Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 674 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old Today, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post





Should the next step be taking readings with YPAO on, speakers set to small and crossover to 80hz?

(If I haven't made it obvious enough, I'm new to all this :-s
As a starting point, you have selected the measurements which will look the worst. Personally, I would start with measurements that reveal how the system sounds when you are listening to it. This means you should turn room correction on, connect all speakers and subs, set mains to Small with the appropriate crossover value, say 80Hz, and then measure center+subs, left+subs, and right+subs. This will show the "best case" response of the listening room.

Once you have this baseline, you can start analyzing the measurements for areas that need to be addressed. That is where you can drill down, using some of the measurements you started with, to assess the source of anything that doesn't please you.
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That looks exactly like post 20187 to me; it's something I definitely think would be worth trying.
Michael

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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
do you think this is worth a try over the one posted above?



It goes up about a dB each 10Hz increment from 60Hz->50Hz, 50Hz to 40Hz, 40Hz->30Hz.
I left LF and HF Rise Slope set to 1.8. Also why do you have individual max boost set to 18 and why are you cutting if off at 110Hz?

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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
That looks exactly like post 20187 to me; it's something I definitely think would be worth trying.
Michael
thanks, I'll try it...in the past I didn't like house curves, but those always had a continuously rising slope from the crossover frequency (or higher) down to 19Hz or 20Hz.

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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I left LF and HF Rise Slope set to 1.8. Also why do you have individual max boost set to 18 and why are you cutting if off at 110Hz?
I'm using the house curve.txt file instead:

30(Hz) 3.0 (dB)

60(Hz) 0.0 (dB)

Individual max boost is to fix the massive dip around 60Hz, no overall boost though.. I have tried leaving both at zero, but then I'm missing too much energy in that crucial range. It doesn't sound bad and it doesn't cause too much distortion at my listening levels and above.

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I'm cutting off at 110Hz (instead of 120Hz) because it gives me a smoother roll off... this is LFE channel BTW

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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Follow Jerry's guide. The front right will probably improve with sub on, so we need left/sub, right/sub, center/sub. What xo options are available with your AVR?
Don't use YPAO just yet.
Michael
The AVR shows xo points at 40, 60, 80, 90, 100, 110, 120 etc to 200hz....just realized who Jerry is >

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
As a starting point, you have selected the measurements which will look the worst. Personally, I would start with measurements that reveal how the system sounds when you are listening to it. This means you should turn room correction on, connect all speakers and subs, set mains to Small with the appropriate crossover value, say 80Hz, and then measure center+subs, left+subs, and right+subs. This will show the "best case" response of the listening room.

Once you have this baseline, you can start analyzing the measurements for areas that need to be addressed. That is where you can drill down, using some of the measurements you started with, to assess the source of anything that doesn't please you.
Thank you. Will report back with those. When you guys say 'right+sub', I'm assuming it means choose Channel 1.1 on REW measurements page and run it say 15hz to 20000hz and it will automatically engage the sub since the speaker is set to small and crossed over in AVR, yes?
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Yes.

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post
Thank you. Will report back with those. When you guys say 'right+sub', I'm assuming it means choose Channel 1.1 on REW measurements page and run it say 15hz to 20000hz and it will automatically engage the sub since the speaker is set to small and crossed over in AVR, yes?
So YPAO set sub at -6.5db and centre at +2.0db whilst FL is 0 and FR is +0.5db...set speakers to small and crossed at 80hz. Here is FL+Sub, FR+Sub, C+Sub and combined, 15 to 20k hz with 1/6 smoothing.
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Last edited by GuidingGod; Today at 02:48 PM.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post
So YPAO set sub at -6.5db and centre at +2.0db whilst FL is 0 and FR is +0.5db...set speakers to small and crossed at 80hz. Here is FL+Sub, FR+Sub, C+Sub and combined, 15 to 20k hz with 1/6 smoothing.
Thanks for providing these so quickly. We now have a true picture of what you are hearing in your listening room. Not terrible, but room for improvement. Below 100Hz there is a major issue. IMHO, there are a number of things that might improve your response, depending on how serious you want to get:

- Experimenting with various speaker placements, using REW to guide you.
- Adding one or more subs (the only real way to improve bass response).
- Switching to an AVR with a better room correction system (e.g. Audyssey XT32), or adding a MiniDSP 88A and switching to Dirac Live (I am not a YPAO fan).

Only the first suggestion is free...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Thanks for providing these so quickly. We now have a true picture of what you are hearing in your listening room. Not terrible, but room for improvement. Below 100Hz there is a major issue. IMHO, there are a number of things that might improve your response, depending on how serious you want to get:

- Experimenting with various speaker placements, using REW to guide you.
- Adding one or more subs (the only real way to improve bass response).
- Switching to an AVR with a better room correction system (e.g. Audyssey XT32), or adding a MiniDSP 88A and switching to Dirac Live (I am not a YPAO fan).

Only the first suggestion is free...
Thanks for taking the time Jerry, much appreciated. Speaker placement unfortunately is dictated by the lady of the house so sort of non negotiable. The sub though is small and can be moved around if needed. I think a second sub of the same type will be the next splurge when funds allow.

In the meantime, I downloaded Dirac Live free trial for PC (since it is the main source for playback in this setup, containing all bluray rips and flac music et al). I ran through the setup, did the measurements and saved the target curve filters. There is a definite improvement in sound when listening to music...specifically, some vocals sound like a veil was removed. Secondly, there is some lessening of echoing (resonance? possibly because of the hard floor surface?) that I felt I was hearing before. Not sure how much is user bias but I really do feel I'm hearing an improvement.

A couple of questions:
(1) How do I do a reading in REW now, with Dirac filters engaged? I want to see what difference it has made on the graphs. But when I use Dirac as the default sound output in windows, REW refuses to measure anything, it just shuts down. I set the Dirac to output to ASIO. (attaching a couple of screenshots)

(2) Will spending funds, when they are available, on room treatments pay more dividends, more so than spending them on other things like Dirac for this setup, in your opinion?

Thanks again for taking the time.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
(Or should I shelve it at 30Hz, so 20Hz-30Hz is flat and higher than >30Hz?)
I have found, with my setup, that not shelving causes a "boominess" that I don't like, but your system and preferences will be different.
That's why it's called a "house curve," it's your house, so give it a try and see what you think.
Michael
shelving it definitely sounds better... now I'm just wondering if I should shelve it at 40Hz or higher..?

@citsur86

What material do you use to test out your post PEQ sub response?
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Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post

A couple of questions:
(1) How do I do a reading in REW now, with Dirac filters engaged? I want to see what difference it has made on the graphs. But when I use Dirac as the default sound output in windows, REW refuses to measure anything, it just shuts down. I set the Dirac to output to ASIO. (attaching a couple of screenshots)

(2) Will spending funds, when they are available, on room treatments pay more dividends, more so than spending them on other things like Dirac for this setup, in your opinion?

Thanks again for taking the time.
I don't know anything different when taking REW measurements with Dirac from taking measurements with YPAO. I have no idea why your system is locking up.

As for room treatments, they address areas which we really haven't touched on with your measurements. For example, treatments can address bass resonance and specular reflections. The former is measured by the Waterfall graph, and the latter by the ETC graph. If you were to make your REW MDAT measurement file available for downloading, we could look at these two areas as well.
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Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
shelving it definitely sounds better... now I'm just wondering if I should shelve it at 40Hz or higher..?
@citsur86
What material do you use to test out your post PEQ sub response?
You know my answer to the first: try it!

As to the second, see my sig.

Michael

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GuidingGod View Post
(1) How do I do a reading in REW now, with Dirac filters engaged? I want to see what difference it has made on the graphs. But when I use Dirac as the default sound output in windows, REW refuses to measure anything, it just shuts down. I set the Dirac to output to ASIO. (attaching a couple of screenshots).
Try disabling the others (not just turning them off).
Michael

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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
I'm still thinking I somehow messed up at some point though. I'm gonna list out the process I did and see if anyone here can pinpoint some mistake I made or something.

1. I turned off EQ on the AVR and set the Xover to 200hz. Unplugged CC.

2. Played pink noise CH3 in REW at -12db with subwoofer calibration chosen, and adjusted master volume on AVR until SPL in REW until it was at around 91db. This was AVR at MV 51 (my AVR goes from 0-80).

3. Ran sweep on CH3 at -12db. EQd that sweep to flat around 85db target line. Applied PEQ Filters to 2x4hd.

4. Reran sweep, looked good.

5. Plugged center channel back in and ran MCACC (pioneers Audysey) adjusting volume knob on sub until it EQd to -6db.

6. I wanted to do a quick sanity check and just run the CH4 LFE only and see how it looked with EQ and PEQ applied. So I pulled up SPL and Generator and played CH4 at -22db pink noise sub calibration. To get to 90db, I had to adjust up to 67! I NEVER turn it anywhere near that loud. This is where/why I'm doubting myself. Why all of the sudden, even though before on CH3 at -12db with center unplugged MV 50 got me to 91db, now I need 67 to get channel for at -22db?

If i understand correctly, LFE channel had 10db added to it which is why we subtract an extra 10 in REW from the normal -12. It's almost like the AVR isn't boosting the extra 10db on the LFE channel. Sorry for the novel!
Remember this ^? Yeahhhhhh I realized that somehow the LFE Attenuate function had been not only turned on but set to -15db so my LFE was being lowered by 15db the whole time! That's why this craziness. I found this out last night during my sweeps and forgot to post about it all day today - wanted to make sure I cleared that up lol.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
shelving it definitely sounds better... now I'm just wondering if I should shelve it at 40Hz or higher..?

@citsur86

What material do you use to test out your post PEQ sub response?
The first thing I play is the THX clip found in Scuba Steves v2 demo disc in the Surround section. I play this mainly for the parts with the mushrooms. This gives me a very good immediate answer to "Am I in the ballbark"

If that passes the sniff test, I usually play the Iron Man scene from from the same demo disc, also under surround section and listen for when he flies and creates a sonic boom as well as towards the end of the clip when hes shooting the energy pulse whatever you want to call them out of his hands.

Sometimes I'll also play a little after 56 minutes into the dark knight for the gunshots in the basement scene- (They can be felt hard with my current PEQ)

That gives me a good sense of the mid to upper bass stuff. Once I'm satisfied with those I go into the LFE section of this disc and sample cloverfield/ironman (missle scene), and some others to see if my lower extension is good. I found tonight while I'm still in love with this sub and my current PEQ, I was running it a little hot even for my taste. The bass was awesome, but after a while it started to kind of steal the show and make itself front and center. I lowered it so it was only 2db hot and it nicely integrated with the rest of the system. My only complaint at this point is that because it's nearfield, its very localized. I can feel that the bass is coming from my right the majority of the time. After I realized what I posted in the post before this one, I toyed with moving it back to the front left of the room, but I remembered it has the best response where it is, so I think I am going to just leave it. Will be running sweeps now since I forgot to do the 5-20,0000 stuff last night with channel 1,2,3+sub

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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Try disabling the others (not just turning them off).
Michael
Thank you - working now I think. Without changing any other parameters, the measured readings change when I toggle Dirac filters on/off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I don't know anything different when taking REW measurements with Dirac from taking measurements with YPAO. I have no idea why your system is locking up.

As for room treatments, they address areas which we really haven't touched on with your measurements. For example, treatments can address bass resonance and specular reflections. The former is measured by the Waterfall graph, and the latter by the ETC graph. If you were to make your REW MDAT measurement file available for downloading, we could look at these two areas as well.
So I changed the listening position a bit, re did the Dirac measurements and took REW measures for with and without Dirac. The difference for the front right speaker seems quite nuts! Either Dirac did a really good job or I'm completely lost here. Jerry here's the link for the MDAT zip https://www.dropbox.com/s/z2gwi99khp...20measures.zip
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
shelving it definitely sounds better... now I'm just wondering if I should shelve it at 40Hz or higher..?
@citsur86
What material do you use to test out your post PEQ sub response?
You know my answer to the first: try it!

As to the second, see my sig.

Michael
I will try it, which of those can be burned to a DVD?





Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by PlasmaPZ80U View Post
shelving it definitely sounds better... now I'm just wondering if I should shelve it at 40Hz or higher..?

@citsur86

What material do you use to test out your post PEQ sub response?

The first thing I play is the THX clip found in Scuba Steves v2 demo disc in the Surround section. I play this mainly for the parts with the mushrooms. This gives me a very good immediate answer to "Am I in the ballbark"

If that passes the sniff test, I usually play the Iron Man scene from from the same demo disc, also under surround section and listen for when he flies and creates a sonic boom as well as towards the end of the clip when hes shooting the energy pulse whatever you want to call them out of his hands.

Sometimes I'll also play a little after 56 minutes into the dark knight for the gunshots in the basement scene- (They can be felt hard with my current PEQ)

That gives me a good sense of the mid to upper bass stuff. Once I'm satisfied with those I go into the LFE section of this disc and sample cloverfield/ironman (missle scene), and some others to see if my lower extension is good. I found tonight while I'm still in love with this sub and my current PEQ, I was running it a little hot even for my taste. The bass was awesome, but after a while it started to kind of steal the show and make itself front and center. I lowered it so it was only 2db hot and it nicely integrated with the rest of the system. My only complaint at this point is that because it's nearfield, its very localized. I can feel that the bass is coming from my right the majority of the time. After I realized what I posted in the post before this one, I toyed with moving it back to the front left of the room, but I remembered it has the best response where it is, so I think I am going to just leave it. Will be running sweeps now since I forgot to do the 5-20,0000 stuff last night with channel 1,2,3+sub
I'll have to look into it... do I need a BD burner for the demo disc?

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Just ran REW for the 5-20,000Hz and it doesn't look good at all! But it still sounds good, so not sure how far I'll take this. Moreso because I don't know what I could do anyways. This is with PEQ apples to Sub and EQ on with an 80hz xover.

CC+sub, FR+sub, FL+sub, and FR+FL+Sub with 1/6 smoothing.



FL+Sub vs. FR+Sub



CC+Sub vs FL+FR+Sub - Strangely, these 2 seem very close to one another.



I mean, I'm open to suggestions, but this was the best place for the sub. I guess I could try to move it one more time now that I figured out LFE Attenuate was causing my issues before with little output in the other location....
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