Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 671 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20101 of 21555 Old 08-19-2016, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
On some (a lot? most??) AVRs, the change in distance setting will not take effect until you back up one menu level. On my AVR (Denon 4520), I have to back up one step from the SPEAKERS>MANUAL SETUP>SPEAKER DISTANCES menu to the SPEAKERS>MANUAL SETUP menu.

If you can see still the list of speaker distances, your change has (most likely) not taken effect.
Thanks Alan, I got you now my friend, just go back one step in the same speaker setup menu and not hit return to main menu, correct? Thanks again.
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post #20102 of 21555 Old 08-19-2016, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Thanks Alan, I got you now my friend, just go back one step in the same speaker setup menu and not hit return to main menu, correct? Thanks again.
Let's be very specific.

1. Enter the new distance setting.
2. Press Enter.
3. Press the Back key to go back one level in the menu.

If you don't do step 3, the new distance setting is not invoked, and the REW measurement will show no change, causing confusion
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post #20103 of 21555 Old 08-19-2016, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Let's be very specific.

1. Enter the new distance setting.
2. Press Enter.
3. Press the Back key to go back one level in the menu.

If you don't do step 3, the new distance setting is not invoked, and the REW measurement will show no change, causing confusion
Jerry after step 3 you're no longer seeing the distance setting you just entered or for that matter any of the speaker or sub distance settings? Am I close to understanding your procedure? The back key for me is the return key and it gets me one step before the distance setting in the speaker distance setting menu.

Last edited by ahblaza; 08-19-2016 at 09:41 PM.
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post #20104 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 02:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
That's what I figured and just wanted to check. It would be nice to make one 7 channel wav, but instead I'll just stick to the monos. Thanks.
you can do it easily in audacity using "Export Audio"/"Advanced Mixing Options"
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post #20105 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 03:04 AM
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Originally Posted by JDontee View Post
I'm already accomplishing what I want. I just wanted to learn the difference between the stereo and mono filters that rew can export. Evidently I'm wasting my time using wav and should use text.
you'd use wav to use https://sourceforge.net/p/equalizera...nce-version-10 which means using something like https://sourceforge.net/projects/rephase/ to generate the filters
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post #20106 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 06:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Jerry after step 3 you're no longer seeing the distance setting you just entered or for that matter any of the speaker or sub distance settings? Am I close to understanding your procedure? The back key for me is the return key and it gets me one step before the distance setting in the speaker distance setting menu.
I have a D&M AVR, and yes, that is the way it works. If you have a different brand AVR, you will need to experiment to understand its behavior.

Testing it out is easy. Take a measurement of sub+center. Then alter the sub distance by a significant amount, and re-take the same measurement. There should be a significant difference in the two measurements if the sub distance change has been invoked.
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post #20107 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by EndersShadow View Post
Its the fact that when I select ASIO from the drop down, the UMIK-1 mic is not there, so I am not able to follow your step by step instructions beyond that (which are quite nice and I thank you for your work to put them together).

Thats not your problem so much as apparently my equipment not working the way its supposed to.

If I can get just a few sweeps done so I get the process down I'd feel a lot better.

So far though your guide DID fix my issue with the UMIK-1 mic (from cross spectrum) not liking the lack of a sensitivity factor. I got that resolved by following your instructions.
Is the UMIK not showing in the Preferences dialog, or not showing up in the ASIO interface? Something I overlooked originally was that in the ASIO interface, you need to pay attention to the icon to the left of the device names. The device names which have a bright blue icon to their left is what show up in Preferences. Within ASIO, try clicking on the icon to the left of the UMIK to see if the icon 'lights up' in ASIO. Then close ASIO and see if the device shows up in Preferences. If not try closing and re-opening Preferences, or closing and re-opening REW.

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post #20108 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
Polk may have replacement drivers for that model, but you can expect to pay a premium for them. There are several sources for Polk replacement drivers, you just need to pull them and look for the model number either stamped on them or on a label affixed to the driver.
Polk Support already stated they have plenty of spares in stock @$75. I bought this center channel speaker used, and the midrange drivers were manufactured in 2000 but other than that physically they look new.

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post #20109 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmueller View Post
Is the UMIK not showing in the Preferences dialog, or not showing up in the ASIO interface? Something I overlooked originally was that in the ASIO interface, you need to pay attention to the icon to the left of the device names. The device names which have a bright blue icon to their left is what show up in Preferences. Within ASIO, try clicking on the icon to the left of the UMIK to see if the icon 'lights up' in ASIO. Then close ASIO and see if the device shows up in Preferences. If not try closing and re-opening Preferences, or closing and re-opening REW.
Will try this Monday when I have a minute (literally) to spare lol....

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post #20110 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 01:56 PM
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Randomly had a thought today that turned into this question for the REW experts here. We turn the MV up when listening to pink noise for channel 4 (LFE only) to about 90dbs with the REW volume set to -22. As I understand it, this is because there is 10db added from the LFE channel in the AVR. If I flatten this response using PEQ, I've effectively only flattened the LFE response. Now, If I set it to channel 3 (Center+Sub) and set the REW volume to -12 after doing the above (getting the MV set so I get 90db pink noise response), the sweeps come back showing the LFE response is still relatively flat, but at a higher DB level than everything else. After 200db or so, the volume drops off and remains flat about 10db quieter through to 15,000hz or so. So, why would it not make sense to either initially set MV to 90db with channel 4 at -12db, OR try to do PEQ filters directly based on channel 3 from 15-200hz? I feel like the results im getting make sense based on what I said above, but are not what I've been looking for - which is an relatively flat response in channel 3 from 15 - 15,000hz.

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post #20111 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 02:08 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Randomly had a thought today...
If the DUT has reasonably similar response at all signal levels, the EQ settings will be applied correctly. The only issue that might occur is if the frequency response changes drastically with output level then you might find issues with the EQ settings. However, if the DUT does change response—other than distortion figures—with different signal levels, you should look for problems with the device not the EQ.
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post #20112 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sam_adams View Post
If the DUT has reasonably similar response at all signal levels, the EQ settings will be applied correctly. The only issue that might occur is if the frequency response changes drastically with output level then you might find issues with the EQ settings. However, if the DUT does change response—other than distortion figures—with different signal levels, you should look for problems with the device not the EQ.


Sorry what does DUT stand for?

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post #20113 of 21555 Old 08-20-2016, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I have a D&M AVR, and yes, that is the way it works. If you have a different brand AVR, you will need to experiment to understand its behavior.

Testing it out is easy. Take a measurement of sub+center. Then alter the sub distance by a significant amount, and re-take the same measurement. There should be a significant difference in the two measurements if the sub distance change has been invoked.
I have an Onkyo and I believe they're similar in that regard. Thanks Jerry for the reply, you always have a way to verify if what you've done is correct.
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post #20114 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Sorry what does DUT stand for?
device under test, i.e. your sub
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post #20115 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 10:39 AM
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Hi everyone, I am using REW with a UMIK-1 on Windows 10 laptop along with the ANSIO4ALL drivers. HDMI connected to Yamaha receiver.

I would like to measure all of the channels including the 4 atmos speakers pre-calibrated and after calibration.

I can get the hdmi connection to show 8 channels to measure but these are all the bed layer channels.



Channel 1: Front Left
Channel 2: Front Right
Channel 3: Center
Channel 4: Subwoofer
Channel 5: Surround Left
Channel 6: Surround Right
Channel 7: Surround Back Left
Channel 8: Surround Back Right

Last edited by Shadowed; 08-21-2016 at 10:43 AM.
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post #20116 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Shadowed View Post
I would like to measure all of the channels including the 4 atmos speakers pre-calibrated and after calibration.
you can't access those channels via REW (unless you rewire them to one of the available 8 channels)
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post #20117 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by 3ll3d00d View Post
you can't access those channels via REW (unless you rewire them to one of the available 8 channels)
I suspected that may be the case.

Thank you...
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post #20118 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 11:02 AM
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Why the ? You mention using a receiver so why not just temporarily rewire as 3ll3d00d suggested? Swap the speaker wires from your left and right front heights to the main left and right. Set fronts as large and bypass any eq and run REW. Repeat for rear heights. Easy
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post #20119 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 11:28 AM
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Did some more EQ with REW. I thought I would share some findings.

Although I'm sending the LV12R back tomorrow assuming the replacement FV15HP comes, I decided to do some last minute testing with it for fun. What I found is that in my room at least, a flat response between 15hz and 200hz gives me very good music performance. Tight, articulate, and punchy in music listening. However that same response seems to limit or suppress the deep lows 20hz-30hz in HT listening. This makes sense since the majority of EQ work in my case was PEQ using the 2x4 HD to lower peaks in that same range. I PEQ'd it again to have a sort of house curve and the HT listening was vastly improved. Deeper, louder rumbles. Harder hitting down low. In this EQ, music had a bit of a muddier sound with overwhelming bass at times. Since I use my system for 90% HT and 10% music, I'll likely EQ the FV15HP tomorrow with a house curve, but I'll flatten it out as well and compare the same. My guess is my results will be similar. Just more of everything in both cases and deeper extension.

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Last edited by citsur86; 08-21-2016 at 11:33 AM.
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post #20120 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 12:38 PM
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There is no one-size-fits-all house curve. I'm willing to bet that yours continues to slope up until the low end of your sub region. I found that I was happier with a flatter house curve.
You may also want to try starting the curve at a lower frequency (so it affects music less).
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Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #20121 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
There is no one-size-fits-all house curve. I'm willing to bet that yours continues to slope up until the low end of your sub region. I found that I was happier with a flatter house curve.
You may also want to try starting the curve at a lower frequency (so it affects music less).
Michael
The original sweep without PEQ looked like this. Filters shown.



This is what the curve looks like currently. (Where music sounds good but HT sounds limited).



And with center added:

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My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15

Last edited by citsur86; 08-21-2016 at 12:51 PM.
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post #20122 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 12:53 PM
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Right. And I'll bet that the curve where you're happy with HT is a lot higher at the low end.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #20123 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 12:56 PM
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Yep.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
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Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
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post #20124 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 01:00 PM
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You want your boost for movies to come in below the bottom end of instruments:
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #20125 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 02:04 PM
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Dirac Live full software ($750) versus Emotiva XMC-1 Dirac Live "Full" upgrade ($99): Dirac Live Software wins!

System details: https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B1...VZBNUJBR29LTEU

Note there is a 200Hz room issue that I've never been able to fix (causes the one phase shift on right channel and a dip on the left).

The PC version does a better job at fixing low frequency phase shift issues. This is because I set everything up manually using Preset 1 on the XMC-1. I custom set subwoofer delay and levels using REW. Then I used the Dirac PC software to calibrate front left.

For example, this means Dirac on my PC is calibrating subs crossed to 80Hz when it calibrates the front right channel, versus XMC-1 Dirac's software that would only calibrate the front left channel going to the front left speaker only. The result is a better water fall plot and more phase coherence for the low end.

Crazy how one algorithm is targeting the low end more (PC Dirac Live trial software), while the XMC-1 Dirac Live "Full" software targets the high end more. I'm getting lower extension and faster decay times as shown on the waterfall plots. One would definitely want the low end targeted more, and the high-end left alone as much as possible, so I think the PC version of Dirac is actually better.

Potentially, I could try to tackle the 200Hz issue in REW by exporting filters to the XMC-1's Preset 1, then rerun Dirac on my PC. I could also setup the optimum gain structure for levels (e.g. speaker trim) prior to running Dirac on the PC. I don't think I've seen a better waterfall plot anywhere though, so I'm tempting to enjoy the bass and leave things alone.


I'll have to enjoy my trial and even better bass since I'm unsure of paying the $750 for the software! Plus I'd have to let my PC software decode HD audio formats instead of using bitstreamed output to the XMC-1. Not sure if this is a drawback yet; will have to check my players' settings.



OLD Results (blue) using Dirac speaker mode on the XMC-1 Versus using Preset 1 on the XMC-1 with Dirac software (purple) are attached.
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post #20126 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You want your boost for movies to come in below the bottom end of instruments:
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm
what do you mean by that? boost under 30Hz only?
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post #20127 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 02:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
There is no one-size-fits-all house curve. I'm willing to bet that yours continues to slope up until the low end of your sub region. I found that I was happier with a flatter house curve.
You may also want to try starting the curve at a lower frequency (so it affects music less).
Michael
The original sweep without PEQ looked like this. Filters shown.



This is what the curve looks like currently. (Where music sounds good but HT sounds limited).



And with center added:

What sounds good with music to my ears also works well for HT... but YMMV.

Regarding those filters and the match range, for a 15Hz to 300Hz sub measure, use a 15Hz to 300Hz match range. And even if you prefer to set it up to 200Hz or something lower, don't set it too low (like 100Hz in this example), because it is then ignoring the 2 peaks right above 100Hz.
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post #20128 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
You want your boost for movies to come in below the bottom end of instruments:
http://www.independentrecording.net/...in_display.htm
What frequency is that?
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post #20129 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 03:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
There is no one-size-fits-all house curve. I'm willing to bet that yours continues to slope up until the low end of your sub region. I found that I was happier with a flatter house curve.
You may also want to try starting the curve at a lower frequency (so it affects music less).
Michael
The original sweep without PEQ looked like this. Filters shown.



This is what the curve looks like currently. (Where music sounds good but HT sounds limited).



And with center added:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
There is no one-size-fits-all house curve. I'm willing to bet that yours continues to slope up until the low end of your sub region. I found that I was happier with a flatter house curve.
You may also want to try starting the curve at a lower frequency (so it affects music less).
Michael
The original sweep without PEQ looked like this. Filters shown.



This is what the curve looks like currently. (Where music sounds good but HT sounds limited).



And with center added:

What sounds good with music to my ears also works well for HT... but YMMV.

Regarding those filters and the match range, for a 15Hz to 300Hz sub measure, use a 15Hz to 300Hz match range. And even if you prefer to set it up to 200Hz or something lower, don't set it too low (like 100Hz in this example), because it is then ignoring the 2 peaks right above 100Hz.
You may also want to do the following... base PEQ filters off LFE ch4 measure with AVR crossover at 80Hz AND for the target line in REW EQ tool use subwoofer instead of none and add LPF at 120Hz/24dB per octave (but leave LF cutoff at zero). This will give you a smooth 24dB per octave roll off in the LFE channel starting around 120Hz, which is what you want. Of course, this can be combined with the house curve.
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post #20130 of 21555 Old 08-21-2016, 03:17 PM
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This is what my ch4 (LFE) measure looks like... I had to use 110Hz for smoothest roll off:

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