Simplified REW Setup and Use (USB Mic & HDMI Connection) Including Measurement Techniques and How To Interpret Graphs - Page 693 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #20761 of 20787 Old 11-27-2016, 01:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FargateOne View Post
Thank you Austin.
I was not sure about how to cure the uneven frequency response and you confirm that more treatment is not the best way.

About Dirac Live, I have nanoAvr-DL (you know...bass management after EQing thing...supposed to be bad!). I tried only a couple of time Dirac for my 2 front mains only (stereo, no sub, speakers set to large in the receiver) and , until now, I am not happy with the auto target curve. I know the procedure using text files to create my own target with DL but I do not know what to change to get better sound. I tried to make some changes somewhere on the curve but doing worst than no EQ at all. ( low fr coming boomy, lost details in higher fr, shift in sound stage image etc) . Without guidance it is a long process of trial and error.

On the other hand, I must say that Dirac Live works very very well for my 5.1 setup for movies: the best sound I ever had particularly since I've reduced dratically the reflections with bass traps.

BTW, thank you again for your REW step-by-step guide!
I agree that the Dirac implementation in the NanoAVR is flawed. Have you considered switching to the 88A?

If you want to develop a custom curve, you might find the guide linked in my sig useful.
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post #20762 of 20787 Old 11-28-2016, 06:58 PM
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I did some measurements moving the center channel at diff distances from wall. My range is min 15" from face of speaker to wall and max 42" from wall. Looks like 21" looked best?

mdat:https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4274wo3a7...eaks.mdat?dl=0


I also did some the sub tweak. Audyssey default was 15.5ft for both subs. I did measurements at 14.5-8.5 and 16.5-23.5. The three best ones look like 1=22.5 2=20.5 3=11.5. What do you think and did I do it right?

mdat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1a8pjz11is...weak.mdat?dl=0
Thanks!
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post #20763 of 20787 Old 11-28-2016, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
I agree that the Dirac implementation in the NanoAVR is flawed.
I know it is not the thread for this, but I think that the flaws in NanoAvr-DL are much less a problem in room of smal dimensions like mine (3 500 cubefeet more or less) than in larger room.

Quote:
Have you considered switching to the 88A?
My Rotel is an integrated amp with rca inputs for 8 channels and my Cambridge CXU player can do bass management BUT I do not think that I will survive longtime if the Significative Other knew that I would want to buy 1K device after already spent 549$ for nanoAvr-DL.

Quote:
If you want to develop a custom curve, you might find the guide linked in my sig useful.
Thank, I will take a look at it.

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Bis Audio cables and power bar from the wall to the receiver
My room:15'4" x 11' 6" x 7'6" tv near the center of the long side wall
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post #20764 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 04:07 PM
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I would like to do some measurements of my room to get a base line before I fill the cavity behind the screen wall with insulation. Trying to see the impact (good, bad or indifferent) of filling


What measurements are best to reflect this?
Typically I do the usual 8 and then LCR with subs.... 11 in total


I noticed on the first page that it is best to have a waterfall measurement that incorporates the LR and subs but I am unaware of a way to select this in REW.... just the 8 individual HDMI selections????



Also why is it recommended to turn of room correction if you are tying to measure the performance of the room??

Any assistance appreciated

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Last edited by Waterboy77; 11-29-2016 at 04:10 PM. Reason: another question
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post #20765 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 04:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
I would like to do some measurements of my room to get a base line before I fill the cavity behind the screen wall with insulation. Trying to see the impact (good, bad or indifferent) of filling


What measurements are best to reflect this?
Typically I do the usual 8 and then LCR with subs.... 11 in total


I noticed on the first page that it is best to have a waterfall measurement that incorporates the LR and subs but I am unaware of a way to select this in REW.... just the 8 individual HDMI selections????



Also why is it recommended to turn of room correction if you are tying to measure the performance of the room??

Any assistance appreciated
To measure L+R+Subs, output the test signal to HDMI1 and HDMI2. Make sure the speakers are set to Small in the AVR, with crossover (80Hz is good). The subs receive the bass signal by virtue of bass management. Insulation behind the screen is likely to have the most effect in the low frequencies, which is what I expect your objective is.

Measuring the surrounds is not that important.
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post #20766 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
To measure L+R+Subs, output the test signal to HDMI1 and HDMI2. Make sure the speakers are set to Small in the AVR, with crossover (80Hz is good). The subs receive the bass signal by virtue of bass management. Insulation behind the screen is likely to have the most effect in the low frequencies, which is what I expect your objective is.

Measuring the surrounds is not that important.
Hi Jerry, attached is the measure screen, I don't see a way to select two outputs....??
Yes speakers are small and XO is 100Hz
Yes insulation for low fequencies and potential resonating... due to front wall construction
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post #20767 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Hi Jerry, attached is the measure screen, I don't see a way to select two outputs....??
Yes speakers are small and XO is 100Hz
Yes insulation for low fequencies and potential resonating... due to front wall construction
Is that an old version of REW? The current version is v5.17 beta 9. The output screen is shown on page 63 of the REW Guide. Latest version of REW can be downloaded here: http://roomeqwizard.com/installers/.
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post #20768 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Is that an old version of REW? The current version is v5.17 beta 9. The output screen is shown on page 63 of the REW Guide. Latest version of REW can be downloaded here: http://roomeqwizard.com/installers/.
Yup It's 5.16 with JRE
I now see there is a newer guide also....... my things seem to change quickly

Thanks
I will return when I get up to date and do some re-reading

Previous question that I am still curious about....
"Also why is it recommended to turn of room correction if you are trying to measure the performance of the room??"

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post #20769 of 20787 Old 11-29-2016, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Yup It's 5.16 with JRE
Previous question that I am still curious about....
"Also why is it recommended to turn of room correction if you are trying to measure the performance of the room??"
The idea is to improve the room's "native" response before icing the cake with room correction.

IOW, for example, try to make the sub response as flat as possible and then use Audyssey or other to flatten it even more.
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post #20770 of 20787 Old 11-30-2016, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinJerry View Post
Is that an old version of REW? The current version is v5.17 beta 9.
Actually, it's 12, and it's here:
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/beta.html
Michael

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post #20771 of 20787 Old 11-30-2016, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Actually, it's 12, and it's here:
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/beta.html
Michael
Yes when I checked for updates via REW beta 12 came up

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post #20772 of 20787 Old 11-30-2016, 09:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Actually, it's 12, and it's here:
http://www.roomeqwizard.com/beta.html
Michael
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Yes when I checked for updates via REW beta 12 came up
I always attempt to provide good information here, and appreciate LastButNotLeast keeping me honest. I neglected to see that the list of available updates, when sorted alphabetically, places updates later than beta 9 at the top of the list.

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post #20773 of 20787 Old 12-01-2016, 04:31 PM
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Jerry,

If you could please have a look at post #20762 when you have spare time. I wanted to see if I was doing things right.
Thanks
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Base dB level of measurement

How do you know the base dB level of a sweep to see how high and low the dips are?
As I understand it if my AVR is set to 0dB (Reference Level) and the measurement sweep is at -12 dB, is the base level at 93 dB (105dB - -12dB)? If AVR is at -5dB than base is 87dB (105- 12dB - 5).
Thanks
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post #20775 of 20787 Old 12-01-2016, 04:57 PM
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Jerry,

If you could please have a look at post #20762 when you have spare time. I wanted to see if I was doing things right.
Thanks
Yes, later this evening.
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post #20776 of 20787 Old 12-01-2016, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
I did some measurements moving the center channel at diff distances from wall. My range is min 15" from face of speaker to wall and max 42" from wall. Looks like 21" looked best?

mdat:https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4274wo3a7...eaks.mdat?dl=0


I also did some the sub tweak. Audyssey default was 15.5ft for both subs. I did measurements at 14.5-8.5 and 16.5-23.5. The three best ones look like 1=22.5 2=20.5 3=11.5. What do you think and did I do it right?

mdat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/1a8pjz11is...weak.mdat?dl=0
Thanks!
Not Jerry, but I took a look.

I think 15" off the wall looks just a bit better than 21". You get a bit more SPL in the 50-150hz range.

The sub distance of 20.5' looks best to me. There is a large peak at 128hz though that is present in all of the CC+subs measurements that isn't there in the CC only measurements...must be induced by the subs. Have you measured the subs alone and is that peak from their response? If so, you may be able to bring that down with sub placement.

My $.02.
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post #20777 of 20787 Old 12-01-2016, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MBrown2020 View Post
How do you know the base dB level of a sweep to see how high and low the dips are?
As I understand it if my AVR is set to 0dB (Reference Level) and the measurement sweep is at -12 dB, is the base level at 93 dB (105dB - -12dB)? If AVR is at -5dB than base is 87dB (105- 12dB - 5).
Thanks
Yes, should be.

Pick a measurement, click on the Spectrogram tab, and then click Generate. The measurement peak is shown on the right of the screen.
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post #20778 of 20787 Old 12-01-2016, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
Not Jerry, but I took a look.

I think 15" off the wall looks just a bit better than 21". You get a bit more SPL in the 50-150hz range.

The sub distance of 20.5' looks best to me. There is a large peak at 128hz though that is present in all of the CC+subs measurements that isn't there in the CC only measurements...must be induced by the subs. Have you measured the subs alone and is that peak from their response? If so, you may be able to bring that down with sub placement.

My $.02.
Thanks for giving it a look. The sub response does not have a peak at 128hz when measuring alone. The crossover for all speakers is at 80hz so I would think something with the center channel must be making it.

The 15" off the wall had more dips between 200-300 hz though, which I would think would be bad
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Hello,
Took new measurements today after running audyssey pro with av8802a. I took measurements of all three front left, right, and center speakers to get the smoothest response I could get with the speaker placement constraints. I found that putting in the foam port plugs helped with the front speakers bass response lowering all the peaks from 90-200hz somewhat. I also did the sub tweak and found that the distance of subs from default 15' to 21' had pretty smooth response. The left and right response alone look not so great, but the l+r and the center I thought looked pretty good without any treatments. What do you think?

mdat: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mdljh7yrg5...inal.mdat?dl=0
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post #20780 of 20787 Old 12-05-2016, 07:59 AM
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I am on strike since 6 weeks and it will continue.
After doing my daily picketing hours, I have spent the rest of the first days on strike to read about room treatment.

Everybody agee here to say that after to buy good equipment and good speakers and after to place them at the best place possible, the next step for a good SS&I is treatment long before to buy a PEQ (audyssey, YPAO, minidsp).

Like many, I bought an EQ device first hoping that it will do miracles.

Thanks to this strike I have decided to try to built bass traps (to buy those during a strike would have been a cause for divorce!!). I must say that the places available are rare due to waf. But she let me go into the rabbit hole at one condition: do not move the furniture.

My room is small (see my system) . Where ceiling joins walls, I can put some traps on the front and the back walls jonction but not on the jonction with the left and right side walls. For corners, only 2 are available. For the jonction between floor and wall, I had only the place behind the fronts speakers and a little at the right side wall and at the back wall. Finally in the vertical jonction with 2 walls, only one (the back right side corner) could be treated and not entirely.

90 hours later more or less, 12 traps are in place. They are of various dimensions choosen by the place that I have not by the sound science ( if I understood well it must be a relation between the trap dimensions and the sound waves to treat). Some are 24 inches X 16 inches, others are 26 inches X 32 inches and others are 12 X 36. All made of wood for the frame, jute for the fabric and Roxul Safe'Nsound at least 3 inches thick and more where possible.

Now, the basses ( 15hz to 300hz) decay of 20db in the first 300ms and 80% decay below the noise floor after 450ms.

BUT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE SOUND IS BREATHTAKING!!!

The difference is near as great as the difference between my 5 PSB alpha series speakers and my B&W!!!!

It is difficult to believe!

Also, now, a little change of not more than 8 cm between fronts and 4 cm in the distance from the front wall make easily audible changes in SS&I. Also, changing the toeing by a few degrees is audible etc.
...and all changes are measurables!

Of course, I do not have perfect resoiknse curves but it is the best I ever had and the best I can for the moment.

Thanks to all of you experts here and a special thanks to JohnM for REW.
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/BD player Cambridge CXU/ set-top (cable box) rented from cable co.
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post #20781 of 20787 Old Yesterday, 06:58 PM
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Some REW measurements

Left and Right With Subs showing with and without Audyssey


Waterfall with Audyssey


Waterfall without Audyssey


Captured these with the intent of comparing before and after insulation behind the screen wall

Thoughts?
More?
Different ones?

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post #20782 of 20787 Old Today, 08:10 AM
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Latest run. Advice on bass traps, type and where to locate, as well as any other interpretations please. Both of these are left, right and sub with a xover at 110hz
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post #20783 of 20787 Old Today, 08:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waterboy77 View Post
Some REW measurements
Thoughts?
I would play with toe-in of the front speakers to try to address the drop at 200Hz.
Michael

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Latest run. Advice on bass traps, type and where to locate, as well as any other interpretations please.
Waterfall or spectrogram better to evaluate need for bass traps.
Post your room layout; mdat file would be helpful, too.
Michael

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foggy1 View Post
Latest run. Advice on bass traps, type and where to locate, as well as any other interpretations please. Both of these are left, right and sub with a xover at 110hz
You need to address the smoothness of the frequency response. Likely solutions include finding a better spot for the sub, adding more subs, or adding automated room correction, in that order. Bass traps address resonance, which is measured by the waterfall graph.
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post #20786 of 20787 Old Today, 10:01 AM
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Tried sub in the corner and currently have it appx 1/3 of the front wall, not many other options. Hoping not to have to add a another sub, but may try that out. Will run rew filters and dirac as the final step but would rather implement room treatments first Including waterfall, .mdat, and room layout files. What I have read indicates using room correction after finalizing other options, is that correct?https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rx02tx8zf...12-5.mdat?dl=0
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post #20787 of 20787 Old Today, 12:42 PM
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Quote:
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Tried sub in the corner and currently have it appx 1/3 of the front wall, not many other options. Hoping not to have to add a another sub, but may try that out. Will run rew filters and dirac as the final step but would rather implement room treatments first Including waterfall, .mdat, and room layout files. What I have read indicates using room correction after finalizing other options, is that correct?https://www.dropbox.com/s/6rx02tx8zf...12-5.mdat?dl=0
Yes, that order is correct. But the point I was trying to make earlier is that treatments may not help much with smoothing out the response curve.
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