most versions of MCACC do not calibrate subs (IIRC, lowest band of eq is around 60Hz).
Michael
Pioneer makes a fine AVR. Pair it with a MiniDSP 88A and you end up with fine electronics and state-of the-art Dirac Live room correction. MCACC just isn't up to today's standards, IMO.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19310 of 19312 Old Today, 02:20 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
And most versions of MCACC do not calibrate subs (IIRC, lowest band of eq is around 60Hz).
Michael
Pioneer makes a fine AVR. Pair it with a MiniDSP 88A and you end up with fine electronics and state-of the-art Dirac Live room correction. MCACC just isn't up to today's standards, IMO.
Wouldn't you get the same result with the $1K Denon AVR-3300W with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT? And save a lot of money and have a simple all in one solution as opposed to AVR+88A+External AMP?
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
post #19311 of 19312 Old Today, 02:49 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
AustinJerry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Austin, Texas
Posts: 13,072
Mentioned: 110 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5062 Post(s)
Liked: 2858
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Wouldn't you get the same result with the $1K Denon AVR-3300W with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT? And save a lot of money and have a simple all in one solution as opposed to AVR+88A+External AMP?
I am (was) a long-time Audyssey XT32 user. I had the Pro kit, participated enthusiastically in the Audyssey thread, and owned a series of fine Denon AVR's all the way to the 4520. I still have a 4311 in my bedroom. However, I, and a number of other former Audyessey users who now are using Dirac Live, think Dirac is the better-sounding room correction technology. So, do I think you can get the same result? No. But you are entitled to your opinion. Until you have owned and compared both, you will never know.
AustinJerry is online now  
post #19312 of 19312 Old Today, 03:38 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
PlasmaPZ80U's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 10,569
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1563 Post(s)
Liked: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Wouldn't you get the same result with the $1K Denon AVR-3300W with Audyssey XT32 and Sub EQ HT? And save a lot of money and have a simple all in one solution as opposed to AVR+88A+External AMP?
I am (was) a long-time Audyssey XT32 user. I had the Pro kit, participated enthusiastically in the Audyssey thread, and owned a series of fine Denon AVR's all the way to the 4520. I still have a 4311 in my bedroom. However, I, and a number of other former Audyessey users who now are using Dirac Live, think Dirac is the better-sounding room correction technology. So, do I think you can get the same result? No. But you are entitled to your opinion. Until you have owned and compared both, you will never know.
I should have have said both are among the best options I seen mentioned here. And as far as built in room correction in AVRs goes, XT32 seems to get all the attention here (and rightfully so from what I've read).

Anyhow, my point was for someone starting with an AVR that has room correction but it isn't doing well enough of a job, a $1K modern AVR the or cheaper older version with XT32 and Sub EQ HT can give very good results (albeit not quite as good) as Dirac Live, but with a single component (AVR) and for much less money.

And because such an AVR does have 7.2ch pre-outs, adding external amplification and possibly Dirac Live is always a future possibility.

Maybe at some point MiniDSP will make an AVR with Dirac Live or have a licensing arrangement with an AVR manufacturer.
PlasmaPZ80U is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Audio Theory, Setup, and Chat

Tags
Dayton , Dayton Audio , Room Equilizer Wizard Rew

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off