Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 679 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20341 of 22697 Old 08-31-2016, 10:15 AM
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No disrespect, Donktard, but IMO this question is best asked in the REW forum on Home Theater Shack. The focus here is on USB microphones.
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post #20342 of 22697 Old 08-31-2016, 10:30 AM
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No problem, just pointing it out here for some rare folk who might have same issues.

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post #20343 of 22697 Old 08-31-2016, 07:40 PM
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I am looking for some advice on positioning dual (identical) subs for the best combined FR.
I have REW setup and can take measurements.
Once I get that right , I will re-run Audyssey..
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post #20344 of 22697 Old 08-31-2016, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I am looking for some advice on positioning dual (identical) subs for the best combined FR.
I have REW setup and can take measurements.
Once I get that right , I will re-run Audyssey..
Try the 1/4 and 3/4 points along the front wall for a start, then take measurements.
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post #20345 of 22697 Old 08-31-2016, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Try the 1/4 and 3/4 points along the front wall for a start, then take measurements.
Thanks. I will try that.
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post #20346 of 22697 Old 09-01-2016, 04:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aaranddeeman View Post
I am looking for some advice on positioning dual (identical) subs for the best combined FR.
I have REW setup and can take measurements.
Once I get that right , I will re-run Audyssey..
This thread has useful information:
mtg90a's multiple subwoofers mains integration how-to
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post #20347 of 22697 Old 09-01-2016, 04:52 AM
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post #20348 of 22697 Old 09-01-2016, 10:01 PM
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Trying out REW to be used with my Emotiva XMC-1 to improve bass in my room. Seems to have a bass null in main listening position. Subwoofers are 2 JTR passive captivators run by peavey ipr2-5000. I have a mini-dsp that i use for PEQ and xover duty.

Both subwoofers are behind AT projector screen and unfortunately i can't move subwoofers due to theater design. Walls all have acoustic panels. Sub setting is set at Mono and here's the measurement of both subwoofers together. Red line is original measurement while blue line is using the Auto-EQ setting imported to the mini-dsp.

Any comments on the graph and what i can do to improve bass
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post #20349 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 03:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
Trying out REW to be used with my Emotiva XMC-1 to improve bass in my room. Seems to have a bass null in main listening position. Subwoofers are 2 JTR passive captivators run by peavey ipr2-5000. I have a mini-dsp that i use for PEQ and xover duty.



Both subwoofers are behind AT projector screen and unfortunately i can't move subwoofers due to theater design. Walls all have acoustic panels. Sub setting is set at Mono and here's the measurement of both subwoofers together. Red line is original measurement while blue line is using the Auto-EQ setting imported to the mini-dsp.



Any comments on the graph and what i can do to improve bass


It looks like your not measuring your subs lower response. What subs do you have? You should start your sweep 5db below their lower extension to at least 200hz. Also is this sweep channel 4 only?

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Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: 2x Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #20350 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 04:18 AM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
It looks like your not measuring your subs lower response. What subs do you have? You should start your sweep 5db below their lower extension to at least 200hz. Also is this sweep channel 4 only?


Jtr captivator passive running on peavey ipr2 5000 @2ohms

How do i start the sweep 5db below their lower extension ? How do i find out their lower extension. Sorry first time tuning

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

Same as this subwoofer and box but without the amp



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post #20351 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 04:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
Jtr captivator passive running on peavey ipr2 5000 @2ohms

How do i start the sweep 5db below their lower extension ? How do i find out their lower extension. Sorry first time tuning

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/captivator/

Same as this subwoofer and box but without the amp



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Sorry I meant 5hz below their lower extension not db. Looks like they down to 16hz but 2 likely go lower. I would run the sweep from 10hz-200hz. You can set this on the screen from where you run.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: 2x Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #20352 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 04:27 AM
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ah gotcha, will run it later and post here

Gain should not matter When running these tests right ? I set the gain when i run dirac


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post #20353 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 04:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
ah gotcha, will run it later and post here

Gain should not matter When running these tests right ? I set the gain when i run dirac


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Not too sure about that but @AustinJerry , whose active here, has a guide in his signature that he created and is VERY helpful. Check that out as it should help you out a lot.

My Current "Living Room" Home Theater!
Plasma 50" TV: Samsung PN50C8000 — DLP Projector: Optoma GT1080
Projector Screen: Elite VMAX2 Electric — Receiver:Pioneer Elite VSX-44 — Fronts: B&W 684 S1
Center: B&W CM Center S2 — Surrounds: B&W 685 S1 — Subwoofer: 2x Rythmik FV15HP
Rear Surrounds: Polk Audio T15 — Front Heights: Polk Audio T15
Check out my most recent subwoofer frequency response (1 vs. 2 port) and full system response.
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post #20354 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 06:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
Trying out REW to be used with my Emotiva XMC-1 to improve bass in my room. Seems to have a bass null in main listening position. Subwoofers are 2 JTR passive captivators run by peavey ipr2-5000. I have a mini-dsp that i use for PEQ and xover duty.

Both subwoofers are behind AT projector screen and unfortunately i can't move subwoofers due to theater design. Walls all have acoustic panels. Sub setting is set at Mono and here's the measurement of both subwoofers together. Red line is original measurement while blue line is using the Auto-EQ setting imported to the mini-dsp.

Any comments on the graph and what i can do to improve bass
Are the measurements taken with Dirac Live turned on? And to assess the true bass response, a better representation would be to measure subs+mains, usually sub+center. Output the REW measurement to HDMI3 only (center channel), with center set to "small". This will show how well the center picks up the low frequency output above the crossover point, and show the phase relationship between subs and mains. What is the crossover value?
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post #20355 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 06:38 AM
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I'm looking at getting a UMIK-1 soon with REW, but I have a question to the pros regarding level matching speaker and subs.

I'm currently using a Galaxy CM-140 SPL meter and when using the pink noise in my AVR I set the speakers to 75 dB and the subwoofer to 72 dB (I've been told that SPL meters read bass a little low, so 72 dB is actually closer to 75 dB).

If I were to get the UMIK and use REW, would I still set the sub to 72 dB or would everything be set to 75 dB? The UMIK is more accurate than a typical SPL meter?
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post #20356 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
I'm looking at getting a UMIK-1 soon with REW, but I have a question to the pros regarding level matching speaker and subs.

I'm currently using a Galaxy CM-140 SPL meter and when using the pink noise in my AVR I set the speakers to 75 dB and the subwoofer to 72 dB (I've been told that SPL meters read bass a little low, so 72 dB is actually closer to 75 dB).

If I were to get the UMIK and use REW, would I still set the sub to 72 dB or would everything be set to 75 dB? The UMIK is more accurate than a typical SPL meter?
I think you will find a calibrated mic will be more accurate than most SPL meters. If your objective is to match levels across all speakers, then I would use the same value for the subs. As a side note, some have reported that speaker levels can vary whether room correction is on or off. On D&M AVR's with Audyssey, the pink noise level-setting test tones from the AVR are output with Audyssey off. The most accurate way to level-set the speakers would be with a test disk, with room correction turned on. It depends on how accurate you want to be, of course. In my personal experience, the difference with room correction off versus on rarely exceeds 1dB.
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post #20357 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 07:10 AM
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I think you will find a calibrated mic will be more accurate than most SPL meters. If your objective is to match levels across all speakers, then I would use the same value for the subs. As a side note, some have reported that speaker levels can vary whether room correction is on or off. On D&M AVR's with Audyssey, the pink noise level-setting test tones from the AVR are output with Audyssey off. The most accurate way to level-set the speakers would be with a test disk, with room correction turned on. It depends on how accurate you want to be, of course. In my personal experience, the difference with room correction off versus on rarely exceeds 1dB.
Thank you for the detailed reply AustinJerry.

So you personally use a test disk to set levels? Just not sure how this would affect the AVR as far as reference levels goes. Since I've always used the pink noise in the AVR to calibrate levels (0 reading 75 dB for all speakers).

I do have a Marant receiver (SR5011). What test disk would you recommend for setting levels?

Last edited by Stephan Mire; 09-02-2016 at 07:13 AM.
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post #20358 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 07:27 AM
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Thank you for the detailed reply AustinJerry.

So you personally use a test disk to set levels? Just not sure how this would affect the AVR as far as reference levels goes. Since I've always used the pink noise in the AVR to calibrate levels (0 reading 75 dB for all speakers).

I do have a Marant receiver (SR5011). What test disk would you recommend for setting levels?
I have a number of test disks with Audio test tones, with Spears&Munsil Blu-Ray ver 2 being my favorite (because of its suite of video tests as well). However, as I mentioned, the level differences I have observed have rarely been more than 1dB, which is borderline inaudible. I usually use the AVR pink noise tones for simplicity.
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post #20359 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 10:28 AM
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Are the measurements taken with Dirac Live turned on? And to assess the true bass response, a better representation would be to measure subs+mains, usually sub+center. Output the REW measurement to HDMI3 only (center channel), with center set to "small". This will show how well the center picks up the low frequency output above the crossover point, and show the phase relationship between subs and mains. What is the crossover value?
measurement is taken with dirac off

what i do is i set all the crossovers to 200 on the xmc-1 on all speakers before i measure the subwoofer ( i turn off all amplifiers except sub-amp ) then output device is XMC-1

here's what i got when i ran 10-200hz

purple line is after i use EQ and uploaded values on my mini-dspHD ( HP filter 14 , LP filter 150 )

i'm running 2 subs mono, they are beside each other behind AT screen
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post #20360 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 10:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
measurement is taken with dirac off

what i do is i set all the crossovers to 200 on the xmc-1 on all speakers before i measure the subwoofer ( i turn off all amplifiers except sub-amp ) then output device is XMC-1

here's what i got when i ran 10-200hz

purple line is after i use EQ and uploaded values on my mini-dspHD ( HP filter 14 , LP filter 150 )

i'm running 2 subs mono, they are beside each other behind AT screen
For just your sub measurement it doesnt look too bad. However I'd look to add some cuts to that peak around 80hz to bring it down so its more flat overall, which then could allow you to increase the gain to get a more level response.

However without seeing how the subs interact with your mains above and below the crossover point you've set, that suggestion may or may not be applicable.

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post #20361 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 11:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by APRisti View Post
measurement is taken with dirac off

what i do is i set all the crossovers to 200 on the xmc-1 on all speakers before i measure the subwoofer ( i turn off all amplifiers except sub-amp ) then output device is XMC-1

here's what i got when i ran 10-200hz

purple line is after i use EQ and uploaded values on my mini-dspHD ( HP filter 14 , LP filter 150 )

i'm running 2 subs mono, they are beside each other behind AT screen
I believe your original post asked for feedback and advice. As I said, in order to offer advice, I would need to see a measurement with Dirac on, and showing subs+mains (preferably the center channel), extending to 300Hz, with no smoothing.
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post #20362 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 04:59 PM
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Sorry for the delayed reply, forgot to reply i was going to post the graph later on

attached is the sub+center channel measurement graph

Crossed at 80hz with dirac on


Quote:
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I believe your original post asked for feedback and advice. As I said, in order to offer advice, I would need to see a measurement with Dirac on, and showing subs+mains (preferably the center channel), extending to 300Hz, with no smoothing.
red line is subs+center
green is center only
blue is subs only
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post #20363 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 05:38 PM
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Sorry for the delayed reply, forgot to reply i was going to post the graph later on

attached is the sub+center channel measurement graph

Crossed at 80hz with dirac on




red line is subs+center
green is center only
blue is subs only
Something doesn't look right. It doesn't make sense that that huge dip in the frequency response doesn't change when you go from sub only to subs+center. Perhaps you could make the REW MDAT file available for sharing?
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post #20364 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 05:44 PM
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Something doesn't look right. It doesn't make sense that that huge dip in the frequency response doesn't change when you go from sub only to subs+center. Perhaps you could make the REW MDAT file available for sharing?
attached the mdat file here

thanks

http://s000.tinyupload.com/?file_id=...70365987835583
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Really? Try Dropbox.com

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post #20366 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephan Mire View Post
So you personally use a test disk to set levels?
I have a test DVD that I downloaded the image from avsforum for this purpose.

Now, I spin up the disc and level set with that. It's particular helpful that it shows what the volume should be on the screen as it plays.
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post #20367 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 07:16 PM
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Really? Try Dropbox.com

sorry about that

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...7/apristi.mdat

thanks again for your help
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post #20368 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 07:28 PM
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sorry about that

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...7/apristi.mdat

thanks again for your help
What is the difference between "Main only" and "sub+center"? I still don't understand why there is a 17dB jump between 60Hz and 70Hz. Is that the DSP you are applying? From 60Hz to 15Hz the response is reasonably flat, but that jump at 60Hz must produce some over-emphasized bass. Above 70Hz the response looks typical.
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post #20369 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 07:32 PM
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Let me run everything again for comparison and get you new graphs and mdat by tomorrow


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post #20370 of 22697 Old 09-02-2016, 09:03 PM
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Let me run everything again for comparison and get you new graphs and mdat by tomorrow


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You did not answer the question, "What is the difference between "Main only" and "sub+center"?"
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