Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 691 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #20701 of 23451 Old 11-11-2016, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
does this get easier when I grow up?
Yes.
Stay with it, and go through the Guide carefully.
We all started at the beginning. Just don't keep making the same mistakes over and over.
Our tolerance is pretty good for different mistakes, though.
Michael

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post #20702 of 23451 Old 11-11-2016, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Yes.
Our tolerance is pretty good for different mistakes, though.
True enough. Every time we think we've seen it all...

Practice practice practice. I can do a quick set of measurements that tell me something new in about 15minutes and 10 of that is trying to jack into the back of the preamp without scratching it. ;-) One of these days I'll liberate a laptop with HDMI...
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post #20703 of 23451 Old 11-11-2016, 09:56 PM
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Or just leave the cable plugged into the preamp.

Michael
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post #20704 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 08:12 AM
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Good morning gentlemen,
Time for my daily dose of humility. These graphs are left and right + sub with a 80hz crossover, dirac not engaged. Curious how to extract the data for building the sub crossover filters? do I run the filters as bass limited for the towers, full range, none etc.? I can drop box the .mdat if provided an address?

Thanks again
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post #20705 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 12:04 PM
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First Measurements

I just started using REW and took my first measurements today while th dog was at grooming. Thank you Jerry for your awesome guide
Here is my mdat file via dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ee4t88xm4t...80hz.mdat?dl=0

These were all taken with audyssey on and subs on. Everything is small with 80hz crossover. Dual SVS PB2000 subs on 1/4 front wall, (6)B&W685s2 fronts, sides, surrounds, and HTM61s2 center with AV8802a.
I noticed a dip around 80hz, could the sub tweak guide help me with that. Otherwise anything stand out as a problem. Also it is combination living room/ Theater, so treatments might be a no-go

Thanks for your help!
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post #20706 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 04:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
I just started using REW and took my first measurements today while th dog was at grooming. Thank you Jerry for your awesome guide
Here is my mdat file via dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/s/ee4t88xm4t...80hz.mdat?dl=0

These were all taken with audyssey on and subs on. Everything is small with 80hz crossover. Dual SVS PB2000 subs on 1/4 front wall, (6)B&W685s2 fronts, sides, surrounds, and HTM61s2 center with AV8802a.
I noticed a dip around 80hz, could the sub tweak guide help me with that. Otherwise anything stand out as a problem. Also it is combination living room/ Theater, so treatments might be a no-go

Thanks for your help!
Congratulations on your first set of measurements. You have followed the guidelines quite well.

HST, each of your front speakers is exhibiting a rather severe issue centered at 80Hz, as you already noted (and as shown below).. The highest priority should be to identify and resolve this issue. While the sub distance tweak may help alleviate the issue, there are several steps you could take.

1. Temporarily change the speakers to large and measure each speaker's response without the subs.
2. Return the speakers to small, output the test tone to the center speaker, and temporarily unplug the speaker. This will measure the subs only (15-300Hz).

These measurements will give a better idea of whether the dip is in the mains or the subs response. Once we have that data, steps to address the dip could be:

- Find a better position for the subs (assuming you have some freedom of placement).
- Make sure the two subs are properly aligned with each other (probably not an issue if they are equidistant from the MLP, and if you use Audyssey XT32).
- Make sure the combined sub signal is properly aligned with the mains (the sub distance tweak).

Can you provide the dimensions of your listening room?

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post #20707 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Good morning gentlemen,
Time for my daily dose of humility. These graphs are left and right + sub with a 80hz crossover, dirac not engaged. Curious how to extract the data for building the sub crossover filters? do I run the filters as bass limited for the towers, full range, none etc.? I can drop box the .mdat if provided an address?

Thanks again
The frequency response below 300Hz is way too uneven. What do you mean by "sub crossover filters"? Are you talking about using REW's EQ functionality to try and smooth the bass response? Based on the measurement you posted earlier, there are serious issues with the sub response and expecting REW's EQ to fix it would be completely unrealistic.



It should look more like this:




What sub do you have? Only one sub? You need to address the low end before doing anything else. It would be nice if we could see the same measurements with room EQ turned on to see how successful room EQ is.
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post #20708 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 04:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Congratulations on your first set of measurements. You have followed the guidelines quite well.

HST, each of your front speakers is exhibiting a rather severe issue centered at 80Hz, as you already noted (and as shown below).. The highest priority should be to identify and resolve this issue. While the sub distance tweak may help alleviate the issue, there are several steps you could take.

1. Temporarily change the speakers to large and measure each speaker's response without the subs.
2. Return the speakers to small, output the test tone to the center speaker, and temporarily unplug the speaker. This will measure the subs only (15-300Hz).

These measurements will give a better idea of whether the dip is in the mains or the subs response. Once we have that data, steps to address the dip could be:

- Find a better position for the subs (assuming you have some freedom of placement).
- Make sure the two subs are properly aligned with each other (probably not an issue if they are equidistant from the MLP, and if you use Audyssey XT32).
- Make sure the combined sub signal is properly aligned with the mains (the sub distance tweak).

Can you provide the dimensions of your listening room?

What's HST?

Thank you for your response, Jerry

I will do the measurements you requested tom and post mdat.

I have a crude drawing of the listening space. It's an open floor plan and will create challenges i know.
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post #20709 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 06:43 PM
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Yes to the bass with room eq, will run a set with dirac engaged when I get the xmc-1 back up. Seems to have bricked. The speakers and sub are Tekton Enzo's.
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post #20710 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Yes to the bass with room eq, will run a set with dirac engaged when I get the xmc-1 back up. Seems to have bricked. The speakers and sub are Tekton Enzo's.
One sub is obviously not cutting it. Read this:

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post #20711 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 07:14 PM
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Guess it's time to start saving sheckles for another sub, would you recommend buying a sub to match my current one? Will give Eric at Tekton a call and ask his thoughts. Thank you for your time and patience!
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post #20712 of 23451 Old 11-12-2016, 07:17 PM
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Guess it's time to start saving sheckles for another sub, would you recommend buying a sub to match my current one? Will give Eric at Tekton a call and ask his thoughts. Thank you for your time and patience!
I am not familiar with Tekton subs. There are certainly quite a few more well-known sub brands out there. HST, identical subs are easier to configure.
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post #20713 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 08:46 AM
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So, timing reference question.

My old laptop has both a mic in and a headphone jack and some USB ports. The headphone jack is used as output by REW. One of the USB ports is used by REW/UMIK as mic.

Would it be possible to use a USB DAC and the mic in to make a timing reference physical loopback? I do have these bits&bobs laying about but no cash for a better laptop.
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post #20714 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 08:48 AM
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The speakers and sub are Tekton Enzo's.
That Tekton speaker patent is interesting.
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post #20715 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 09:31 AM
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So, timing reference question.

My old laptop has both a mic in and a headphone jack and some USB ports. The headphone jack is used as output by REW. One of the USB ports is used by REW/UMIK as mic.

Would it be possible to use a USB DAC and the mic in to make a timing reference physical loopback? I do have these bits&bobs laying about but no cash for a better laptop.
do you mean to use the USB mic as the measurement mic? if so, you can't do a physical loopback using a USB mic.
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post #20716 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 09:44 AM
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do you mean to use the USB mic as the measurement mic? if so, you can't do a physical loopback using a USB mic.
No, no. Use the laptop's built in mic input (not the built-in mic) for the physical loopback. And use the RCA outputs from the USB DAC.
  • Measurement output signal from headphone jack.
  • Measurement input signal from USB mic.
  • Timing reference output to USB DAC.
  • Timing reference input from USB DAC outputs to mic input jack.

I suppose it would not change the above picture if I looped the headphone jack to the mic input jack and used the USB DAC for the measurement output signal.
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post #20717 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 09:59 AM
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Jerry, here is the new measurements you had requested

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kp45tun525...only.mdat?dl=0
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post #20718 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by artur9 View Post
No, no. Use the laptop's built in mic input (not the built-in mic) for the physical loopback. And use the RCA outputs from the USB DAC.
  • Measurement output signal from headphone jack.
  • Measurement input signal from USB mic.
  • Timing reference output to USB DAC.
  • Timing reference input from USB DAC outputs to mic input jack.

I suppose it would not change the above picture if I looped the headphone jack to the mic input jack and used the USB DAC for the measurement output signal.
You need to use the same ad/da, or rather ad/da which are synced to the same clock, when doing a physical loopback. This means a single clock source for the output and the two inputs.
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post #20719 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 12:27 PM
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Always interesting, enjoy talking with Eric. He talked me into the Enzo's and out of the dragons, said they would be overkill in my room! Now that Jerry says the Enzo sub isn't cutting it i may have to reconsider. The adventure continues:relaxed:
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post #20720 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 03:00 PM
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Always interesting, enjoy talking with Eric. He talked me into the Enzo's and out of the dragons, said they would be overkill in my room! Now that Jerry says the Enzo sub isn't cutting it i may have to reconsider. The adventure continues:relaxed:
I said the sub isn't performing well, but did not attribute the poor performance to the Enzo. I know nothing about your brand of sub. I assume that the performance is a combination of less than ideal placement, and the fact that you have only one sub. Multiple subs can make a dramatic improvement, as long as you find the right placement. If you plan on additional subs, getting another of the same kind would be the least expensive approach.
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post #20721 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 03:25 PM
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Jerry, here is the new measurements you had requested

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kp45tun525...only.mdat?dl=0
Something is going on that I can't quite figure out. First of all, the sub response is actually quite good.



However, the individual mains measurements are not great. Note that you can combine two measurements in REW using trace arithmetic. However, when I do this, I am not getting the same results as the measurements you provided earlier.








For example, the summed Right+subs is much better than the measured result from earlier. I am trying to understand the differences--anyone else have a theory?
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post #20722 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 04:08 PM
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Apologies Jerry, seem to be misinterpreting alot recently. Sub placement is in the front left corner, may be able to move it inside the left speaker but those are about my only options, all suggestions appreciated?
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Apologies Jerry, seem to be misinterpreting alot recently. Sub placement is in the front left corner, may be able to move it inside the left speaker but those are about my only options, all suggestions appreciated?
Now that you are becoming used to REW, experiment with all potential sub placements and measure the results. Remember to measure with room correction off, since correction changes when things are moved around. A second sub is still your best option for improvement.
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post #20724 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 04:33 PM
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Thanks, will be back in touch as soon as I can get my xmc-1 unbricked:neutral_face:
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Sub placement is in the front left corner, may be able to move it inside the left speaker but those are about my only options, all suggestions appreciated?
Are you familiar with the sub crawl procedure?

You may not be able to use some of the placements you find but knowing the best places for the sub is handy information nonetheless.
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post #20726 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 07:19 PM
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Hey guys, I'm getting ready to start taking measurements of my setup. I've printed out & gone over Jerry's awesome guide. At the risk of sounding like a complete fool, I cannot seem to find how to take just a sub measurement...Is it just a matter of disconnecting my main speakers from my amp? Please forgive me if this has been mentioned in the guide but I couldn't seem to find it.

Thanks so much guys!!!
Carmine.
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Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
Hey guys, I'm getting ready to start taking measurements of my setup. I've printed out & gone over Jerry's awesome guide. At the risk of sounding like a complete fool, I cannot seem to find how to take just a sub measurement...Is it just a matter of disconnecting my main speakers from my amp? Please forgive me if this has been mentioned in the guide but I couldn't seem to find it.

Thanks so much guys!!!
Carmine.
There are two ways:

1. Output the REW test signal to HDMI4 (the LFE channel). Note that the test signal on the LFE channel is output at a +10dB level, so lower the AVR master volume to compensate.

2. Output the signal to the center channel and temporarily disconnect the center channel wire, or turn off the amp driving that channel. The center channel should be set to "small" so that low frequencies are routed to the sub.
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post #20728 of 23451 Old 11-13-2016, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
There are two ways:

1. Output the REW test signal to HDMI4 (the LFE channel). Note that the test signal on the LFE channel is output at a +10dB level, so lower the AVR master volume to compensate.

2. Output the signal to the center channel and temporarily disconnect the center channel wire, or turn off the amp driving that channel. The center channel should be set to "small" so that low frequencies are routed to the sub.
Thanks so much Jerry!!! Greatly appreciate all the work you've put into compiling the guide. I'll post my .mdat once I take my measurements tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how my system is interacting with my room
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post #20729 of 23451 Old 11-14-2016, 05:20 AM
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Originally Posted by carminepesce View Post
Thanks so much Jerry!!! Greatly appreciate all the work you've put into compiling the guide. I'll post my .mdat once I take my measurements tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing how my system is interacting with my room
One small but perhaps significant suggestion to Jerry's recommendation would be to also raise the crossover setting to the highest value; otherwise, once you've set the speakers to small, bass management is engaged and your sub output will be limited by your crossover.
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post #20730 of 23451 Old 11-14-2016, 05:55 AM
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I am, and I haven't tried it due to lack of available spots for the sub and its 100lb load. Think I will give it a try though and run some measurements, don't trust my ears to know good sound. Could somebody post a graph of a good looking sub?
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