Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 681 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20401 of 20480 Old 09-09-2016, 03:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
Read the whole thing… it's all relevant!
I did and nobody can confirm;

Is mic supposed to be at 10 on volume

do I set speakers to full range on laptop?

When running generator do i select full range?

Last edited by keenly; 09-09-2016 at 03:14 AM.
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post #20402 of 20480 Old 09-09-2016, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by keenly View Post
I did and nobody can confirm;

is mic supposed to be at 10 on vivlume

do I set speakers to full range?
Nothing to confirm as the guide couldn't be clearer unlike your question.

What is vivlume ?
10 on what?
If the guide doesn't say set speakers to full range then don't
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post #20403 of 20480 Old 09-09-2016, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Lesmor View Post
Nothing to confirm as the guide couldn't be clearer unlike your question.

What is vivlume ?
10 on what?
If the guide doesn't say set speakers to full range then don't

Why are people on here so hostile?

10 on volume. Mic has a volume measure on laptop.

The gain of mic is 18db. Guide says Windows 7 setting should be 10 for a gain of +db

When I run a test via REW it is already at 90db on SPL meter at -24db on receiver, that is clearly not right.

This clearly states have SPL meter at 75 https://www.minidsp.com/applications...ndows#channels

The REW guide and those on here say 90

Hence I ASKED QUESTIONS.

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post #20404 of 20480 Old 09-09-2016, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by keenly View Post
Why are people on here so hostile?

10 on volume. Mic has a volume measure on laptop.

The gain of mic is 18db. Guide says Windows 7 setting should be 10 for a gain of +db

When I run a test via REW it is already at 90db on SPL meter at -24db on receiver, that is clearly not right.

This clearly states have SPL meter at 75 https://www.minidsp.com/applications...ndows#channels

The REW guide and those on here say 90

Hence I ASKED QUESTIONS.
Hostile No
just cant stand it when people criticise a perfectly good guide and are too lazy to spellcheck and phrase a question properly.
You now bring minidsp into the mix

I now see you have edited the original post its a pity you hadn't done that in the first place.
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post #20405 of 20480 Old 09-09-2016, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AV_mike View Post
I would go with the highest LPF of LFE that you can set (usually 250Hz), and then use REW to generate the miniDSP filters to smooth the whole response. Don't apply any LPF at this point, as Audyssey will try to apply boost to compensate. Instead, save some PEQs in the miniDSP for use after the Aud cal, as 'in a lot of cases' the sub to satellite splice is compromised by crossover slopes not being perfectly matched, but this can be overcome by applying some low Q PEQ around the crossover region, along with the well known distance tweak to get proper phase alignment.
When you get your multiple subs going, spend some time looking at AndyCs MSO thread, for multiple sub optimisation - again using the miniDSP to create a single unified sub channel - it's worth the effort!!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, I've been reading the thread by @mtg90 about dialing in multiple subs and plan to use it.

Your idea is pretty much what I planned. I may or may not keep the filters above say 150hz, but I plan to load all the MiniDSP filters in initially and go from there.

The reason to potentially add the 24db filter at 80hz is that with my L/R & Sub I get some funkyness a bit north of the xover (see earlier graph in post). I'm not sure if thats due to XT32 doing something, or if I am getting cancellation from the sub, or the L/R or both. By making the LFE transition more of a cliff I could test if its the sub causing issues or not.

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post #20406 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 12:51 AM
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Hello,

is it bad to boost the upper frequency's or dips in the HF range? i was curious to try something but i haven't gone pass EQ in the software yet, i wanted to know before i test it on the sub.





Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
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Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20407 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 06:05 AM
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Hello, novice questions with basic REW problems:

I installed this version of REW, I have Windows 8 V5.17 beta 8 Windows installer with JRE allowing multiple instances
Is this the correct version? TIA

In Windows audio setup I have the input device (UMIK-1) level set at 52% or 0dB, when taking measurements (all SPL), there's a slight pause and I see 99dB for a fraction of a second and then the sweep starts, at the end of the sweep I continuously get at least 35-38 dB of headroom left after sweep, should it be that high? I tried raising the mic's level in Windows to a higher value 100% or 24.5 dB. With this setting the headroom sweep is more inline with what's stated in the guide 5-25dB. Which should I use (mic's level)?

Please excuse my ignorance of this next problem I'm having I'll try to explain it so it could somehow be understood what's happening. When I click measure that 99dB is present for a split second and the sweep is delayed longer than I think it should be and when it does start it seems like I'm missing the lower frequencies of the measurement, in other words it doesn't cover the full F range for which I configured it to be (15-20000Hz), sometimes I get no output below 200Hz on the graph.

If I repeat the exact same measurement a second time it seems to work just fine. Is there any possible explanation for these queries, sorry for these basic problems. I just don't understand when I take a second measurement with the exact same configuration it's different. I have two UMIKs and tested both and they are working, confirmed by Jerry's test with sensitivity file and RS meter and SG 1000Hz sine wave compared with REW's SPL, they are within 1-2 dB of each other. Thanks again to all who may try to answer this weird problem.
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post #20408 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
is it bad to boost the upper frequency's or dips in the HF range?
A boost is one thing; an 18dB BOOST is not a good idea.
You're probably trying to fight a null, which is a loosing battle. Try moving the speakers around a little.
Michael

Did you really need to quote that entire post in your reply?
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post #20409 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 06:38 AM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
A boost is one thing; an 18dB BOOST is not a good idea.
You're probably trying to fight a null, which is a loosing battle. Try moving the speakers around a little.
Michael
its the sub and that the best placement for it unfortunately, i might as well leave it alone if its a null.

Receiver - Sony STR-DH550
Fronts - Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-280F
Center
- Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-450C
Surrounds - Don't ask lol
Sub - Rythmik FV15HP
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post #20410 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahblaza View Post
Hello, novice questions with basic REW problems:

I installed this version of REW, I have Windows 8 V5.17 beta 8 Windows installer with JRE allowing multiple instances
Is this the correct version? TIA

In Windows audio setup I have the input device (UMIK-1) level set at 52% or 0dB, when taking measurements (all SPL), there's a slight pause and I see 99dB for a fraction of a second and then the sweep starts, at the end of the sweep I continuously get at least 35-38 dB of headroom left after sweep, should it be that high? I tried raising the mic's level in Windows to a higher value 100% or 24.5 dB. With this setting the headroom sweep is more inline with what's stated in the guide 5-25dB. Which should I use (mic's level)?

Please excuse my ignorance of this next problem I'm having I'll try to explain it so it could somehow be understood what's happening. When I click measure that 99dB is present for a split second and the sweep is delayed longer than I think it should be and when it does start it seems like I'm missing the lower frequencies of the measurement, in other words it doesn't cover the full F range for which I configured it to be (15-20000Hz), sometimes I get no output below 200Hz on the graph.

If I repeat the exact same measurement a second time it seems to work just fine. Is there any possible explanation for these queries, sorry for these basic problems. I just don't understand when I take a second measurement with the exact same configuration it's different. I have two UMIKs and tested both and they are working, confirmed by Jerry's test with sensitivity file and RS meter and SG 1000Hz sine wave compared with REW's SPL, they are within 1-2 dB of each other. Thanks again to all who may try to answer this weird problem.
I no longer have Windows 8, but as far as I remember, the mic level recommendations in the guide should be correct. One might ask why you didn't take advantage of the free Win10 upgrade--it is far superior and completely problem-free on my several computers. It is always more difficult providing advice to someone who is running an obsolete OS.

The slight pause may be the logic that would normally measure the timing reference speaker. If you don't have timing reference configured, the software may still pause briefly--I wouldn't worry about it.

Regarding the missing low frequency measurement for the first pass, do your subs have an "auto-on" setting. Could it be possible that the subs have gone to sleep and that the first sweep is waking them up? Otherwise, I don't know what could be causing this.
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post #20411 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 08:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
Hello,

is it bad to boost the upper frequency's or dips in the HF range? i was curious to try something but i haven't gone pass EQ in the software yet, i wanted to know before i test it on the sub.
Those dips look very similar to ones I had in the bass and upper bass regions.

In the bass region they are due to subwoofer location so moving the sub around helped.

In the upper bass they were SBIR so moving the speakers closer to the wall and letting my room EQ deal with it has worked best so far. I could not put them out farther from the wall than they were.
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post #20412 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by keenly View Post
Why are people on here so hostile?
Not hostile. OTOH, out of these thousands of posts, hundreds of them are asking questions that have been asked and answered before. Then hundreds more ask questions that are answered in @AustinJerry 's guide. So, curt, yes ;-)

It would be best if you could tell us what section/page/paragraph of the guide you're not understanding. That way we (austinjerry) may find something to improve in it and we'll know to stop suggesting that you read the guide ;-)

My suggestion: Ignore all other sources of information. Use the guide ONLY for now. There are many many conflicting POVs/methodologies. Stick to the one for now.
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post #20413 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Regarding the missing low frequency measurement for the first pass, do your subs have an "auto-on" setting. Could it be possible that the subs have gone to sleep and that the first sweep is waking them up? Otherwise, I don't know what could be causing this.
I get burned constantly by subwoofer auto-on settings. One way around it is to use the generator to play subwoofer pink noise for a few seconds before starting a round of sweeps.
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post #20414 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 08:06 PM
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I no longer have Windows 8, but as far as I remember, the mic level recommendations in the guide should be correct. One might ask why you didn't take advantage of the free Win10 upgrade--it is far superior and completely problem-free on my several computers. It is always more difficult providing advice to someone who is running an obsolete OS.

The slight pause may be the logic that would normally measure the timing reference speaker. If you don't have timing reference configured, the software may still pause briefly--I wouldn't worry about it.

Regarding the missing low frequency measurement for the first pass, do your subs have an "auto-on" setting. Could it be possible that the subs have gone to sleep and that the first sweep is waking them up? Otherwise, I don't know what could be causing this.
Thanks Jerry for the response, I didn't take advantage of the free Win10 upgrade as I thought it would be too intimidating for me, I'm not very tech savvy and very shy to try new updates. That makes sense with the slight pause with timing reference speaker, it's not enabled but I understand your point. I do have auto on setting with both of my subs put I always power them up when running REW.

Can I still take advantage of the Win10 option or is it no longer free? I really do regret not upgrading as my wife is using that OS and having no problems. I still have a couple of Vista computers active and running, talk about obsolete..........

Jerry my wife just gave me one of her two Win10 laptops and I will try to download REW and the ASIO driver and see if I can get any better results, I'll update as soon as I get familiar with it. Is this current version of REW I should be using?

V5.17 beta 8 Windows installer with JRE allowing multiple instances.............?
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post #20415 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 08:36 PM
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Page 28 of the Guide.
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post #20416 of 20480 Old 09-10-2016, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Page 28 of the Guide.
Which of the three do you recommend, sorry just want to get the right one or doesn't it matter?

From the download page:

V5.17 beta 9 Windows installer (requires Java 7 or 8)
V5.17 beta 9 Windows installer with JRE (includes private Java 8 JRE)
V5.17 beta 9 Windows installer with JRE allowing multiple instances


Thanks
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post #20417 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 03:16 AM
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The "multiple instances" build is for people who want to have more than one instance of REW running at the same time - I guess an example use might be to have different measurements loaded in each REW instance and flick back and forth between them. It is a niche case, and can be problematic if both instances try to access the soundcard, for example. For most people the Windows installer with JRE is the best option.
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Originally Posted by MrGrey View Post
its the sub and that the best placement for it unfortunately, i might as well leave it alone if its a null.
Set individual max boost to say... +3dB. Also, your nulls are at 93 and about 110 Hz and you will most likely use crossover between 60 and 80 Hz like most people...unless for some reason you need to cross it higher. If your crossover happens to be at 80 that 93 Hz dip might still show up on your overall response, so I suggest you try adjusting crossover slope if possible (-12 or -24dB) and measure to see which setting gives better overall response.

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Originally Posted by JohnPM View Post
The "multiple instances" build is for people who want to have more than one instance of REW running at the same time - I guess an example use might be to have different measurements loaded in each REW instance and flick back and forth between them. It is a niche case, and can be problematic if both instances try to access the soundcard, for example. For most people the Windows installer with JRE is the best option.
Thank you John for the explanation, the "multiple instances" should have registered right away that it's referring to more than one instance of REW available, the problem is the "obvious is not so obvious to me. I really appreciate your input on this, I just installed REW the other day and it was beta 8 and already it's 9 today. Thanks for all that you do for this community and to Jerry for keeping this wonderful tool available for those of us that are constantly asking questions.

Jeffrey
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post #20420 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 03:30 PM
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Hi,

I have began my foray into REW and taking some measurements. I have read autinjerry's 100+ page intro to REW plus his 30+ page REW Sub intro plus as much of this thread as I could.

I have taken my first measurements today and have not been able to figure out how to have measure out beyond 200hz. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere but I've failed to be able to find it. Any help would be appreciated.

Here is the drop box link to the .mdat file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tx0t85nh4z...0Sub.mdat?dl=0

FYI, this is only with one rear right sub. I am in the process of finishing my box for 4 SI 18" DS4's. The two rear subs are SI 18" HT's. I have my mini dsp HD as well as two inuke 6000's (two for front 4 subs) and one inuke nu 4 6000 to power the rear two subs and the front two mains. I was just running some measurements to get familiar with the software. Thanks!
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post #20421 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by mharris2007 View Post
Hi,

I have began my foray into REW and taking some measurements. I have read autinjerry's 100+ page intro to REW plus his 30+ page REW Sub intro plus as much of this thread as I could.

I have taken my first measurements today and have not been able to figure out how to have measure out beyond 200hz. I'm sure it's a setting somewhere but I've failed to be able to find it. Any help would be appreciated.

Here is the drop box link to the .mdat file.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/tx0t85nh4z...0Sub.mdat?dl=0

FYI, this is only with one rear right sub. I am in the process of finishing my box for 4 SI 18" DS4's. The two rear subs are SI 18" HT's. I have my mini dsp HD as well as two inuke 6000's (two for front 4 subs) and one inuke nu 4 6000 to power the rear two subs and the front two mains. I was just running some measurements to get familiar with the software. Thanks!
Welcome aboard!

By "measure out beyond 200hz", do you mean you can't configure the measurement sweep to go past 200Hz? If that is what you mean, then on the measurement tab simply place a higher value in the "End Freq" box, e.g. 20,000Hz.

If I have misunderstood you, describe the issue in more detail, please.
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post #20422 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Welcome aboard!

By "measure out beyond 200hz", do you mean you can't configure the measurement sweep to go past 200Hz? If that is what you mean, then on the measurement tab simply place a higher value in the "End Freq" box, e.g. 20,000Hz.

If I have misunderstood you, describe the issue in more detail, please.
Austin jerry! Duh! I didn't know I could change the frequency sweep to a higher value. I thought it was just automatically set. To my ear it sounded like the sweep was higher than 200hz but I'll double check. I really appreciate your contributions to all of us less experienced folks. I'd be happy to donate money to you for all your help! I really enjoyed your equipment thread as well.

I'll be back with more questions and grape once I get my six subs situated.
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post #20423 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by mharris2007 View Post
Austin jerry! Duh! I didn't know I could change the frequency sweep to a higher value. I thought it was just automatically set. To my ear it sounded like the sweep was higher than 200hz but I'll double check. I really appreciate your contributions to all of us less experienced folks. I'd be happy to donate money to you for all your help! I really enjoyed your equipment thread as well.

I'll be back with more questions and grape once I get my six subs situated.
No donations necessary. Just enjoy your learning experience.
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AJ,
jjk43 from San Antonio here. Have followed all your instructions on miniDSP, REW, and Dirac. Good results. Thanks for posting your research.
I would like to implement KB701's Sub Distance Tweak.
I am running a 5.1 system with 2 subs through JRiver and Win10. I employ an Oppo 105 with hdmi.
Can you explain how to take measurements of the Dirac results with REW? It seems like the drivers conflict...KS Intel Display Audio (Oppo hdmi) vs ASIO4ALL (REW Umik-1 usb).
Thank you very much sir for all your expertise, well done
jjk43
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post #20425 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 07:04 PM
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AJ,
jjk43 from San Antonio here. Have followed all your instructions on miniDSP, REW, and Dirac. Good results. Thanks for posting your research.
I would like to implement KB701's Sub Distance Tweak.
I am running a 5.1 system with 2 subs through JRiver and Win10. I employ an Oppo 105 with hdmi.
Can you explain how to take measurements of the Dirac results with REW? It seems like the drivers conflict...KS Intel Display Audio (Oppo hdmi) vs ASIO4ALL (REW Umik-1 usb).
Thank you very much sir for all your expertise, well done
jjk43
Sorry to disappoint, but I have no experience with running Dirac on a PC, and why there would be issues running REW. You will need to find a forum that has users running PC-based Dirac. Good luck.
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post #20426 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 08:15 PM
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Sorry to disappoint, but I have no experience with running Dirac on a PC, and why there would be issues running REW. You will need to find a forum that has users running PC-based Dirac. Good luck.
Ok, thanks for taking a look.
Maybe I could ask you this slightly off-topic question...My Revel F208s measure flat down to about 35 Hz. Right now I am crossing over to 2 subs (JRiver BM). I feel like I am giving up some piston power (2x2 8 inch woofers) by crossing over at 80. The Revels are bi-amped so plenty of power to drive the woofers independently
Given that I can use miniDSP and REW to align and eq independently the 4 channels, do you see any problem with setting x/o at 270 (Revel F208 internal x/o), send it to miniDSP, then send back to Revel woofers and the other two subs?
Apologies ahead of time if there is a better place and way to ask this question.
Thanks again
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post #20427 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 08:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jjk43 View Post
Ok, thanks for taking a look.
Maybe I could ask you this slightly off-topic question...My Revel F208s measure flat down to about 35 Hz. Right now I am crossing over to 2 subs (JRiver BM). I feel like I am giving up some piston power (2x2 8 inch woofers) by crossing over at 80. The Revels are bi-amped so plenty of power to drive the woofers independently
Given that I can use miniDSP and REW to align and eq independently the 4 channels, do you see any problem with setting x/o at 270 (Revel F208 internal x/o), send it to miniDSP, then send back to Revel woofers and the other two subs?
Apologies ahead of time if there is a better place and way to ask this question.
Thanks again
How to handle capable mains is always an issue. My towers are rated -3dB at 30Hz, yet I cross over at 80 Hz to four sealed 15" subs. Regardless of how capable the mains are, multiple high-quality subs will always perform better.

And here is the real reason why. Mains are positioned in the listening room to provide the best imaging. Subs are placed to provide the smoothest bass and to minimize bass resonance. It is rare that mains that are also providing bass can be positioned to both optomize bass response and provide the best imaging. What usually happens is poor bass response. IMO, this is what is wrong with popular speakers like Definitive Technology and Golden Ears, with their built-in subs. No way to get good bass response and good imaging with drivers in the same cabinet.

As for how you are actually wiring things together, I have no specific advice.
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post #20428 of 20480 Old 09-11-2016, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjk43 View Post
Ok, thanks for taking a look.
Maybe I could ask you this slightly off-topic question...My Revel F208s measure flat down to about 35 Hz. Right now I am crossing over to 2 subs (JRiver BM). I feel like I am giving up some piston power (2x2 8 inch woofers) by crossing over at 80. The Revels are bi-amped so plenty of power to drive the woofers independently
Given that I can use miniDSP and REW to align and eq independently the 4 channels, do you see any problem with setting x/o at 270 (Revel F208 internal x/o), send it to miniDSP, then send back to Revel woofers and the other two subs?
Apologies ahead of time if there is a better place and way to ask this question.
Thanks again
My Mirage OMD-28s are good down to 18Hz in room. However, one full range sweep does not tell the entire story. If I start doing +5dB sweeps the distortion levels rise quickly. Your subs generally can play louder with less distortion.

Don't look at it like you are leaving something on the table by crossing mains over at 80Hz… you are actually gaining headroom/dynamic range [especially if you are using an AVR for amplification].
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post #20429 of 20480 Old 09-14-2016, 10:55 AM
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I had something odd happen last night while trying to measure my subs in REW. I'm using the HDMI connection and set it to output 8 which plays only through the subs (is that right?). I have the second output not selected so it should only be playing through output 8. What's happening is I'm getting the test tone out of both my right rear speaker and the subs. None of the other speakers are playing the tone with the subs except for the rear right surround. I turned off both subs and the rear surround still plays.

When I play pink noise through the receivers subwoofer channel level setting I get no noise out of the surround. I also get nothing out of the rear surround when I'm playing stereo music with the subs playing (x-over at 80hz).

The subwoofer cable runs under the house and through the wall with the right rear speaker cable, I thought at first maybe there was bleeding or a short, but it doesn't appear to effect anything but the REW test tone output.

Any ideas what the issue is?

My setup: Sonus Faber Venere 2.5 and center, Ascend HTM200SE surround, dual Rythmik L12's, Pioneer SC-95, Samsung PN60F8500
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post #20430 of 20480 Old 09-14-2016, 11:24 AM
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To measure just your subs use HDMI 4 not 8, that's your rear channel
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